'It's a shocking idea': outcry over Bangkok street vendor ban

[samsensam]

 

i saw this in the uk press, the 'reporter' has clearly no idea what they are talking about; these stall holders havent been blocking khao san road during the day for about three years. it is simply not news and it's a pity the thai visa team is peddling such inaccurate/untrue stories, far better to be reporting the correct facts, surely?!

[Damrongsak]

13 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

They seem to be doing their best to ruin what people like about Thailand

I liked the old area of BKK near Chinatown and the Indian cloth market.  Yaowarat and Pahurat area.  40 years ago, I used to buy some fried dough things from an old Sikh gent who had a little street corner cart.  Maybe 15-20 years later, he was still there, but had an assistant.  Told me the old gent was doing well and had even visited relatives in the U.S.  Last trip, I couldn't even recognize the corner nor find him.  Big mall sprouted up ... 

 

I used to live in a little wooden house in a compound in the Pratunam area by the Indra hotel and the Pratunam fresh market.  All gone now.  Covered by the Palladium World shopping mall.  My house was under the middle tower.

 

So much for charm.

 

Edited August 5, 2018 by Damrongsak

[JennaBurrows]

6 hours ago, khunken said:

Yes it could.

In my area they've done the same with the stretch of On Nut between Big C & Sukhumvit. The stretch between the klong and Soi Pridi (Pra Kanong) has also been turned into a walkable footpath by restricting the vendors to the shop side of the pavement only.

As someone who enjoys buying items - especially fruit - from the vendors as well as being able to walk on the footpath, both can be catered for.

 

The white lines were painted after a democratically ruled court case in 2008, that allowed traders to set up after 7pm in certain areas. You can see those lines there in Nana, Sukhumvit too. But the ruling has just been discared and it's a blanket ban.

 

What happened in Sukhumvit has destroyed what i loved about Bangkok. I used to be able to get some great street food at 2am, sitting outside in the lovely air, little traffic, and the food was absolutely awesome. The colours, vibrancy was a sigh to behold. Now the area is dead, and is just for parked cars. 

Edited August 5, 2018 by JennaBurrows

[BangkokTony]

SamsenSam ... Yes, the daytime is no real problem.  Its the evening. Why is it not a walking street?  Why are cars/tuk tuks and motorcycles allowed to drive down at speed throughout the day? OK, allow vehicles to load/unload before, say, 5pm .  Then close the road.  Most vendors come out at 5pm and obstruct those who want to walk in a leisurely fashion. 

You have been here long enough to know that there is congestion especially at 8pm because of food carts etc. situated in the road.  The vendors can erect their stalls on the marked spaces already set up on the road.  Yes, it will interfere with the taxis and tuk tuks plying there trade but a parking area can be applied at the last 20 metres each end of the road so drivers can continue overcharging naive tourists.

I doubt the new regulations will reach your area of Samsen any time soon so you can cease worrying.

Also there is a large area on Ratchdomnern road that the stalls can relocate to with a cut through on the KS soi

1 hour ago, samsensam said:

 

i saw this in the uk press, the 'reporter' has clearly no idea what they are talking about; these stall holders havent been blocking khao san road during the day for about three years. it is simply not news and it's a pity the thai visa team is peddling such inaccurate/untrue stories, far better to be reporting the correct facts, surely?!

 

[JennaBurrows]

9 hours ago, new2here said:

 

I think the reason that the solutions presented are largely “all” or “none” types is that, this is how sudden, reactive responses tend to go BEFORE they have the time/opportunity to be better thought out, more input gained and a decent amount of trialing completed... kind of the proverbial “knee-jerk” reaction if you will ... but I think if given the right amount of time and if involving the right people, I’ll bet a good win-win can be found.

For this reason, I tend to dislike the ever-so-famous Thai “crackdown” on this or that issue.... as they are rarely ever long lasting, don’t really provide for a meaningful long-term fix that all sides can agree with and usually only work when the immediate risk/fear of enforcement action is present.



Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

The crackdown has worked in Sukhumvit. It's destroyed the area. And they are cruelly enforcing it by using precious resources to patrol the area. 

 

Soi 38, hands down one of the best vibrant roads in Sukhumvit banned because of a new condo being built. That was very dodgy. 

 

But instead of regulating the street food and vendors along Nana and Asok, it was just an outright ban. 

 

As some say, strict zones and tweeks would have been perfect - instead of a blanket ban, which is all that authorities do. 

 

They desire to be Singapore is alarming. 

[LazySlipper]

On 8/5/2018 at 7:24 AM, rooster59 said:

a place of pilgrimage for tanned, dreadlocked, tassle-adorned backpackers for decades.

 

That is the very reason it has to be sanitized. They forgot to mention the smelly, body pierced with left over chicken bones, penniless backpackers. When I first came here yearssss ago I was charmed at first, but after a very short while that charm faded away. Good riddance. Solly for being a party pooper.

[JennaBurrows]

4 hours ago, LazySlipper said:

 

That is the very reason it has to be sanitized. They forgot to mention the smelly, body pierced with left over chicken bones, penniless backpackers. When I first came here yearssss ago I was charmed at first, but after a very short while that charm faded away. Good riddance. Solly for being a party pooper.

 

What are you doing in that area then? If you don't like it go elsewhere ... 

[LazySlipper]

45 minutes ago, JennaBurrows said:

 

What are you doing in that area then? If you don't like it go elsewhere ... 

Sounds like a real back packer come back to me... "if you don't like it..."I didn't and haven't been back since... learn to read before criticizing someone's opinion.

[MikeN]

On 8/5/2018 at 12:31 PM, Classic Ray said:

In my soi near Udom Suk BTS, the BMA (I presume) has painted white boundary lines on the footpath, leaving adequate pedestrian room, where food stalls can set up six days a week, Monday being a day off for the traders and an opportunity for thorough cleaning by the BMA. There is no road obstruction and a useful service is provided. Can’t a similar system be set up everywhere?

They did that years ago on the odd soi side of Sukhumwit near Nana, the lines are still vaguely visible there. It worked ok for a while then they started creeping over the lines into the pedestrian area, or put their stools in the way and then people started setting up tables outside the shops too, reducing the walkway to almost nothing. Especially when a couple of “larger” people stop to look ! 

So the traders are their own worst enemy, give them an inch and they take the whole damm footpath ! And then complain loudly when the BMA wants it back......

 I guess it is typical of the scofflaw mentality around here though.

[JennaBurrows]

17 hours ago, LazySlipper said:

Sounds like a real back packer come back to me... "if you don't like it..."I didn't and haven't been back since... learn to read before criticizing someone's opinion.

 

No i've been reading far too many expats bemoaning life in Thailand.

 

They're usually retired, old, and want bans on everything. Ban the nightlife, ban the street food, ban the markets, ban every bloody thing. Even if the thing they wanting banning is nowhere near them. 

 

Khao San Road, areas of Sukhumvit are touristy areas.  Most of the residents in the area are working in some form in the tourism industry.  An industry that is vital to the economy of Thailand. 

 

Yet these expats seem to believe they have a voice in knowing whats rite, what's best for Thai people. 

 

You have tourist zones like Sentosa in Singapore, the Strip in Vegas, Disney in Orlando, the Bund in Shanghai. Yet you have expats in Thailand bemoaning everything that brings so much fun to others - especially in areas that are meant to cater for tourists. 

 

It's like going to Las Vegas and demanding casinos need to go. Mind you, the current Thai regime would probably just do that. 

Edited August 6, 2018 by JennaBurrows

[JennaBurrows]

15 hours ago, MikeN said:

They did that years ago on the odd soi side of Sukhumwit near Nana, the lines are still vaguely visible there. It worked ok for a while then they started creeping over the lines into the pedestrian area, or put their stools in the way and then people started setting up tables outside the shops too, reducing the walkway to almost nothing. Especially when a couple of “larger” people stop to look ! 

