Turned away at Bangkok airport

[BritTim]

40 minutes ago, sikishrory said:

When you arrive and get the 30 day visa exempt you are supposed to have an onward flight.

 I would have thought this is pretty straightforward as to why you were refused entry.

There is no evidence that lack of an onward flight within 30 days was the reason for the denial. The stamp for denied entry stated a valid reason under Section 12 of the Immigration Act (12 (2) no money to support stay). The real reason was that the immigration official decided he was using visa exempt entries to spend too much time in Thailand, according to the judgment of that official. Officials were given wide discretion to restrict visa exempt entries in that way by orders issued in 2014.

[Briggsy]

5 minutes ago, sikishrory said:

I don't know what the point of your reply is.

To rebut the inaccuracies in your post. To provide accurate information for others.

 

5 minutes ago, sikishrory said:

You can't enter Thailand on 30 day visa exempt entry.

Yes, you can. Thousands of tourists do it every day.

 

5 minutes ago, sikishrory said:

They have asked him to show his flight out and he didn't have one and was sent on his way.

You have made an incorrect link between cause and effect. Yes, he didn't have a return flight. Yes, he was sent on his way. However the chief factor in all these cases is a history of staying in Thailand for months and years on tourist visas and visa exempts.

 

The Thai phrase is ไม่มีปัจจัยยังชีพ, ปัจจัย means 'means' i.e income or assets or proof of such. ยัง here, is a verb meaning 'support'. ชีพ means life. If you translated as 'money to live on' you would be close enough, but you have lost the formality.

 

It is important to post accurate information. He was not denied entry for not having a return ticket. Please try to think of others and not post inaccuracies.

[Media1]

Once again sofa muppets working in a role they know nothing about. There a disgrace and part of the reason Thailand is in reverse gear

Edited August 1, 2018 by Media1

[Nice Boyd]

20 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Exacerbating Factors :

1. Lots of previous tourist visas and visa exempts

2. Full-ish passport

3. Flying in to Bangkok from nearby countries (Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia, Myanmar, HK, Singapore)

4. No visa i.e. attempting a visa exempt entry.

5. Quick turnarounds e.g. flying to Malaysia and coming back the same day.

 

Solutions to reduce the probability of denial of entry for tourist visa holders :

1. Renew passport more frequently than is strictly required. A passport renewal costs less than being bounced back to Phnom Penh incurring all those extra costs.

2. Always have a tourist visa, at the very least.

3. Avoid flying in to Bangkok from nearby countries. Use land borders if possible.

4. Avoid out-ins by plane. Do them at land borders but not Poi Pet.

5. Choose a male Immigration Officer if possible.

6. Have a flight ticket out if possible.

7. Carry 20,000 Baht or equivalent in cash. This no longer seems to work though.

8. Spend some time outside Thailand in other countries.

 

I went to Phil’s for s month and they gave me grief, only after thsi gf say we marry they let me in, I had done a Two day stay in Laos for a wedding, and they thought I working, Tools they are, it was an immigration female, I try to avoid them, now in retirement visa

[sikishrory]

Yeh it is translated as means and refers to finance. Again not sure what your trying to proove.

ยัง has nothing to do with the word support. Maybe the word you are thinking of is ยัน which means support or sustain. The word you are trying to translate there is 1 word ยังชีพ not 2 words.

You mention you can enter thailand on visa exempt entry. Common knowledge.

Rebutting inaccuracies? I asked if I were missing something regarding needing an onward flight to which people have replied you don't need one. News to me as in the past when I have applied for tourist visas an onward flight was always requested.

 

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by sikishrory

[sikishrory]

14 minutes ago, BritTim said:

There is no evidence that lack of an onward flight within 30 days was the reason for the denial. The stamp for denied entry stated a valid reason under Section 12 of the Immigration Act (12 (2) no money to support stay). The real reason was that the immigration official decided he was using visa exempt entries to spend too much time in Thailand, according to the judgment of that official. Officials were given wide discretion to restrict visa exempt entries in that way by orders issued in 2014.

