"Gardening loving Brit" electrocuted while mowing the lawn in Khon Kaen

[Pdavies99]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

Quite possibly. The limits (30mA, 30ms, 30V) were chosen as a compromise that would minimise nuisance trips whilst protecting 90% of the population. The elderly and very young have a much lower tolerance.

 

BUT. It would likely have tripped as soon as he clipped the cord, before he started looking for the problem.

 

He did not cut the cord!

[Tchooptip]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

Cost of saving a life, 2,500 Baht https://www.thianthong.com/safe-t-cut-rcbo-special-a-series-r20.html

I know I go on about these every time someone dies needlessly in their shower / pool / garden, but hopefully the message will get across to all our members.

 

Since it seems you tell us this very model is OK I made a screenshot not to forget and store it in my notes.

We'll start to build a house after the rainy season this year, so I will try to find one like that. 

I do not know much about electricity and without this post not sure at all that I would have thought, of it, I know just the differential circuit breakers it does not seem to be the same thing. So maybe one day in the future I will owe my life to a Crossy 's picture of August 2018

[Snow Leopard]

For anyone living in a house with dodgy wiring who use an electric lawnmower, hedge trimmer, drill or any other plug in appliances. Obviously the best way is to do it properly at the breaker box. But. Might not be a bad investment going by what happened to this poor chap. You can't kee nok safety especially your own.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Masterplug-ARCDKG-RCD-Safety-Adaptor/dp/B000RZDNZM

[laislica]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

Partly. They are definitely an easy retrofit and when talking to a Thai sparks he will (almost) certainly understand "Safe-T-Cut".

 

For a new install using RCDs in your consumer unit / breaker box is a neater and cheaper method.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Tchooptip said:

Since it seems you tell us this very model is OK I made a screenshot not to forget and store it in my notes.

We'll start to build a house after the rainy season this year, so I will try to find one like that. 

I do not know much about electricity and without this post not sure at all that I would have thought, of it, I know just the differential circuit breakers it does not seem to be the same thing. So maybe one day in the future I will owe my life to a Crossy 's picture of August 2018

 

In the above post Crossy gave more advice which may be very helpful for a new installation.

 

[Maestro]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

...Do you have one? Look in your electrical panel for a breaker with a "Test" button, no test button = no RCD. Go and look now! ...

 

 

 

This had me go down to the cellar and look for my test button. It looks like I have three, on the right side of the board, seemingly one each for the row of circuit breakers to the left of it. I pressed the little blue button for the top one, labelled 11 in blue, and it tripped.

 

[saminoz]

3 hours ago, Crossy said:

RIP because of no RCD ?

 

We have a petrol mower so no issue there, but I've lost count of the number of times the hired-help has cut the cord of the hedge trimmer and tripped the RCD.

 

It used to be a common cause of death in the UK until RCDs were mandated by law as they are supposed to be in Thailand.

Whilst I am sure that the petrol mower is perfectly safe in your hands, Sir, given the way that Thais in general handle the other, more prevalent form of petrol driven machinery, I woinder if there are some hidden,  scary statistics of several thousand Thais per year losing their life to these death traps?

Imagine the hasty U-turns around the mango tree, the argument with the hedge trimmer where the mower driver retires a machete from the grass box and goes to town on the hapless privet cutter!

Oh, the horror!!!

?

[bluesofa]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

Quite possibly. The limits (30mA, 30ms, 30V) were chosen as a compromise that would minimise nuisance trips whilst protecting 90% of the population. The elderly and very young have a much lower tolerance.

 

BUT. It would likely have tripped as soon as he clipped the cord, before he started looking for the problem.

 

We have an adjustable trip limit on our RCD (it's a Safe-T-Cut also). It can be set anywhere between 5 and 30mA.

I always thought 30mA as being on the high side if talking about life-saving. I know it can be a combination of trip current against time, but it's still better keep it at the lowest level possible.

 

I initially tried it at 5mA, but at the slightest drop of rain would sometimes trip. Presumably water ingressing into a joint or crap low insulation cabling somewhere. It's set at 15mA now to avoid the rain-induced tripping.

 

Yes, I know really I should try to find the cause of the trip, but it's almost as difficult as trying to push string uphill.

 

[Small Joke]

3 hours ago, tracy3eyes said:

Tragic, gets to 76 and all is well, then he passes in the garden he loves. Poor fellow. RIP

Extrapolating his age to mine relative to his wifes,  I'd be married to a 21 year old with that same age gap!  

A tragedy to be sure, but that's a huge age difference all the same.   

