"We are not coming back" : Tourists give the thumbs down to Khao San Road changes

[moontang]

18 minutes ago, CLW said:

1 hour ago, elgenon said:

When I read the Post there are amazing stories of how well Thailand is doing. Then I read the business news.The GDP is good because of the infrastructure programs. But where does all that money come from? My understanding is that their tax collection is not efficient.

I can't recall the exact number but the percentage of people paying income and other taxes is very small here. Amazing how the government can allocate the yearly budgets.

ever been to the Land Office?  Or bought anything from any brick and mortar or online store?  Ever buy cigs or alcohol?  Ever buy a plane ticket?

[moutamine]

3 hours ago, cmsally said:

You expect them to wear suits and dresses on holiday in a hot climate !!

When I go on vacation to Italy or South of France, I don't look like a hobo... I have my nice white shorts and short sleeves shirts or polo European style!!!  Why do they have to look like they came out of a street fight with a grizzly bear??

[moutamine]

3 hours ago, elgenon said:

Do you mean 3/1? 3 doesn't seem that bad to me.

Yes Khaosan has lost its charm. Does The General want Thailand to emulate Singapore? I definitely like some of the cleaning up but people go to Khaosan for the craziness. Or did.

Chatachuk should be cleaned up to look like Walmart!!!! Huh? What?

Oh I would love to see a Walmart with Walmart prices here!! 

[JennaBurrows]

4 hours ago, moutamine said:

Bangkok cannot stay a slump forever.  compared to high end tourism like South of France and Hong Kong.  

 

 

There is no issue with having aspirations to want to be a better country, improve financially and have a better life for the citizens. But you don't do that by destroying 20% of your GDP,  hurting tourism, stopping locals from earning money, and destroying the few organic tourist the country has - especially when the state cannot afford to invest anything in improving the country. 

 

Hong Kong - one of the major financial centres of the world. Spent close to nearly 50 billion dollars over the past decade investment on JUST tourist infrustucture. Projects like Disneyland, broadwalk, transport links. 

 

Singapore - Spent close to 30 Billion US Dollars developing Marina Bay area, including a whopping 8 Billion on Marina Bay Sands building. Spent nigh on 50 Billion dollars on developing Sentosa Island specifically to attract tourism - including Universal Studios Singapore, Golf resorts, improving the beaches, transport links, etc 

 

Dubai - has spent trillions on developing the country, including some of the biggest hotels, transport links, airports, second tallest building the world Burj Khalifa, etc

 

Paris, London, New York - some of the most historical cities in the world, full of unique culture, tourist attractions, free museums, first class eating establishments, live theatrical shows, historical buildings, etc 

 

Thailand - invested in Asiqtique a corporate market. Banned street food. Banned night markets. Improved pavements. 

 

 

 

 

[JennaBurrows]

3 hours ago, elgenon said:

When I read the Post there are amazing stories of how well Thailand is doing. Then I read the business news.The GDP is good because of the infrastructure programs. But where does all that money come from? My understanding is that their tax collection is not efficient.

 

From being a part of the United States of China - and the investment China put into the country, thus in a proxy way they control it. 

[JennaBurrows]

3 hours ago, Rally123 said:

That is wrong. Take Singapore in the early 70s. A shit hole somewhat similar to Bangkok now. Now look at Singapore, and tell me they made the wrong decision.

 

Utter idiotic statement. Destroying your cities culture, banning markets and street food does not turn you into Singapore. 

 

Singapore a once British Colony, primarily using that countries law and codes, low population, took the country into the financial sector, and became a low tax state in South East Asia, a financial markets global power, where investors felt safe to invest in a country that had very strict laws in place to protect them.

 

It had nothing to do with banning street food. The gentrification of Singapore is something the current leadership regrets and has eased back on some of it's earlier policies, including encourage a brain dead population to enjoy themselves. 

 

Having Thailand, Bangkok on the door step of 

 

The fact the state themselves is pumping billions upon billions into it's tourism industry, to entertain the locals, and have a society where people want to live and invest is a massive statement. They realise that they need investors and people to live and enjoy being in the country to make it hospitable for investment. Ironically having cultural cities like Bangkok, Hong Kong, etc on it's door step helps the country. 

 

Thailand, Bangkok is a not a leading financial centre. It doesn't have the laws and rules in place to ever allow it to be. It will never have the economy Singapore has, has a huge varied wealth of population, endemic corruption, and little to no infrustructure. Hell it doesn't even have democracy at the moment and is run by a military men. 

 

What Bangkok and so many Thailand areas is it has a worldclass culture, unique arenas like street food, markets, friendly population (used to be), and unique natural beaches. 

