Overstayed S'porean Arrested With Ketamine

[Joey Boy]

death penalty

Woulda said thats a bit harsh, ketamine isnt to easy to get addicted to.. Its also quite easy to have bad experience on it if you take to much and go into a "K-hole", therefore users are generally scared off and stop taking it.

[britmaveric]

What Are Ketamine's Effects?

Ketamine produces a dissociative state in a user. Effects can range from rapture to paranoia to boredom. The user feels its hallucinogenic effects and experiences impaired perception. Ketamine commonly elicits an out-of-body or near-death experience; it can render the user comatose.

Ketamine is similar molecularly to phencyclidine (PCP--or "Angel Dust") and thus creates similar effects including numbness, loss of coordination, sense of invulnerability, muscle rigidity, aggressive/violent behavior, slurred or blocked speech, exaggerated sense of strength, and a blank stare. There is depression of respiratory function but not of the central nervous system, and cardiovascular function is maintained. Since ketamine is an anesthetic, it stops the user from feeling pain, which could lead the user to inadvertantly cause injury to himself/herself. Ketamine may relieve tension and anxiety, is purported to be a sexual stimulant, and intensifies colors and sounds.

The effects of a ketamine 'high' usually last an hour but they can last for 4-6 hours, and 24-48 hours are generally required before the user will feel completely "normal" again. Effects of chronic use of ketamine may take from several months to two years to wear off completely. Low doses (25-100mg) produce psychedelic effects quickly. Large doses can produce vomiting and convulsions and may lead to oxygen starvation to the brain and muscles; one gram can cause death. Flashbacks may even occur one year after use. Long-term effects include tolerance and possible physical and/or psychological dependence.

http://www.health.org/nongovpubs/ketamine/

Don't know alot about this drug, however being in the same family as pcp/angel dust - can't be good.

Edited December 6, 2005 by britmaveric

[bkkmadness]

Quote source please Brit.

Also, of course we know ketamine can cause death, as can many drugs when overdosed on. I dont see your point really Brit.

Would you agree to a simlar harsh penalty in say the UK for Ketamine dealing, or would you just go with whatever our government chose for punishment?

As I've said, blah de blah, this guy gets what he deserves coz dealing in Thailand and he knew the 'business risk' involved and made his choice.

But would definately be interested to know whether people think that punishment is too harsh, or are westerns punishments too lenient? Wheres the inbetween?

Edited December 6, 2005 by bkkmadness

[britmaveric]

Quote source please Brit.

Also, of course we know ketamine can cause death, as can many drugs when overdosed on.  I dont see your point really Brit.

Would you agree to a simlar harsh penalty in say the UK for Ketamine dealing, or would you just go with whatever our government chose for punishment?

As I've said, blah de blah, this guy gets what he deserves coz dealing in Thailand and he knew the 'business risk' involved and made his choice.

  But would definately be interested to know whether people think that punishment is too harsh, or are westerns punishments too lenient?  Wheres the inbetween?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd like to see it strengthened in the England myself, but I dare say that isn't going to happen - gone down the warm/fuzzy road of no return. That being said we are stuck with the laws that are passed we live with them or they are changed for better or worse.

[bkkmadness]

Effects of alcohol on the body

Interesting reading for anyone that slams all illegal drugs on the basis that they are harmful yet stills enjoys a beer.

[opothai]

no names mentioned

with an attitude of lighten up people its only a drug, is this how you and people like you got involved with drugs.

having taken drugs as you say you have , i take it you are with and around like minded people so you may have seen the devastation it causes and deaths and problems with young children looking up to the older generation and seeing them spaced out so they are thinking it's cool.

if people need these type of drugs to enable them to interact or just get by then i'm afraid it is proffesional help they need, as obviously they can not cope with life without substitute substances,

i hate drugs and have absolutely no sympathy with the people that make a living from the misery of others.

death penalty

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well you've seen my post I assume, I agree with Brit on this one.

But do have to ask though IMO off topic, have you had much experience with Ketamine and do you use alchohol?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

bkk madness

in reply to your question, i've had no experience with ketamine, but is is akin to angel dust which has had wide publicity in the past, and it has all been bad.

alchohol yes i've had first hand experience, and i enjoy my drinking and until the time comes when my drinking harms myself or others i shall carry on with my experiences. and it is legal.

on the subject of western punishment ' far to lenient' that is for drug abuse and alchohol related crimes.

without a suitable deterent, then people will take thier chances.

where is the middle, well there's a thread that will go on forever

[britmaveric]

Effects of alcohol on the body

Interesting reading for anyone that slams all illegal drugs on the basis that they are harmful yet stills enjoys a beer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excessive/binge drinking is where I agree with you!!!