Edited August 2, 2018 by Small Joke

[saminoz]

2 hours ago, kannot said:

Yep thats half the problem "YMMV"............ this  type is the  breaker they now sell although Its  not a Crabtree its  similar type

LOl, I just looked at the circuit breaker that the electricians fitted for our electric shower (I ran the earth myself, to a mother of a copper rod I pounded into the earth at my house). I only now noticed that the box on the wall saya "Nationa" (not "National"!) and it is, apparently a "braker" (not a breaker!).

Guess who's off to HomePro tomorrow?!!!

?

[saminoz]

1 hour ago, wealthychef said:

We call them "circuit breakers" in America, which is I think pretty clear.  We also have GFI devices, for "ground fault interrupt."  But those only work if there is a proper ground.  

Unfortunately, the closest the Thais come to this is apportioning the "fault" to anybody but themselves!

[Small Joke]

2 hours ago, kannot said:

I wouldnt rely on the "big  stores"  staff whomever  they employ, I once had Tescos finest come and wire up my aircon, two wires only   purple and green and Green wasnt the earth..............told me it didnt need  the earth. 

Got  rid ,never had anyone else in to do electrics anywhere at my place, at least I know whats whats and where and how its  all connected, right size cables breakers and colours in sheathing some undeground

If you think electrical and other 'tradesmanship' is dodgy here,  try the Philippines. 

Holy Baby Jesus, they're markedly worse, everything is Jerry rigged to the lighting system, even half the taps in your small condo could be being piped thru someone else's meter. Or versa. And it was BUILT that way, it's truly bizarre.

[alzack]

you never use a cable machine on wet grass, 67 yrs old and he didn't know that?

[wealthychef]

7 minutes ago, saminoz said:

LOl, I just looked at the circuit breaker that the electricians fitted for our electric shower (I ran the earth myself, to a mother of a copper rod I pounded into the earth at my house). I only now noticed that the box on the wall saya "Nationa" (not "National"!) and it is, apparently a "braker" (not a breaker!).

Guess who's off to HomePro tomorrow?!!!

?

 

The funniest thing is to believe that there is in fact such a thing as a Thai electrician.  LOL.  Just because your job is to work with electricity doesn't mean you know what you're doing.  In my experience, anyone can do electrical work here with zero concern about standards or safety.  

 

[Jim walker]

sad news again for Brit Expats If he was a Brit should have known to use a RCD for outside electrical work would have been safer with a petrol mower, RIP Anthony and let this be a warning to the other gardeners out there

[Small Joke]

6 minutes ago, Jim walker said:

sad news again for Brit Expats If he was a Brit should have known to use a RCD for outside electrical work would have been safer with a petrol mower, RIP Anthony and let this be a warning to the other gardeners out there

I potter among the pots,  but I gave mowing a miss after leaving Aussie.  That's 'heavy lifting' in this climate,  and I get the Mrs to get the baan janitor in to do all that for the price of an imported beer. Delegation saves life over here. Mine. 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Small Joke

[Tchooptip]

I say that I do not know much about electricity but more than some Thai professionals. Two months ago no more water, the pump not working any more. My owner calls someone,  the chap says that it was necessary to change the pump for it was dead.

OK, he comes back to install a new pump, I stayed next to him talking with, since him knowing him a little.

But the new pump did not work too! He said I do not understand! Because there is some current, look!

With a screwdriver tester with a small resistance inside he shows me the small red light, but very weak, the screwdriver on the switch before the pump. I ask him, do you not have a voltmeter?

No! So I went to fetch for mine ... at the exit of the switch 30 volts, he opened the switch, it was completely rusted inside! 

He went to buy a new one,  the new pump started immediately!

He looks at my voltmeter and asks me, how much did you pay for it? I'd have to buy that ... a so-called professional.

 

The morale of this story, there is no doubt the old pump was still good for sure. It was the rusty switch only. 

I did not tell anything to my owner not to worry her ... For I conclude that moreover, the guy has recovered a pump still in working order

So help with the pros electricians here!  

 

[KhunBN]

4 hours ago, Crossy said:

Indeed it is, you may know it as a GFCI, ELCB or one of a myriad of other acronyms dependent upon where in the world you originate. Generally in Thailand it's known as a "Safe-T-Cut" which is actually a brand name.

 

Do you have one? Look in your electrical panel for a breaker with a "Test" button, no test button = no RCD. Go and look now!

 

If you don't have one I strongly recommend that you get one installed, all the big box stores sell them and most will install for you too. It may well save your life as it probably would this poor chap.

 

 

That was really informative, logged in just to give thanks!

[crazykopite]

??????????

[Elkski]

My dream of working in yard and garden like this chap.   RIP

OMG.   I will make sure to get an trip device if not in a rental it purchased place.  

Why a country chooses 220 vs 110.?? And don't start  the stupid argument one isn't safer. 