So the traders are their own worst enemy, give them an inch and they take the whole damm footpath ! And then complain loudly when the BMA wants it back......

 I guess it is typical of the scofflaw mentality around here though.

 

 

Very simple. 

 

You patrol the area. Anyone steps outside the zone, you fine them. The way they are doing now if anyone dares sets anything up. 

 

The irony being the area was busy because of the night market, and pop up bars, street food. The other side of Nana was dead and quiet. If you really wanted to use an empty pavement use the other side ! 

 

The area is now quiet and dead at night, bar the stranglers leaving Nana Plaza or Cowboy. 

 

As ever with the BMA there's never any attempts to control or implement a control policy. It's always allow chaos or ban it. 

[LazySlipper]

1 hour ago, JennaBurrows said:

 

No i've been reading far too many expats bemoaning life in Thailand.

 

They're usually retired, old, and want bans on everything. Ban the nightlife, ban the street food, ban the markets, ban every bloody thing. Even if the thing they wanting banning is nowhere near them. 

 

Khao San Road, areas of Sukhumvit are touristy areas.  Most of the residents in the area are working in some form in the tourism industry.  An industry that is vital to the economy of Thailand. 

 

Yet these expats seem to believe they have a voice in knowing whats rite, what's best for Thai people. 

 

You have tourist zones like Sentosa in Singapore, the Strip in Vegas, Disney in Orlando, the Bund in Shanghai. Yet you have expats in Thailand bemoaning everything that brings so much fun to others - especially in areas that are meant to cater for tourists. 

 

It's like going to Las Vegas and demanding casinos need to go. Mind you, the current Thai regime would probably just do that. 

 

In my opinion you are new to Thailand and still have the glitter of the night life street life etc.... Some of us have been living and working here long enough to realize that artificial attractions are as bad as home as they are here. Kitch is the right word. You will get over it as all of us do. The reason most of the posters here complain about the Thai way of doing things is probably because we were bored of what we had back home, we came here and loved the weather food cost of living etc... but have come to hate the corrupt way of the gvt and Thai people and outright dangerous living habits these yahoos have. However, I will still put up with these idiocies rather than go back home to what I think is a society that has gone far too much to the left and is being defined by politically correct nonsense.

[JennaBurrows]

6 minutes ago, LazySlipper said:

 

In my opinion you are new to Thailand and still have the glitter of the night life street life etc.... Some of us have been living and working here long enough to realize that artificial attractions are as bad as home as they are here. Kitch is the right word. You will get over it as all of us do. The reason most of the posters here complain about the Thai way of doing things is probably because we were bored of what we had back home, we came here and loved the weather food cost of living etc... but have come to hate the corrupt way of the gvt and Thai people and outright dangerous living habits these yahoos have. However, I will still put up with these idiocies rather than go back home to what I think is a society that has gone far too much to the left and is being defined by politically correct nonsense.

 

Nonsense. 

 

I rarely went to Khao San Road, but i appreciated it for what it was. That alot of tourists were in the area, and it provided jobs for the local community, and there was a vibrancy of the area.

 

I do however, bemoan the total cull in Sukhumvit. Essentially the tourist central zone, that has been ruined of it's character into another soullless metropolsis by a BMA that has no idea what people want. 

 

The worry is once they start on a mission of banning and banning everything, they will get embolded to destroy everything that attracts people to Thailand. 

 

There's a reason why so many tourists come to Bangkok when it has so few tourists attractions - and it isn't to admire pavement space. Look at how much money Singapore has spent on it's tourism infrustucture, Billions spent on Sentosa, Billions more on Marina Bay - yet Bangkok gets far bigger number tourism wise. 