[bkkmadness]

I'd like to see it strengthened in the England myself, but I dare say that isn't going to happen - gone down the warm/fuzzy road of no return. That being said we are stuck with the laws that are passed we live with them or they are changed for better or worse.

What do you think of alcohol now being made more readily available at all hours from pubs in the UK now?

Sorry people, I knows its off topic, but these chats always end up this way.

[bkkmadness]

Excessive/binge drinking is where I agree with you!!! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excessive/binge ketamine use is where I agree with you!!!

[opothai]

24 hr drinking will ' i hope ' have the same effect as all day openning in scotland.

first it was condemned as stupidity but has had the opposite effect, thier is less trouble and less alchohol abuse.

just got to wait i guess

[britmaveric]

I'd like to see it strengthened in the England myself, but I dare say that isn't going to happen - gone down the warm/fuzzy road of no return. That being said we are stuck with the laws that are passed we live with them or they are changed for better or worse.

What do you think of alcohol now being made more readily available at all hours from pubs in the UK now?

Sorry people, I knows its off topic, but these chats always end up this way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually cuts down on the bingers in the long run - you will always get the odd few that still abuse alcohol, but you wont get the lot that orders a 2/3 pints when last call is announced. Then they down 2-3pints in 30min and get bolloxed then all pile into the streets. Big problem then as we all know.

Back to Ketamine - classed as an illegal drug and alcohol isnt. As I said we live by the laws that are written for the public.

[bkkmadness]

24 hr drinking will ' i hope ' have the same effect as all day openning in scotland.

first it was condemned as stupidity but has had the opposite effect, thier is less trouble and less alchohol abuse.

just got to wait i guess

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm thinking it will end up causing more 'in house' fights but true, we'll have to wait and see.

i enjoy my drinking and until the time comes when my drinking harms myself or others i shall carry on with my experiences.

It may be time to give up then, as more than a small quanity of alcohol will harm you though small amounts are well known to have beneficial effects on one's health. Can I be as personal to ask what dosage you take and with what regularity?

In fact away from your personal drug usage, alcohol has a very harmful effect on many users and people who get in the way of those users.

If it became illegal to drink, would you still indulge and would you still advocate the death penalty for people who dealt in it?

Opothai, not attacking anyone here you understand but I do find it interesting the way many people are happy to call all drugs that are illegal harmful but are perfectly happy to use legal ones.

[bkkmadness]

Back to Ketamine - classed as an illegal drug and alcohol isnt. As I said we live by the laws that are written for the public.

But we can question these laws of course.

[opothai]

It may be time to give up then, as more than a small quanity of alcohol will harm you though small amounts are well known to have beneficial effects on one's health.  Can I be as personal to ask what dosage you take and with what regularity?

weekly, once or twice a week will drink, sometimes from 8pm through 3am sometimes 8pm through 11pm, dosage, possibly 16 units on a good day[ 8 pints ]

In fact away from your personal drug usage, alcohol has a very harmful effect on many users and people who get in the way of those users.

that is time to stop drinking 

If it became illegal to drink, would you still indulge and would you still advocate the death penalty for people who dealt in it?

reallistically in the uk it would not happen, but if i was in a country that served alchohol and then stopped i would call that represive but thier law which i would have to respect so i would move to a country that would be condusive to my life style

Opothai, not attacking anyone here you understand but I do find it interesting the way many people are happy to call all drugs that are illegal harmful but are perfectly happy to use legal ones.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

drinking is addictive and harmfull, but drugs are or can be instantly addictive and pro rata cause more damage.

it is illegal for minors to drink and do drugs, simply put i was always wary of my children or others falling under the influence of thier idols [pop stars and film stars] and thinking drugs are cool.

i always offered my kids wine at the dinner table when at an early age, now they are grown they do not drink much[ funny world] i wonder if i was represive would they have rebelled.

if adults take drugs they are old enough and wise enough to know of what they do.

children are not. this is the reason drug pushers should be dealt with harshly as they do not care from where thier customers come from.

[bkkmadness]

It may be time to give up then, as more than a small quanity of alcohol will harm you though small amounts are well known to have beneficial effects on one's health.  Can I be as personal to ask what dosage you take and with what regularity?

weekly, once or twice a week will drink, sometimes from 8pm through 3am sometimes 8pm through 11pm, dosage, possibly 16 units on a good day[ 8 pints ]

If you drink twice a week then you are well over the safe limit by 11 units. As you said earlier you wouldn't drink if it was harmful to you, but twice a week is. Is cutting down a consideration?