[smew]

Wife set it all up.

[cyberfarang]

3 hours ago, ThaidDown said:

Yes. please keep on bringing it up every time someone is electrocuted or even when asking about installations.

 

Reading the posts in this sub forum quite a few TV members have indicated that have added RCD s to their installations. Agreed that it's not 100% protection against electrocution but it's helluva lot better than not having one. In fact your urging could have already saved a life or lives.

 

Keep up the 'going on' about RCDs.

 

 

I`m not sure a safety cut out switch would have saved this guy`s life.

 

The devices are designed to cut out if an electrical appliance is on overload. Placing a finger or thumb on a live terminal would not had caused an overload, but would have just diverted the circuit through his body, that appears to have happened in this case.

 

I use a similar electric mower and very aware of the trailing electrical cable and not to run over it with the blade. 

 

Sad for the old guy, R.I.P.

[bluesofa]

27 minutes ago, Elkski said:

My dream of working in yard and garden like this chap.   RIP

OMG.   I will make sure to get an trip device if not in a rental it purchased place.  

Why a country chooses 220 vs 110.?? And don't start  the stupid argument one isn't safer. 

But why choose 60Hz too?

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, Crossy said:

Indeed it is, you may know it as a GFCI, ELCB or one of a myriad of other acronyms dependent upon where in the world you originate. Generally in Thailand it's known as a "Safe-T-Cut" which is actually a brand name.

 

Do you have one? Look in your electrical panel for a breaker with a "Test" button, no test button = no RCD. Go and look now!

 

If you don't have one I strongly recommend that you get one installed, all the big box stores sell them and most will install for you too. It may well save your life as it probably would this poor chap.

 

Damned if I can see one in my fuse box, so thanks very much for the post.

[Crossy]

24 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

The devices are designed to cut out if an electrical appliance is on overload. Placing a finger or thumb on a live terminal would not had caused an overload, but would have just diverted the circuit through his body, that appears to have happened in this case.

This is EXACTLY what an RCD (or whatever you call them at home) is designed to do. Electric current going where it is not supposed to (through you), even 0.030A, will cause it to trip.

[Crossy]

13 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

But why choose 60Hz too?

No more off-topic discussion of the relative safety, or otherwise, of the two systems please. This is not the subject matter here. 

[Crossy]

To everyone reading this thread, please take a moment to peruse the pinned topics in the Electrical Forum and ask questions there. It will cost you nothing.

 

A few minutes educating yourself could save your life or that of a loved one.

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/191-the-electrical-forum/

 

Electrics isn't rocket science, (almost) nothing is beyond the scope of an intelligent DIYer who is happy to ask questions and take advice.

 

This is Thai rocket science. There is no way in heaven or on earth I would be going anywhere near that ?

 

 

[Elkski]

How is Thai rocket play relavant to this topic?  Stay on topic please!!!

A good circuit interrupter would sense even a small harmless amount of current going to ground.  So if touching with one hand it would save you.  If you happen to touch with both hands it could firm a circuit to near your heart but not trip to ground. 

 

I will think of this death many times in my future.  Including a blessing from my garden today.  It's daybreak here.   My full condolences to his wife.  I'm sure she is in shock.

[phuketsub]

5 hours ago, Crossy said:

Indeed it is, you may know it as a GFCI, ELCB or one of a myriad of other acronyms dependent upon where in the world you originate. Generally in Thailand it's known as a "Safe-T-Cut" which is actually a brand name.

 

Do you have one? Look in your electrical panel for a breaker with a "Test" button, no test button = no RCD. Go and look now!

 

If you don't have one I strongly recommend that you get one installed, all the big box stores sell them and most will install for you too. It may well save your life as it probably would this poor chap.

 

I have worried about this quite a bit since I got an electric 'weed whacker' on-line...the only way to power it is by a heavy duty extension cord..all of our electric panels have Safe-T-Cut circuit breakers, but I never really knew they could help prevent electrocution. I am still going to be very careful when the grass is moist.

[GTgrizzly]

I wouldn't live in a house without an RCD, mine has saved my butt quite a number of times

Getting electrocuted is not much fun, I have had a few hits over the years and I gotta tell you ..it bloody hurts big time

[bluesofa]

3 minutes ago, phuketsub said:

I have worried about this quite a bit since I got an electric 'weed whacker' on-line...the only way to power it is by a heavy duty extension cord..all of our electric panels have Safe-T-Cut circuit breakers, but I never really knew they could help prevent electrocution. I am still going to be very careful when the grass is moist.

I just had to look that up. OK, a weed whacker is what I'd refer to as a 'strimmer'. Initially I though it might be a euphemism for something more deviant!