Edited August 7, 2018 by JennaBurrows

[lamyai3]

4 hours ago, LazySlipper said:

 

In my opinion you are new to Thailand and still have the glitter of the night life street life etc.... Some of us have been living and working here long enough to realize that artificial attractions are as bad as home as they are here. Kitch is the right word. You will get over it as all of us do. The reason most of the posters here complain about the Thai way of doing things is probably because we were bored of what we had back home, we came here and loved the weather food cost of living etc... but have come to hate the corrupt way of the gvt and Thai people and outright dangerous living habits these yahoos have. However, I will still put up with these idiocies rather than go back home to what I think is a society that has gone far too much to the left and is being defined by politically correct nonsense.

What's wrong with kitsch? Especially when it's limited to a few small areas? These are the things that attract tourists to the country, something that's vibrant, colourful and unique in the world, dissimilar to the drabness of their home country. In any event Khaosan Road is nowhere near the business districts of town, nor where long term expats tend to live - no expat living here has any need to even cross paths with a backpacker if they don't wish to. To call for a ban on something that doesn't affect you personally is nothing more than mean spirited.

 

I agree about the insane political correctness of the west (which most tourists are more than happy to escape for a few weeks) but do you really think military correctness is an improvement? 

[LazySlipper]

All they need to do is set up a market like Chatuchak. Seems to be working fine there, rather than on a street. Plenty of other things to see around the Kao San area other than the shops that sell illegal goods  (for the most part) anyways.

[CLW]

All they need to do is set up a market like Chatuchak. Seems to be working fine there, rather than on a street. Plenty of other things to see around the Kao San area other than the shops that sell illegal goods  (for the most part) anyways.

Yes. But did the BMA this? Providing an alternative? They did not even talk about a compromise.
It is not clear how long before they announced this regulation but I sympathise with the street vendors.
How would you feel if your employer tells you, tomorrow you don't need to come to work and no more salary for you...

[JennaBurrows]

 

Lazyslipper : do you live anywhere near Khao San Road or certain areas of Sukhumvit like Nana? That is where the majority of street markets, pop up bars, street food stalls set up and where the bans have taken place. 

 

If as i assume, you do not, then you really have no place calling for a ban on something that is nowhere near you. 

 

It's akin to the time i lived in New York, in Brooklyn - and then bemoaning the bright lights of Time Square, which was about 30 minutes from Brooklyn, and calling for them to turn the giant LCD lights off around Times Square as it was annoying me.

 

The BMA are systematically destroying the cultural heartbeat of the city. This isn't just Khao San Road, they are doing this anywhere where there are tourists ... China Town is next. 

Edited August 7, 2018 by JennaBurrows

[JennaBurrows]

9 hours ago, LazySlipper said:

 

In my opinion you are new to Thailand and still have the glitter of the night life street life etc.... Some of us have been living and working here long enough to realize that artificial attractions are as bad as home as they are here. Kitch is the right word. You will get over it as all of us do. The reason most of the posters here complain about the Thai way of doing things is probably because we were bored of what we had back home, we came here and loved the weather food cost of living etc... but have come to hate the corrupt way of the gvt and Thai people and outright dangerous living habits these yahoos have. However, I will still put up with these idiocies rather than go back home to what I think is a society that has gone far too much to the left and is being defined by politically correct nonsense.

 

You need to get yourself back on the tripadvisor forums - where everything in Thailand is covered in gold, and no negativity is allowed. You talk utter nonsense. 

[upu2]

On 8/5/2018 at 7:25 AM, scubascuba3 said:

They seem to be doing their best to ruin what people like about Thailand

And they are doing a damn good job at it as well

[LazySlipper]

14 hours ago, JennaBurrows said:

You talk utter nonsense. 

 

Pot--Kettle... backpacker

[LazySlipper]

17 hours ago, CLW said:

Yes. But did the BMA this? Providing an alternative? They did not even talk about a compromise.
It is not clear how long before they announced this regulation but I sympathise with the street vendors.
How would you feel if your employer tells you, tomorrow you don't need to come to work and no more salary for you...