In fact away from your personal drug usage, alcohol has a very harmful effect on many users and people who get in the way of those users.

that is time to stop drinking 

Is that then also the time to consider making the drug illegal?

drinking is addictive and harmfull, but drugs are or can be instantly addictive and pro rata cause more damage.

That's simply not true of all drugs. Take cannabis for example, though illegal definately less harmful than booze. No drugs are instantly addictive by the way, thats a myth.

i always offered my kids wine at the dinner table when at an early age, now they are grown they do not drink much[ funny world] i wonder if i was represive would they have rebelled.

Was you not concerned they would take drugs that you have been repressive with?

simply put i was always wary of my children or others falling under the influence of thier idols [pop stars and film stars]and thinking drugs are cool.

Its the same with alcohol as well though is it not? Many people have spent the last week idolising George Best and celebrating his excessive drinking lifestyle for example.

Edited December 6, 2005 by bkkmadness

[britmaveric]

If it became illegal to drink, would you still indulge and would you still advocate the death penalty for people who dealt in it?

If a country decided to make alcohol and selling alcohol illegal and the penalty was death than so be it. Their law their choice and if I happened to be in said country you can be certain I wouldnt drink or touch a drop of alcohol.

Respecting a country's legal system is far differnt to advocating your own views on a particular issue.

Edited December 6, 2005 by britmaveric

[hopeless]

Ok Brit, I understand where your're comming from, YES, I agree this guy was stupid as he knew the risks involved, whether he deserves to be killed or life in prison (going on this info) is a different story IMO. Back in the UK this man would pay a hefty fine for selling ket, we both have different opinions. But what pisses me off is when people start running up their mouths and saying this man should DIE, fact is he sold this stuff to clubbers who wanted a good night out, nothing more nothing less. He was making cash, his customers were no doubt more than happy with the service. Any harm done to them was entirely their own choice.

no names mentioned

with an attitude of lighten up people its only a drug, is this how you and people like you got involved with drugs.

having taken drugs as you say you have , i take it you are with and around like minded people so you may have seen the devastation it causes and deaths and problems with young children looking up to the older generation and seeing them spaced out so they are thinking it's cool.

if people need these type of drugs to enable them to interact or just get by then i'm afraid it is proffesional help they need, as obviously they can not cope with life without substitute substances,

i hate drugs and have absolutely no sympathy with the people that make a living from the misery of others.

death penalty

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Easy tiger, Yes I have seen the devestation drugs can do, ON TV The couple of drug deaths in my area have been down to the misuse of drugs which u can only blame the users for not the drugs, if you swallow an ounce of speed ushouldnt expect everything to be fine now should you?

The fact is practicly everyone around me who have used drugs - namely E, cannabis and things like K are from educated middle class backgrounds, we are all working or students, we arnt addicted in anyway and we are absolutly fine.

Actually in my experiences alcohol has been the worst, my student friend used to drink so much he started going red everytime he had a drink. And ive felt my worst ever after drinking too much alcohol.

Reading your post is like reading something from the 80's. Get your facts right before posting such nonsense

[opothai]

hopeless

the devastation of family life i have personally seen along with many others these days, as now in the year 2005 it seems to be all to acceptable and recreational.

this is not a tv scenario but real life.

you simply can not compare illegal drugs and legal alcohol.

you ask me to get my facts right, may i ask what facts were posted.

as for drugs not your cannibis type but the hard classA type, you are telling me people can control thier intake and not get addicted, well try telling that to the

methodone clinics that serve helpings out to the 100's of heroine addicts in my town.

is thier a country where habitual drug use is legal, if so then all the pushers and users should go there and that would be the end many of societies problems with drugs and i for one would not and could not whinge.

[LivinLOS]

If it became illegal to drink, would you still indulge and would you still advocate the death penalty for people who dealt in it?

If a country decided to make alcohol and selling alcohol illegal and the penalty was death than so be it. Their law their choice and if I happened to be in said country you can be certain I wouldnt drink or touch a drop of alcohol.

Respecting a country's legal system is far differnt to advocating your own views on a particular issue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you have never gone out of the house without ypour passport with you ?? Never paid a working girl for services rendered.. Never exceded the speed limit ???

Ketamine is (was last time I was there) readily purchaseable over the counter in Phom Phen pharmacies, I assume its route into Thailand may well be via that border..

