Italy's interior minister says EU trying to 'swindle' Britain - Sunday Times

[webfact]

Italy's interior minister says EU trying to 'swindle' Britain - Sunday Times

 

FILE PHOTO: Italy's Matteo Salvini attends a news conference about a trilateral meeting, during an informal meeting of EU Home Affairs Ministers in Innsbruck, Austria, July 12, 2018. REUTERS/Lisi Niesner/File Photo

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Italy's far-right interior minister, Matteo Salvini, has accused the European Union of trying to cheat Britain out of the Brexit it voted for, according to extracts from a newspaper interview published late on Saturday.

 

"There is no objectivity or good faith from the European side," Salvini was quoted as saying in an interview with Britain's Sunday Times newspaper.

 

"My experience in the European parliament tells me you either impose yourself or they swindle you," he added.

 

Britain is due to leave the EU on March 29 next year, and Prime Minister Theresa May is struggling to agree a long-term trading relationship with the bloc or to finalise a transitional deal to cover the period immediately after Britain leaves.

 

Salvini told May to stick to her principles and be prepared to walk away from the bloc without a deal - something many businesses fear could lead to chaos.

 

"On some principles there is no need to be flexible and you should not go backwards," he said.

 

Separately, the newspaper cited an unnamed government minister as saying that Britain's army would be ready to deliver food and medicine if there were delays at ports after Brexit.

 

"There is a lot of civil contingency planning around the prospect of no deal. That's not frightening the horses, that's just being utterly realistic," the minister said.

 

Supermarkets, including German-owned Aldi, were also asking some suppliers to hold extra stocks of goods such as tea and coffee, the newspaper reported, citing a supplier.

 

Salvini has long had a hostile attitude to the EU, and has blamed the euro for Italy's prolonged economic malaise and said he expected it to collapse.

 

More recently, he has pressed other EU countries to take more of the African migrants who try to land on Italy's shores.

 

(Reporting by David Milliken; Editing by Sandra Maler)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-07-30

[Guest]

 

Quote

 

Matteo Salvini praises Putin ahead of Russia trip

Matteo Salvini, Italy’s interior minister, said he was aiming to travel to Russia to meet President Vladimir Putin in what would be the latest strengthening of ties between Russia and European populist politicians.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/5b3fc72e-8348-11e8-96dd-fa565ec55929

 

Matteo is just one of the Putin's little dolls, who dance to him for money. There is no surprise he tries to break the EU unity. 

 

Traitor alike Marine Le Pen, Nigel Farage,  Trump, ... 

 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

 

Quote

 

Salvini Hints at EU Vetoes Unless Sanctions on Russia Are Eased

 

Italy’s deputy prime minister, Matteo Salvini, said he will push the European Union to ease sanctions on Russia and threatened to block the EU’s agenda if he doesn’t get his way.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-16/salvini-hints-at-eu-vetoes-unless-sanctions-on-russia-are-eased

 

 

 

[canopus1969]

And so he (and any other right minded person) should try and break the present EU set up – nothing but an expensive waste of money 

Well done the UK for seeing it for what it is and getting out  !

[puck2]

Italy's lira was nearly as useful as toilet paper before it joined the Euro. And they have been happy and lucky to be able to join the €. Lira had lost value year by year.

 

The Italian right wings should clean their own pig stall before giving advice to other countries. It seems the minister has a short memory..., if at all.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/blog/2016/dec/05/italy-euro-economy-competitiveness

 

On New Year’s Day in 2002, Italians gathered in Rome to throw their lire into the Trevi fountain. There were celebrations as Italians took possession of the new euro notes and coins that became legal tender as the clocks struck midnight.

But hopes that the advent of the single currency would provide a fresh start for Italy’s economy were misplaced. The growth performance of the eurozone as a whole has been poor, but Italy’s has been dismal. Greece and Spain at least had booms before their painful busts; Germany and France have managed to claw back the ground lost in the deep recession of 2008-09.