 

They don't have employers and most of the commodities they sell are cheap counterfeits anyway. No pity whatsoever for them. Try to get a refund if the crap you buy falls apart. The one's who defend the sellers based on the tourism forget to mention that once you are back home and your crap falls apart you still got screwed.

 

As for Jenna, I reiterate "get a life". You are obviously new to Thailand and once you got screwed enough by unscrupulous sellers you will come to see my point of view. Reminds me of the hey day of Pantip Plaza when hawkers used to gip you with their fake software cd's full of viruses. Yeah... I was a sucker then and eventually came around and realized what these hawkers were... the were hawks preying on the public.

 

FYI, latest news I heard form some Thais I know is that the gvt decided to be flexible and let the sellers go and sell their crap. So the debate is over and you (Jenna) can now go and buy your backpacking flip flops once again without the fear of missing your favourite hawkers.

 

 

[lamyai3]

2 minutes ago, LazySlipper said:

 

They don't have employers and most of the commodities they sell are cheap counterfeits anyway. No pity whatsoever for them. Try to get a refund if the crap you buy falls apart. The one's who defend the sellers based on the tourism forget to mention that once you are back home and your crap falls apart you still got screwed.

 

As for Jenna, I reiterate "get a life". You are obviously new to Thailand and once you got screwed enough by unscrupulous sellers you will come to see my point of view. Reminds me of the hey day of Pantip Plaza when hawkers used to gip you with their fake software cd's full of viruses. Yeah... I was a sucker then and eventually came around and realized what these hawkers were... the were hawks preying on the public.

You may have given away your true position here... as a former sucker that got suckered, you're still holding a grudge. Personally I found Pantip to be a godsend, both in terms of their software and their hardware repairs. They found me a replacement hard drive on my defunct laptop in there from an old machine that kept it up and running a further seven years, set it up and fitted it with a smile for the princely sum of 600 baht. Personally I've neither been ripped off in Panthip or Khaosan, though I can see how it might be possible. 

[LazySlipper]

3 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

You may have given away your true position here... as a former sucker that got suckered, you're still holding a grudge. Personally I found Pantip to be a godsend, both in terms of their software and their hardware repairs. They found me a replacement hard drive on my defunct laptop in there from an old machine that kept it up and running a further seven years, set it up and fitted it with a smile for the princely sum of 600 baht. Personally I've neither been ripped off in Panthip or Khaosan, though I can see how it might be possible. 

Why are you mixing apples and oranges??? 

 

Never talked about the hardware... get some glasses man... and yes I did get suckered and I do hold a grudge. Maybe if more people did Thailand would start to honor warranties like in the west... maybe you are rich and have disposable income. I don't. 

[lamyai3]

28 minutes ago, LazySlipper said:

Why are you mixing apples and oranges??? 

 

Never talked about the hardware... get some glasses man... and yes I did get suckered and I do hold a grudge. Maybe if more people did Thailand would start to honor warranties like in the west... maybe you are rich and have disposable income. I don't. 

I don't have a surfeit of disposable income either, why else would I be taking my laptop to Pantip for repairs? There were rip off merchants aplenty there sure, but aside from a couple of dud disks and poor quality cables I mostly saved a fortune there on both hardware and software. This is the whole point about these places, you know you're not buying the original product, but a bit of foreknowledge and a couple of recommendations are always wise. Khaosan is equally true, why would anyone complain if a knock off brand name t-shirt that cost them a hundred baht turned out to be substandard?

[LazySlipper]

34 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

I don't have a surfeit of disposable income either, why else would I be taking my laptop to Pantip for repairs? There were rip off merchants aplenty there sure, but aside from a couple of dud disks and poor quality cables I mostly saved a fortune there on both hardware and software. This is the whole point about these places, you know you're not buying the original product, but a bit of foreknowledge and a couple of recommendations are always wise. Khaosan is equally true, why would anyone complain if a knock off brand name t-shirt that cost them a hundred baht turned out to be substandard?