Its a 'dissassociative sedative' and pain reliever.. Often given to new born babies that have complications (sure its gonna kill you !!) often obtianed out of the vetinary systems where it is used to knock out animals by giving a high dose and the dissassociative part of the equation knocks them out (when you see them darting big game with the 'this wont hurt them' lines.. Thats normally ketamine).. Just because its vet grade does not mean its any less 'pure' or clean than the same stuff given to newborns as its a simple drug to synthasize..

[LivinLOS]

you simply can not compare illegal drugs and legal alcohol.

you ask me to get my facts right, may i ask what facts were posted.

as for drugs not your cannibis type but the hard classA  type, you are telling me people can control thier intake and not get addicted

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes you can.. I can tell you cause I have.. I am not ashamed of having a past history of drug use.. It has not diminished my life or mind, it has not effected my working carear, at times phychadelics have inspired and energised me.. I did this in huge doses for many years, this wasnt some weekend or once a month dalliance..

Over the years from my early teens until I moved to Thailand I believe I have tried nearly every chemical and compound out there from strong powerful things like DMT to the mostly harmless like MDMA.. I think the thing that has done my body the most harm out of any of the scare stories like crack and smack is drink !! I have had hangovers worse than my comedowns and the long term effect of drinking leaves you with as many medical issues as many many other drugs (not all of course.. Meth and Ice and other amphet based compounds really do knock hel_l out of your body and mind) but alchohol is a good drug.. its a good taxable drug... and the pushers of that drug have some of the finest lobbiests in existance constantly pushing thier propoganda to make sure that they, like any good corner dealing crack slinger, stay the main game in town..

Wake up and smell the coffee (opps sorry caffiene !!)..

[bkkmadness]

the devastation of family life i have personally seen along with many others these days, as now in the year 2005 it seems to be all to acceptable and recreational.

this is not a tv scenario but real life.

Devastation of family life is also caused by an alchy in the family.

you simply can not compare illegal drugs and legal alcohol.

I'd be interested to know why not?

as for drugs not your cannibis type but the hard classA  type, you are telling me people can control thier intake and not get addicted, well try telling that to the

methodone clinics that serve helpings out to the 100's of heroine addicts in my town.

Alcohol if made illegal would be a class A drug. And once you've finished with the methadone clinics try visiting the AA centres.

I don't think there is any centre for MDMA, Ketamine or cannabis users are there?

is thier a country where habitual drug use is legal, if so then all the pushers and users should go there and that would be the end many of societies problems with drugs and i for one would not and could not whinge.

UK is a country where habitual drug use is legal, alcohol. In fact they have recently changed the laws regarding this because of the problems it is causing.

[opothai]

the devastation of family life i have personally seen along with many others these days, as now in the year 2005 it seems to be all to acceptable and recreational.

this is not a tv scenario but real life.

Devastation of family life is also caused by an alchy in the family.

you simply can not compare illegal drugs and legal alcohol.

I'd be interested to know why not?

as for drugs not your cannibis type but the hard classA  type, you are telling me people can control thier intake and not get addicted, well try telling that to the

methodone clinics that serve helpings out to the 100's of heroine addicts in my town.

Alcohol if made illegal would be a class A drug. And once you've finished with the methadone clinics try visiting the AA centres.

I don't think there is any centre for MDMA, Ketamine or cannabis users are there?

is thier a country where habitual drug use is legal, if so then all the pushers and users should go there and that would be the end many of societies problems with drugs and i for one would not and could not whinge.

UK is a country where habitual drug use is legal, alcohol. In fact they have recently changed the laws regarding this because of the problems it is causing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

bkk

are you trying to condone or defend the use of hard drugs

drinking to many is legal and sociable and long may it remain so

you have replied to a afew sentences, but don't you think they are a tad ott.

maybe i see this subject as legal and illegal where you are trying to justify

[Maejo Man]

Yes you can.. I can tell you cause I have.. I am not ashamed of having a past history of drug use.. It has not diminished my life or mind, it has not effected my working carear, at times phychadelics have inspired and energised me.. I did this in huge doses for many years, this wasnt some weekend or once a month dalliance..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow. What an achievement! Do we clap now or later?

[bkkmadness]

bkk

are you trying to condone or defend the use of hard drugs

drinking to many is legal and sociable and long may it remain so

you have replied to a afew sentences, but don't you think they are a tad ott.

maybe i see this subject as legal and illegal where you are trying to justify

My point is, Alcohol is a hard drug. A hard drug which you and many use on a regular basis.