Agree 100%. An intelligent answer

[DJ54]

9 hours ago, BritTim said:

Whether arriving visa exempt by air at all is prudent depends on the history of your previous visits to Thailand over the last three years, and especially the last 12 months. Definitely carry cash. It is easy to do, and eliminates one possible cause of trouble. Return/onward flights are unlikely to be a factor with immigration, but your airline might insist on one before allowing you to check in.

I booked a flight to SIngapore two different airlines. One for going and other for coming back. The airline for outgoing called after I booked and questioned why no return ticket. It was due to schedules which I told the and it was ok. 

[tifino]

Been for years returning for quick holidays, of usually 2 to 3 weeks at a time, once or twice a year.

Since 2013 the subsequent visits I have never had more than 30 baht cash in my pockets (mrs has it all) 

 

 This next time will be a slight change; in that we are instead landing at swampy,

swap to flight up to and stay 5 nights Chiang Mai,

followed by 5 nights Yangong,

then back in to swampy to fly back out home - all in a flight/accom package all pre-paid...

 

Now, I am reading that I expect they'll have me up against the wall, if I don't carry cash? 

My wallet only ever!! carries my Travelex and falang CCards 

I have been existing a personally cash free society for over a decade, and don't plan to go back to the old ways...

 

 

[RayHaas]

9 hours ago, elviajero said:

As long as you don't have a recent history of long back to back 'tourist' stays you shouldn't have any problem. Immigration will only ask to see cash and flights when they are looking at possibly denying entry, and they only tend to do that to long term tourists.

I have been staying here on Non-O (based on supporting a Thai daughter) visa's for awhile and the last time I flew in I was almost kicked out as well.

The woman looked at my passport and said: Too many time you come. Go to supervisor. Supervisor asked me a lot of questions and finally let me in on my Non-O visa.

Asked her if what I was doing was illegal. She said in principle not but if you want to stay here you need to get another kind of visa. Asked her what one she said: Open company and get WP. LOL!!!

So right now I am also debating if they let me in the next time.

 

 

 

 

[DJ54]

Never had problem at BKK except for the long lines that move at a slow pace. 

 

DMK the middle aged IO took a  very long time looking at my passport which had the extra pages added and 95% full.

 

I’d not been out of Bangkok but maybe 3 times I’m on Retirement visa. 

It seemed she was very through  or looking for a reason.. 

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, DJ54 said:

Never had problem at BKK except for the long lines that move at a slow pace. 

 

DMK the middle aged IO took a  very long time looking at my passport which had the extra pages added and 95% full.

 

I’d not been out of Bangkok but maybe 3 times I’m on Retirement visa. 

It seemed she was very through  or looking for a reason.. 

 

I have a new passport and they took a good look at mine that only has a few pages full.

They may be looking for fraud stamps or inconsistencies.

 

If one has nothing to hide, they should encourage this.  I like them doing their job and taking the time to to inspect it.

Just smile and say thank you.

 

[RickG16]

On a visa exempt land entry from Malaysia I was once asked to show proof of funds but didn't have cash on me.. They let me go to the atm.... Are they likely to allow this at the airport?

[bkk6060]

2 minutes ago, RickG16 said:

On a visa exempt land entry from Malaysia I was once asked to show proof of funds but didn't have cash on me.. They let me go to the atm.... Are they likely to allow this at the airport?

Several reports on here have said No.

[RickG16]

The thing about this forum is that you usually here mainly about problems, so it is hard to assess how many had no problems in comparison.

[seancbk]

7 minutes ago, RickG16 said:

On a visa exempt land entry from Malaysia I was once asked to show proof of funds but didn't have cash on me.. They let me go to the atm.... Are they likely to allow this at the airport?

 

No as there are no ATMs airside when you arrive.  Letting you go to an ATM would mean stamping you into the country then waiting for you to go through customs and into Thailand before you'd find an ATM.

[oldrunner]

Too clever for words. You play your game, you end up playing Thai rules. Some Farangs think they are so smart and Immigration so dumb, WRONG on both counts.