But national output per head in Italy is only 4% higher than it was 15 years ago. The economy is still smaller than it was in 2008. Unemployment is at 11.6%, labour market participation is low, and its birthrate in 2014 was the lowest since the modern Italian state was founded in 1861. If there was a contest for the unwanted title of the sick man of Europe in the 21st century, Italy would walk it. < ….....>

 

If you once had to deal with Italy's monster-bureaucracy then you know why. In contrast to this sick „monster“ the people are gracious and charming. Big contrast, and you ask yourself why is this possible. But extreme right wing seems to be modern style.

Edited July 30, 2018 by puck2

[JAG]

2 hours ago, oilinki said:

 

https://www.ft.com/content/5b3fc72e-8348-11e8-96dd-fa565ec55929

 

Matteo is just one of the Putin's little dolls, who dance to him for money. There is no surprise he tries to break the EU unity. 

 

Traitor alike Marine Le Pen, Nigel Farage,  Trump, ... 

 

A traitor to what exactly? His country, in whose government he is an elected (note that word, because it seems to have no traction in your beloved European Union) minister, or a traitor to the government of the EU, a government for which neither he ( nor anyone else in Italy -or anywhere else for that matter) has ever had the to chance to elect, a government which is unaccountable to any electorate, and which cannot be elected or ejected by any electorate.

Edited July 30, 2018 by JAG

[sirmud63]

[Andrew65]

35 minutes ago, puck2 said:

Italy's lira was nearly as useful as toilet paper before it joined the Euro. And they have been happy and lucky to be able to join the €. Lira had lost value year by year.

 

The Italian right wings should clean their own pig stall before giving advice to other countries. It seems the minister has a short memory..., if at all.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/blog/2016/dec/05/italy-euro-economy-competitiveness

 

On New Year’s Day in 2002, Italians gathered in Rome to throw their lire into the Trevi fountain. There were celebrations as Italians took possession of the new euro notes and coins that became legal tender as the clocks struck midnight.

But hopes that the advent of the single currency would provide a fresh start for Italy’s economy were misplaced. The growth performance of the eurozone as a whole has been poor, but Italy’s has been dismal. Greece and Spain at least had booms before their painful busts; Germany and France have managed to claw back the ground lost in the deep recession of 2008-09.

But national output per head in Italy is only 4% higher than it was 15 years ago. The economy is still smaller than it was in 2008. Unemployment is at 11.6%, labour market participation is low, and its birthrate in 2014 was the lowest since the modern Italian state was founded in 1861. If there was a contest for the unwanted title of the sick man of Europe in the 21st century, Italy would walk it. < ….....>

 

If you once had to deal with Italy's monster-bureaucracy then you know why. In contrast to this sick „monster“ the people are gracious and charming. Big contrast, and you ask yourself why is this possible. But extreme right wing seems to be modern style.

I'll start by saying that I like Germany and have spent a lot of time there. However, as far as the Euro goes, I believe An independent "New DeutschMark" would be worth about 50% more than the Euro. It's enriched Germany at the expense of the PIGS countries, who have been economically on their knees, probably still are, if the truth's known.

 

Another thing, as an old friend always says, if you have your own currency you need never to go bankrupt. Part of Greeces' problem was that they were beholden to foreign powers when they're economy went tits-up, and yes, I know that pre-Euro their economy was also a basket-case, rather like that of Italy et-al.

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, puck2 said:

Italy's lira was nearly as useful as toilet paper before it joined the Euro. And they have been happy and lucky to be able to join the €. Lira had lost value year by year.

 

The Italian right wings should clean their own pig stall before giving advice to other countries. It seems the minister has a short memory..., if at all.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/blog/2016/dec/05/italy-euro-economy-competitiveness

 

On New Year’s Day in 2002, Italians gathered in Rome to throw their lire into the Trevi fountain. There were celebrations as Italians took possession of the new euro notes and coins that became legal tender as the clocks struck midnight.