 

If Thailand wants to become a world player, it needs major investment, and you don't encourage investment by having a sterile place to live. 

 

Destroying Khao San Road, Destroying Sukhumvit will not turn Bangkok into Singapore. The two are not mutually exclusive. 

 

 

[JennaBurrows]

2 hours ago, CLW said:

3 hours ago, elgenon said:

When I read the Post there are amazing stories of how well Thailand is doing. Then I read the business news.The GDP is good because of the infrastructure programs. But where does all that money come from? My understanding is that their tax collection is not efficient.

I can't recall the exact number but the percentage of people paying income and other taxes is very small here. Amazing how the government can allocate the yearly budgets.

 

There are still many taxes they collect. Be it taxes on goods, certain foods and drinks, electronics. Property taxes, corporation taxes. And there is still a very small wealthy set of people in Thailand who have no choice to pay tax. 

 

The country spends next to nothing on health care, education, etc - so it's not like they need a huge tax income to spend, compared to say a semi socialist state like the UK, Norway, etc 

 

How much money will they actually get from street vendors if they actually tax them? Unless they are going to invest in education, health care, etc then why would you take money from them? They money they make will usually be taxed anyways in the long run when the buy foods, drinks, any consumer products. 

[lkv]

5 hours ago, elgenon said:

When I read the Post there are amazing stories of how well Thailand is doing. Then I read the business news.The GDP is good because of the infrastructure programs. But where does all that money come from? My understanding is that their tax collection is not efficient.

Because the data published in the Post comes from sources within Thailand, such as BOT, TAT, and so on, and much of the data they come out with is as fake as the IDs on Khaosan Road.

 

That's why.

[Rally123]

May be in about 12 years time those who want Khaosan Rd, and the likes, to stay as it is may regret that desire as they sail down the road. Thailand's government is beginning to put into action now a plan to combat the inevitable. Where as the tourists are crying and throwing their toys out of their prams.Tourists and the likes should find another place/city to buy their fake whatever and let the planners do their jobs.

 

Quote

 Bangkok is sinking, and may be underwater in 15 years. ... Bangkok routinely suffers from severe flooding during heavy rains. Floods in 2011 were particularly damaging, and prompted predictions that entire swaths of the city would be underwater before 2030.22 Jul 2015

Bangkok or Singapore? I know which one I'd choose. 

[colinneil]

22 minutes ago, Rally123 said:

May be in about 12 years time those who want Khaosan Rd, and the likes, to stay as it is may regret that desire as they sail down the road. Thailand's government is beginning to put into action now a plan to combat the inevitable. Where as the tourists are crying and throwing their toys out of their prams.Tourists and the likes should find another place/city to buy their fake whatever and let the planners do their jobs.

 

Bangkok or Singapore? I know which one I'd choose. 

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[africasiaeuro]

Back to Khaosarn for a visit? What for ?.. The hawkers were the main attraction. Rest is of little use. What is so difficult to understand.

 

[moontang]

streetfood with airport pricing.....good riddance.

[lovelomsak]

KSR is constantly changing on its own. I did not even know about it till I was in Thailand and some guys I met wanted to see it so I went with them. That was 30 years ago. I went back 10 years ago and it had changed so much all that was the same was the name and fake goods for sale. First time there it cheap questhouses,cheap pad thia  and plastic chair restaurants. Last time I went it was more like cool bars with bamboo chairs,Over priced Thai dishs,and big screen Tv's. May as well be in tourist town anywhere.

[JennaBurrows]

2 hours ago, Rally123 said:

May be in about 12 years time those who want Khaosan Rd, and the likes, to stay as it is may regret that desire as they sail down the road. Thailand's government is beginning to put into action now a plan to combat the inevitable. Where as the tourists are crying and throwing their toys out of their prams.Tourists and the likes should find another place/city to buy their fake whatever and let the planners do their jobs.

 

Bangkok or Singapore? I know which one I'd choose. 

 

Are you seriously waffling a connection between Khao San Road and a supposed theory of Bangkok going underwater in 15 years time?

 

How does banning street food, destroying Khao San Road prevent Bangkok from not flooding?

 

You need to go to the climate change thread or an economic thread. 

 

Infact you waffle on alot about Singapore, so i'm wondering what on earth you are doing in Bangkok. 

[JennaBurrows]

People are getting a little too fixated on Khao San Road. For me it's the bigger picture and what i am seeing in Bangkok on a daily Basis. 

 

The Sky news reporter in the UK said it best :

 

"But the hundreds of stallholders who say their livelihoods are now at risk don't believe this is just a limited clean up, rather part of a concerted effort to rid the city of all of its street vendors- a move they're determined to fight."