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, RayHaas said:

I have been staying here on Non-O (based on supporting a Thai daughter) visa's for awhile and the last time I flew in I was almost kicked out as well.

The woman looked at my passport and said: Too many time you come. Go to supervisor. Supervisor asked me a lot of questions and finally let me in on my Non-O visa.

Asked her if what I was doing was illegal. She said in principle not but if you want to stay here you need to get another kind of visa. Asked her what one she said: Open company and get WP. LOL!!!

So right now I am also debating if they let me in the next time.

What the IO said is correct, and I have been suggesting for some time that this will become more of a problem over time.

 

Under the visa system you are not supposed to 'stay in the country' (live) by doing visa runs. You are supposed to enter with a visa and then extend your stay for any reason you qualify for. In your case as the parent of a Thai. The authorities and immigration have tolerated this 'visa run' practice for many years, but as the numbers of people doing it increases the tougher they will get.

 

You were unlucky and got one of the more officious IO's, on another day you'll probably sail through. If I were you I would be looking in to the right kind of visa/permit if you're planning on living in the country permanently.

Edited August 1, 2018 by elviajero

[tifino]

but really... how much cash Baht do they insist you have on you??? 

  If one can only have up to $10000 loose cash on them when travelling 'between' countries;

are they going to insist everyone has 230,000 Thb cash on them?

 

 

[elviajero]

8 hours ago, RickG16 said:

I have 3 tourist visas in my passport going back to May 2017 + a couple of visa exempt land entries.....

I think you'd probably be ok if flying in from Europe, but if it were me I would get a Tourist Visa. If you enter under visa exempt again you open yourself up to the high chance of questioning and a slim possibility of being denied entry. You could get questioned with a Tourist Visa too, but the chances are greatly reduced and they rarely deny entry.

 

As things currently stand I would recommend frequent tourist should avoid visa exemption whenever possible.

[seancbk]

21 minutes ago, tifino said:

but really... how much cash Baht do they insist you have on you??? 

  If one can only have up to $10000 loose cash on them when travelling 'between' countries;

are they going to insist everyone has 230,000 Thb cash on them?

 

 

 

The expected amount is 20,000 THB or equivalent in travellers cheques or other foreign currency.   

This is relatively common knowledge and anyone coming here regularly should know this.

[Tanoshi]

28 minutes ago, tifino said:

but really... how much cash Baht do they insist you have on you??? 

  If one can only have up to $10000 loose cash on them when travelling 'between' countries;

are they going to insist everyone has 230,000 Thb cash on them?

 

 

Visa exempt entry - 10,000 baht per person, or 20,000 baht per family

Tourist Visa - 20,000 baht per person, or 40,000 baht per family.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Tanoshi

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, sikishrory said:

Agree 100%. An intelligent answer

And yet you had a more complete answer from @Briggsy

 

4 hours ago, sikishrory said:

Yeh it is translated as means and refers to finance. Again not sure what your trying to proove.

ยัง has nothing to do with the word support. Maybe the word you are thinking of is ยัน which means support or sustain. The word you are trying to translate there is 1 word ยังชีพ not 2 words.

You mention you can enter thailand on visa exempt entry. Common knowledge.

Rebutting inaccuracies? I asked if I were missing something regarding needing an onward flight to which people have replied you don't need one. News to me as in the past when I have applied for tourist visas an onward flight was always requested.

This is the 'official' Immigration Act translation;

Section 12 : Aliens which fall into any of the following categories are excluded from entering into the Kingdom :

2. Having no appropriate means of living following entrance into the Kingdom.

 

They are effectively saying that you have not demonstrated an appropriate way of living long term in the country. Anyone that wants to live long term needs a job, or income, or money in the bank, or a long stay type visa. A 'tourist' that has been in the country months/years hasn't done that; therefore, they can be denied entry under 12.2. It's a catch all.

 

You are right about return/onward flights. All 'tourists' should have a return/onward flight, but as far as I know there is no law or regulation giving IO's the power to deny entry specifically not having a ticket out. IO's only tend to ask to see tickets when thinking about denying entry because genuine/typical tourists go home or move on after a short stay in the country.