But hopes that the advent of the single currency would provide a fresh start for Italy’s economy were misplaced. The growth performance of the eurozone as a whole has been poor, but Italy’s has been dismal. Greece and Spain at least had booms before their painful busts; Germany and France have managed to claw back the ground lost in the deep recession of 2008-09.

But national output per head in Italy is only 4% higher than it was 15 years ago. The economy is still smaller than it was in 2008. Unemployment is at 11.6%, labour market participation is low, and its birthrate in 2014 was the lowest since the modern Italian state was founded in 1861. If there was a contest for the unwanted title of the sick man of Europe in the 21st century, Italy would walk it. < ….....>

 

If you once had to deal with Italy's monster-bureaucracy then you know why. In contrast to this sick „monster“ the people are gracious and charming. Big contrast, and you ask yourself why is this possible. But extreme right wing seems to be modern style.

You seem to be confused about what currency is and what it isn't. Currency is not stocks, They are not shares in the economy. So it doesn't really matter how much the individual lira is worth. What matters is how many you have and how many you earn and what their purchasing power is. If you look at the GDP per capita in Italy it is virtually a straight line of growth from 1960 until the economic crisis of 2009. 

https://tradingeconomics.com/italy/gdp-per-capita

I don't see any improvement at all in its economic fortunes after the adoption of the euro. What I do see is a very prolonged slump after the crisis. And a big reason for this is that Italy was not allowed to engage in stimulative spending unlike the USA to make up for the shortfall in demand. And the reason Italy wasn't allowed was because of the EURO. Italy doesn't control its own currency. So it is still suffering through a slow recovery nearly 10 years after the collapse. It's taking some nations in the Eurozone longer to recover from the Great Recession than it did to recover from the Great Depression. Mostly because it's an economic straitjacket in bad times and partly that's because the Euro is also functioning as a subsidy for the German economy. Making Germany's exports cheaper and more competitive against other less prosperous Euro nations than they would be if Germany was still on the Deutschmark..

Edited July 30, 2018 by bristolboy

[citybiker]

Tell it how it is, the EU have been outed & fair play to the Italian gent for speaking out.

At least someone has a spine...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DoctorG]

Just leave it all to the great negotiator May. She will fix it.

 

?

[Andrew65]

2 minutes ago, DoctorG said:

Just leave it all to the great negotiator May. She will fix it.

 

?

I know what you mean, but no one else has done this before, so it's hard to know how someone else would do?!

 

May, or May not!??

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, JAG said:

A traitor to what exactly? His country, in whose government he is an elected (note that word, because it seems to have no traction in your beloved European Union) minister, or a traitor to the government of the EU, a government for which neither he ( nor anyone else in Italy -or anywhere else for that matter) has ever had the to chance to elect, a government which is unaccountable to any electorate, and which cannot be elected or ejected by any electorate.

 

Regardless of his political views and relationships, he makes a valid comment. The behavior of the EU and its negotiator has hardly been conducive to a friendly break up. The appointment of Barnier a French politician with a known dislike for Britain sounded warning bells. His style is to say "Non", threaten and demand Britain makes offers which he then belittles.

 

This Italian is the whistle blower for what we all know is happening. The EU have been trying to swindle and cheat all along. 

 

However, people across the EU do get a chance to vote for MEP's who should represent them. The EU President, the drunk Juncker is appointed by the elected heads of all member states. If you remember Cameron was very against his appointment but dear old Angela backed him and coerced support.

 

The problem is with people like Herr Schauebler who said just before Brexit when asked about "ever closer EU integration"  - "Elections mustn't be allowed to change things". That shows the real mentality of many of those elected to 'represent" the people. 

 

The EU will become like a big global corporation. Run by the "executive board" and with shareholders i.e. the electorate becoming more and more remote from the ability to influence those decisions.