I agree that the guy who got this sentence desreved it because he knew the risks and he was a fool.

What I dont agree with is those that say that he deserved the sentence because he dealt in harmful and addictive drugs whilst happily buying their local own brand or harmful and addictive drug down the local bar and supporting their drug dealing (because a bar is of course somewhere where a drug seller sells to drug users) or offering the same harmful and addictive drug to their children.

Hope you dont think I'm being too personal mentioning your kids there but I hope to get my point across in the best way possible.

I understand you see this point as legal and illegal and I agree with you, thats why he gets the sentence.

What I would like you to acknowledge is that just because your drug of choice is legal it isn't necessarily less harmful than some illegal drugs out there.

It is medical fact after all.

[bina]

did a double take because we do use ketamine in our large animals (alpacas, goats, donkeys horses, for operations... and then they get a reverse shot of something to snap them out of it... not all vets can use all this stuff, didnt know people would actually use this stuff??? our alpaca stopped breathing three times on the ket... i had to do moutn to mouth, really.... when we were doing his fighting teeth.... learn something new everyday...

and the vets always handle the stuff very gingerly and i;n always terrified i;ll prick myself when i take out the dart (on deer etc)... maybe i;m missing something...

[WISteve]

The best quote in this string is:

" I took ketamine in LOS, I was given it for free by a guy from singerpore in the toilets of a club. one of the nicest guys ive met out there. "

I have no respect for ANYONE who is stupid enough to take some unknown substance from a stranger in the head!!!

Go argue legalization with your druggie friends. OR if you want to try to convince a Thai national to approach his/her representative, fine. Go for it.

But the S-porean knew (or should have known) the legal consequences of his actions. He chose to ignor them. He will pay the consequences, period.

Alcohol is presently legal. Ketamine is not. All your "that's not right" baloney won't make an ounce of difference in the courtroom. And that's where it really matters.

~WISteve

[meemiathai]

no names mentioned

with an attitude of lighten up people its only a drug, is this how you and people like you got involved with drugs.

having taken drugs as you say you have , i take it you are with and around like minded people so you may have seen the devastation it causes and deaths and problems with young children looking up to the older generation and seeing them spaced out so they are thinking it's cool.

if people need these type of drugs to enable them to interact or just get by then i'm afraid it is proffesional help they need, as obviously they can not cope with life without substitute substances,

i hate drugs and have absolutely no sympathy with the people that make a living from the misery of others.

death penalty

Are you talking about cigarettes and alcohol?

Well, alcohol is ok when someone take it as long as they don't become agressive and start beating me up.

But, those toxic sticks is a problem. People like burning them everywhere and try killing me with them! You're right, opothai, kill these stupid bastards!

[Maigo6]

you simply can not compare illegal drugs and legal alcohol.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Correct, Alcohol and Tobacco are responsible for 97% of all drug related deaths, no comparison.

[MikeRay]

I just read "Welcome to hel_l" of Colin Martin.Certainly people "enjoy" their time in Thailand´s prisons.´

Thank goodnes I´ve never been so desperate about staying in LOS.

[hopeless]

hopeless

the devastation of family life i have personally seen along with many others these days, as now in the year 2005 it seems to be all to acceptable and recreational.

this is not a tv scenario but real life.

you simply can not compare illegal drugs and legal alcohol.

you ask me to get my facts right, may i ask what facts were posted.

as for drugs not your cannibis type but the hard classA  type, you are telling me people can control thier intake and not get addicted, well try telling that to the

methodone clinics that serve helpings out to the 100's of heroine addicts in my town.

is thier a country where habitual drug use is legal, if so then all the pushers and users should go there and that would be the end many of societies problems with drugs and i for one would not and could not whinge.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your quote 'you simply can not compare illegal drugs and legal alcohol'

Yet you are catagorising all drugs as 1, this thread is about ketamine, if you say you cant compare illegal drugs to legal booze then how the hel_l do you compare ketamine, which is a club drug to heroin and methadone etc? Slightly unfair as me and my friends enjoy the occasional pill and line now and again but we are certainly not addicted, never been never will be.

K is legal in the UK.

I cant be botherd to argue about the pros and cons of drink and drugs, im going on pure facts here, ketamine can kill, but used responsibly is unlikely to cause much damage at all.

I dont blame the drugs, I blame the people.

Let me say 1 more thing tho, in the defence of MDMA and K, the user will not cause any bother, the person high on drink as we witness every night in the towns cause all sorts of social problems. And also, Alcohol withdrawel can KILL, heroin and crack withdrawel wont.