 

p.s.

This is an extract from guidance given to IO's back in June 2014

Subject: Guideline for inspection of citizen from certain countries that are not required to obtain a visa when entering the Kingdom of Thailand

To keep permission of entering in compliance with immigration law and provision concerned, it is deemed expedient to impose additional procedures of inspecting and permitting ordinary passport holders from certain countries who are not required to obtain a visa when entering Thailand for tourism purposes,

 

Information checking
2.1 Alien will be interviewed and requested to show evidence of the purpose of tourism

such as tickets, pocket money, booking slip, traveling plan.

 

Reason to reject or permit entry to Thailand

3.2  Without valid reason compiled to lack of evidence required by the immigration officer,

the alien shall be refused to enter the Kingdom, pursuant to immigration law provision.

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by elviajero

[ubonjoe]

A inflammatory off topic post has been removed.

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, tifino said:

but really... how much cash Baht do they insist you have on you??? 

  If one can only have up to $10000 loose cash on them when travelling 'between' countries;

are they going to insist everyone has 230,000 Thb cash on them?

 

 

They should.  I think 300, 000 b is a good round number.

[tryasimight]

7 hours ago, tifino said:

Been for years returning for quick holidays, of usually 2 to 3 weeks at a time, once or twice a year.

Since 2013 the subsequent visits I have never had more than 30 baht cash in my pockets (mrs has it all) 

 

 This next time will be a slight change; in that we are instead landing at swampy,

swap to flight up to and stay 5 nights Chiang Mai,

followed by 5 nights Yangong,

then back in to swampy to fly back out home - all in a flight/accom package all pre-paid...

 

Now, I am reading that I expect they'll have me up against the wall, if I don't carry cash? 

My wallet only ever!! carries my Travelex and falang CCards 

I have been existing a personally cash free society for over a decade, and don't plan to go back to the old ways...

 

 

Don't worry about it, you won't have a problem. I've been doing visa exempt for close to four years without a problem.  However my pattern clearly shows that I am not rorting the system by trying to stay long term. On average I enter at swampy once every three to four weeks,  stay ten to fifteen days then leave.  Rinse and repeat. I never have 20,000 baht cash on me.  I only use cards.

An alternate translation to the I/O's comment on the op's passport would be...... Trying to rort the system by staying long term without the appropriate visa.....entry refused.  Thailand made this very, very clear couple of years ago..... Try and game the system and you will have problems. 

[tryasimight]

5 hours ago, seancbk said:

 

No as there are no ATMs airside when you arrive.  Letting you go to an ATM would mean stamping you into the country then waiting for you to go through customs and into Thailand before you'd find an ATM.

There are atms after immigration and before customs. But without an entry stamp they may as well be on the moon. 

[tryasimight]

4 hours ago, seancbk said:

 

The expected amount is 20,000 THB or equivalent in travellers cheques or other foreign currency.   

This is relatively common knowledge and anyone coming here regularly should know this.

Do travellers cheque still exist? 

I think the last time I used then was 1992.

[elviajero]

24 minutes ago, tryasimight said:

Do travellers cheque still exist? 

I think the last time I used then was 1992.

Yes they do, but not sure who uses them these days.

[tryasimight]

11 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Yes they do, but not sure who uses them these days.

I can imagine going to anywhere that's not a bank and trying to cash them. 

In 1992 I cashed mine in a pub in England. 

[gilo]

38 minutes ago, tryasimight said:

There are atms after immigration and before customs. But without an entry stamp they may as well be on the moon. 

Although there are no ATM machines airside at DMK, there are a number of Thai Bureau de Change. On arrival back into Thailand I was able to withdraw money from my Kasikorn savings account by providing my debit card to the cashier at their Bureau BEFORE immigration and get cash in hand. I saw that at least SCB also had a desk stationed there so potentially account holders could do similar. I am not absolutely certain but I do not think that there was any charge for the withdrawal.