[anon537687643]

 

 

Matteo Salvini praises Putin ahead of Russia trip

Matteo Salvini, Italy’s interior minister, said he was aiming to travel to Russia to meet President Vladimir Putin in what would be the latest strengthening of ties between Russia and European populist politicians.
 

https://www.ft.com/content/5b3fc72e-8348-11e8-96dd-fa565ec55929
 
Matteo is just one of the Putin's little dolls, who dance to him for money. There is no surprise he tries to break the EU unity. 
 
Traitor alike Marine Le Pen, Nigel Farage,  Trump, ... 
 

EU unity ? Haahahahahahahahahahahahaha


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Andrew65]

12 minutes ago, markaoffy said:

https://www.ft.com/content/5b3fc72e-8348-11e8-96dd-fa565ec55929
 
Matteo is just one of the Putin's little dolls, who dance to him for money. There is no surprise he tries to break the EU unity. 
 
Traitor alike Marine Le Pen, Nigel Farage,  Trump, ... 
 

EU unity ? Haahahahahahahahahahahahaha


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Or Tsipras, who I'm sure has been bought & paid for by Brussels.

[puck2]

IFrom:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-06-01/italy-s-extraordinary-146-billion-project

 

….... And yet, Italy’s sovereign debt is among the world’s largest. Investors and the rest of the euro zone will be watching intently when the new government presents its first budget in the autumn. Expect tensions. Italy’s financial constraints will inevitably bite and the two parties will squabble over what pet projects to prioritize.

 

@bristolboy - # 9 - , you should think twice before writing such a nons...e.

• And you seem to be confused what a sovereign debt is or not.

• And you seem to be confused about the €-currency or not. The value of the €-currency depends on many factors. One of them is the budget of the EU members. The € has lost a lot of value because of the PIGS (Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain) states budget problems. Their main problem was the excessive national debt. And Italy was and is (under the new government) on the way of the Greeks. That means going bankrupt.

• If You think there was no justified reason for the EU to put the foot on the brakes of Italy's national debt, then I question your mental health. GDP alone is not an indicator for the real health of a state. Italy has been a problematic state for many, many years. Should the EU pay again for an idiotic debt policy?

• Maybe you don't know Italy has a lot of unsolved problems. In a nutshell: in general weak fundamentals in the economy – look at #5- guardian website-; shadow economy, (illegal) tax avoidance. Many, many banks with bad loans (Unicredit – 77 billion €,  for example)

• High levels of corruption, criminality, and inefficiencies in the country’s bureaucratic and banking systems are additional problems in Italy. None of these problems will be solved by exiting the euro and in many ways leaving the single currency could achieve the opposite result. From: http://www.bin-italia.org/italys-economic-problems-are-not-caused-by-the-euro-but-by-the-countrys-chaotic-political-system/If you think „And a big reason for this is that Italy was not allowed to engage in stimulative spending unlike the USA to make up for the shortfall in demand. And the reason Italy wasn't allowed was because of the EURO.“     then you are very naive. Stimulus programs are somewhat controversial. What worked in the USA, must not work in Italy. Different background, see above. All these mentioned negatives gave the reason for the EU to put the foot on the brake.

• The EURO was not the problem, but Italy itself.

 

Edited July 30, 2018 by puck2

[wolf81]

11 hours ago, puck2 said:

Italy's lira was nearly as useful as toilet paper before it joined the Euro. And they have been happy and lucky to be able to join the €. Lira had lost value year by year.

 

The Italian right wings should clean their own pig stall before giving advice to other countries. It seems the minister has a short memory..., if at all.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/blog/2016/dec/05/italy-euro-economy-competitiveness

 

On New Year’s Day in 2002, Italians gathered in Rome to throw their lire into the Trevi fountain. There were celebrations as Italians took possession of the new euro notes and coins that became legal tender as the clocks struck midnight.

But hopes that the advent of the single currency would provide a fresh start for Italy’s economy were misplaced. The growth performance of the eurozone as a whole has been poor, but Italy’s has been dismal. Greece and Spain at least had booms before their painful busts; Germany and France have managed to claw back the ground lost in the deep recession of 2008-09.