 

Maybe because the first time you wear it it falls apart at the seams? Or maybe the knockoff backpack won't survive a trip in a plane? I bought fake Izod shirts there in 2003 for only 200 bht. I might as well have burned my money. Sorry, no sympathy here.

 

[lamyai3]

17 minutes ago, LazySlipper said:

 

Maybe because the first time you wear it it falls apart at the seams? Or maybe the knockoff backpack won't survive a trip in a plane? I bought fake Izod shirts there in 2003 for only 200 bht. I might as well have burned my money. Sorry, no sympathy here.

 

Nothing like that happened to me, bought countless things there. Though I did buy a fake G-shock once and it packed up in 48 hours, but it was cheap enough to be amusing. Clothes fared much better, and bags, sunglasses etc too. I still use a Kipling knock off bag for occasional travel I bought well over a decade ago there, it's proved as good as anything else I could have picked up for under $20. Worth mentioning also, Khaosan has sported some of the best used bookstores in Asia, Chiang Mai too. 

[CLW]

 
They don't have employers and most of the commodities they sell are cheap counterfeits anyway. No pity whatsoever for them. Try to get a refund if the crap you buy falls apart. The one's who defend the sellers based on the tourism forget to mention that once you are back home and your crap falls apart you still got screwed.
 
As for Jenna, I reiterate "get a life". You are obviously new to Thailand and once you got screwed enough by unscrupulous sellers you will come to see my point of view. Reminds me of the hey day of Pantip Plaza when hawkers used to gip you with their fake software cd's full of viruses. Yeah... I was a sucker then and eventually came around and realized what these hawkers were... the were hawks preying on the public.
 
FYI, latest news I heard form some Thais I know is that the gvt decided to be flexible and let the sellers go and sell their crap. So the debate is over and you (Jenna) can now go and buy your backpacking flip flops once again without the fear of missing your favourite hawkers.
 
 

Of course they not have employers, they operate small businesses and are self employed. That was just a comparison.
By the way most of the things they sell come anyway from China and most likely the same products that you can buy in proper stores or online. If you dig deeper on this topic, brand name and no name products come often from the same manufacturer.
I bought an umbrella, iron and hairdryer at street stalls and they last since 4 years. Not too bad.

Apart from this, what about the street food that KSR and Bangkok is known for?
Tell a story of my ex-gf. She used to work in jasmine tower at Sukhumvit. After the clean up some years ago they had no cheap alternative for their lunch break anymore. I wouldn't want to pay 100 Baht for a meal that I could get for 50 Baht before just because I sit in a proper restaurant that some rich property owner rents out

[LazySlipper]

2 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Khaosan has sported some of the best used bookstores in Asia, Chiang Mai too. 

Hey man... you keep and I repeat ... you keep mixing apples and oranges. FIrst you confuse software with hardware at pantip and now you talk about bookstores... The bookstores are not selling on the street! They actually pay rent and are legitimate businesses. Think before you write!

[lamyai3]

11 minutes ago, LazySlipper said:

Hey man... you keep and I repeat ... you keep mixing apples and oranges. FIrst you confuse software with hardware at pantip and now you talk about bookstores... The bookstores are not selling on the street! They actually pay rent and are legitimate businesses. Think before you write!

My posts about Pantip made it perfectly obvious that I was talking about both hardware and software. Yes, I've bought a couple of dodgy dvd's there, but most were OK, and those that weren't I managed to take back and exchange, in any event the money involved was hardly worth kicking up a fuss anyway, and I saved a fortune there over the years. 

 

Not sure how many times you went to Khaosan but you don't sound very familiar with the place. There were most certainly used bookstalls on the street there in the past (in addition to the brick and mortar places), one used to be on the sidewalk near the alley leading to Suzie Pub for instance. I've bought from them, and got my 50% back from them a few weeks later like they've promised. Of course there's always going to be bad apples among street vendors but they've been mostly fine in my experience.