But national output per head in Italy is only 4% higher than it was 15 years ago. The economy is still smaller than it was in 2008. Unemployment is at 11.6%, labour market participation is low, and its birthrate in 2014 was the lowest since the modern Italian state was founded in 1861. If there was a contest for the unwanted title of the sick man of Europe in the 21st century, Italy would walk it. < ….....>

 

If you once had to deal with Italy's monster-bureaucracy then you know why. In contrast to this sick „monster“ the people are gracious and charming. Big contrast, and you ask yourself why is this possible. But extreme right wing seems to be modern style.

Having one's own currency has some big advantages, but the most important one for the Southern European countries would be that a country could devalue the currency to increase exports and reduce imports. In this way it's easier to protect the market of your country. A currency that would devalue often would also cause lenders to ask more rent on loans, which would reduce the loans taken by people and institutions.

 

Since these Southern European countries joined the Euro, the lenders felt more safe to lend large amounts of money while asking low rent, knowing that if there would be problems, al of the Eurozone would be forced to bail out, since the Euro project is too big to fail. At the same time it makes recovery of the economy of these Southern European countries much harder, since they can't reduce imports (which would come at a cost of Northern European countries) and increase exports (which would help create jobs). 

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, puck2 said:

IFrom:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-06-01/italy-s-extraordinary-146-billion-project

 

….... And yet, Italy’s sovereign debt is among the world’s largest. Investors and the rest of the euro zone will be watching intently when the new government presents its first budget in the autumn. Expect tensions. Italy’s financial constraints will inevitably bite and the two parties will squabble over what pet projects to prioritize.

 

@bristolboy - # 9 - , you should think twice before writing such a nons...e.

• And you seem to be confused what a sovereign debt is or not.

• And you seem to be confused about the €-currency or not. The value of the €-currency depends on many factors. One of them is the budget of the EU members. The € has lost a lot of value because of the PIGS (Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain) states budget problems. Their main problem was the excessive national debt. And Italy was and is (under the new government) on the way of the Greeks. That means going bankrupt.

• If You think there was no justified reason for the EU to put the foot on the brakes of Italy's national debt, then I question your mental health. GDP alone is not an indicator for the real health of a state. Italy has been a problematic state for many, many years. Should the EU pay again for an idiotic debt policy?

• Maybe you don't know Italy has a lot of unsolved problems. In a nutshell: in general weak fundamentals in the economy – look at #5- guardian website-; shadow economy, (illegal) tax avoidance. Many, many banks with bad loans (Unicredit – 77 billion €,  for example)

• High levels of corruption, criminality, and inefficiencies in the country’s bureaucratic and banking systems are additional problems in Italy. None of these problems will be solved by exiting the euro and in many ways leaving the single currency could achieve the opposite result. From: http://www.bin-italia.org/italys-economic-problems-are-not-caused-by-the-euro-but-by-the-countrys-chaotic-political-system/If you think „And a big reason for this is that Italy was not allowed to engage in stimulative spending unlike the USA to make up for the shortfall in demand. And the reason Italy wasn't allowed was because of the EURO.“     then you are very naive. Stimulus programs are somewhat controversial. What worked in the USA, must not work in Italy. Different background, see above. All these mentioned negatives gave the reason for the EU to put the foot on the brake.

• The EURO was not the problem, but Italy itself.

 

Yes, the Euro has lost a lot of value. What this means is that it in effect subsidizes the export based economy of Germany and other northern nations with healthier economies. What that means is that the Euro makes it harder for the less successful economies of southern europe to emerge from their recession.

 

If stimulus programs are controversial that's only because people refuse to look at the evidence. The more stimulus a country hit by recession applied to its economy, the quicker it recovered from the recession. The Eurozone guided the the bookkeeping mind of the Germans, plumped for a theory called Expansionary Austerity. It's thesis was that the markets would reward a company for behaving virtuously, It absolutely and totally failed. And your only reason for saying that stimulus wouldn't work is the clearly tendentious one that somehow for some unspecified reason "what worked in the USA, must not work in Italy." You can stick with the Germans, I'll go with John Maynard Keynes.

 

As for the debt..Italy's debt situation actually got worse thanks to the Euro. If Italy had its own currency there would have been a steep rise in inflation. A cheaper lira means more competitive exports. But because of the Euro, instead of inflation, there was deflation. That's a very slow and grinding way to get a country out of a depression. Of course, bankers prefer it because their loans don't lose their value. But loans irresponsibly given should lose their value. Instead the Eurozone chose to bail out bankers and keep the EU economies at near deflationary levels. So no, the Eurozone shouldn't pay for an idiotic debt policy. The idiotic debt policy being to bail out banks that made bad loans.. Contrast that case with Iceland that let its banks fail. It suffered a sharp swift contraction accompanied by inflation. And despite the disastrous scale of its depression, has now made a full recovery.

As for bankrupty like Greece.. Greece wasn't allowed to go bankrupt. Instead the Eurozone made the banks that foolishly lent to Greece mostly whole. The best thing that could have happened to the Greeks would have been to be kicked out of the Eurozone. But the Germans and French and some others instead acted to protect banking interests. 95 percent of the money that supposedly went to the rescue of Greece actually went to the rescue of the banks. If Greece had been kicked out or allowed to leave, it would have suffered a sharp and sever depression. Then as devaluation took hold it would have become more competitive with other economies. That's how it used to work in the past. Instead it is still suffering from the effects of relative deflation. 

And as for problems with Italian corruption, has being a member of the Eurozone done anything to mitigate this problem? I don't even see why you brought it up except as persiflage.
 

[bristolboy]

6 minutes ago, wolf81 said:

Having one's own currency has some big advantages, but the most important one for the Southern European countries would be that a country could devalue the currency to increase exports and reduce imports. In this way it's easier to protect the market of your country. A currency that would devalue often would also cause lenders to ask more rent on loans, which would reduce the loans taken by people and institutions.

 

Since these Southern European countries joined the Euro, the lenders felt more safe to lend large amounts of money while asking low rent, knowing that if there would be problems, al of the Eurozone would be forced to bail out, since the Euro project is too big to fail. At the same time it makes recovery of the economy of these Southern European countries much harder, since they can't reduce imports (which would come at a cost of Northern European countries) and increase exports (which would help create jobs). 

Thank you for explaining that much more clearly than I did.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

7 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Regardless of his political views and relationships, he makes a valid comment. The behavior of the EU and its negotiator has hardly been conducive to a friendly break up. The appointment of Barnier a French politician with a known dislike for Britain sounded warning bells. His style is to say "Non", threaten and demand Britain makes offers which he then belittles.

 

This Italian is the whistle blower for what we all know is happening. The EU have been trying to swindle and cheat all along. 

 

However, people across the EU do get a chance to vote for MEP's who should represent them. The EU President, the drunk Juncker is appointed by the elected heads of all member states. If you remember Cameron was very against his appointment but dear old Angela backed him and coerced support.

 

The problem is with people like Herr Schauebler who said just before Brexit when asked about "ever closer EU integration"  - "Elections mustn't be allowed to change things". That shows the real mentality of many of those elected to 'represent" the people. 

 

The EU will become like a big global corporation. Run by the "executive board" and with shareholders i.e. the electorate becoming more and more remote from the ability to influence those decisions.

 

Yes, if only the UK had listened to De Gaulle's "Non, Non, Non" when we wanted to join the Common Market  Of course it did not seem to be a bad thing in those days, but unfortunately it has now morphed into something completely different.  The Common Market was a great idea, but the EU as it now stands, is not and I believe it will eventually fall apart.  How many of the 27 countries' voters have actually been asked whether they want to be in or out?   The UK was,asked,  only because David Cameron was certain of a "remain" answer, but he was sadly mistaken and the public voted to leave, much to his amazement and that of the  so-called leaders of the other 27 countries.