 

That's what i am seeing. Sanitization of every single corner street. Banning street food carts, banning vendors, any little street market that pop ups (even if it's nowhere near a residential area or any life), the flower market, Sukhumvit, etc etc 

[JemJem]

10 hours ago, moutamine said:

Bangkok cannot stay a slump forever.  Backpackers economy is shit compared to high end tourism like South of France and Hong Kong.  BKK is cleaning itself up and organizing the city to get up to standard with other major cities in the world.  We don't need these ugly looking college kids from Scandinavia and Europe to come visit with their tank top and slippers.  What this city needs is to attracted the rich and famous and revamp its image and jump start its reputation.  No more hookers and African pushers on Sukhumvit, no more tuktuk blasting there their music at night.

 

If you want crazyness, dirty streets and fake shit go to Laos, Burma or India... There plenty other shitty places in the world for that.

I'm all good with this new venture that the gvmt is undertaking!!

 

 

Gees. What harm is a relatively small area like Khao San (which you don't have to visit) doing to you ? Same for some sois on lower Sukhumvit.

 

This question is not just for you; it is for all who seem to despise Khao San and the folks who like to hang around there.

[nanglong218]

"One night in Bangkok is like a year in any other town"   Murray Head 1984.       But soon to be like a wet afternoon in Scunthorpe.

[Number 6]

The hilarious part it has been returned to the old way!

 

Decades ago cars could come and go on both sides of the road. I even recall in low season there wasn't even much traffic and half the businesses were closed by 1100pm in mid September October.

 

Just shitty food and junk that can be bought in any of the shops proper.

 

We won't be back! Thailand has never worried about that screed.

[Number 6]

I love street food and support the poor but I now support a ban on carts. I'm done with the grease in the streets and the waste dumped in public places such as around the MRT. Pack it up, you're done!

 

The food is also now often low quality. Raise the prices I don't want to eat crap.

[JennaBurrows]

7 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

I love street food and support the poor but I now support a ban on carts. I'm done with the grease in the streets and the waste dumped in public places such as around the MRT. Pack it up, you're done!

 

The food is also now often low quality. Raise the prices I don't want to eat crap.

 

Who is forcing you to eat it? 

 

And around which MRT have you seen waste dumped? Just a myth the old expats like to punnel. 

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed.

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, Number 6 said:

I love street food and support the poor but I now support a ban on carts. I'm done with the grease in the streets and the waste dumped in public places such as around the MRT. Pack it up, you're done!

 

The food is also now often low quality. Raise the prices I don't want to eat crap.

Well, it started off well...

[utalkin2me]

9 hours ago, moutamine said:

When I go on vacation to Italy or South of France, I don't look like a hobo... I have my nice white shorts and short sleeves shirts or polo European style!!!  Why do they have to look like they came out of a street fight with a grizzly bear??

I hear what you are saying. I honestly do not care what they wear, although i sort of awkwardly cringe when i see women show up at temples with no bra and half their breasts showing. I do not mind but i know thais do.

 

All you have to do in my book is just stay fairly clean, bring a bar of soap in that backpack for christ's sake, maybe some deodorant would not kill them. If they are halfway clean i am ok, but unfortunately not all of them are and it goes beyond inconvenience. They transmit bed bug species hotel to hotel and perhaps even into public spaces like the bts. It is just all around bad news. 

 

Three dollar hotel rooms are not good for any country in my opinion. And i think the thais did well to hopefully slow down the flow of the ultimate cheapskate travelers to thailand. 

 

 

[HerbalEd]

On 8/7/2018 at 8:03 AM, Lungstib said:

Seems like streets full of cars is fine but streets full of people need banning. Weird.

Streets are for cars, don't you know?

[JennaBurrows]

35 minutes ago, HerbalEd said:

Streets are for cars, don't you know?

The streets aren't car parks either. 

 

Many streets, iconic streets,  tourist streets, shopping areas around the world are often pedestrian only. 

 

The wider point being - a car parked on Khao San Road, a Tuk Tuk or Taxi parked up is completely find to authorities, when they probably take up more space than a stall, pollute the area up, and actually add no value to the area.

 

But i guess someone paid the brown paper to operate. 

[lamyai3]

8 hours ago, Number 6 said:

I love street food and support the poor but I now support a ban on carts. I'm done with the grease in the streets and the waste dumped in public places such as around the MRT. Pack it up, you're done!

 

The food is also now often low quality. Raise the prices I don't want to eat crap.

You obviously don't know much about the country if you think raising prices ever has anything to do with improving quality. And if you think supporting the poor involves trampling roughshod over their livelihood you're deluded. Many of these vendors are the salt of the earth, and eking out a living the only way they can for their families. This also goes for the office workers and regular people they serve, who are riled up at having their affordable lunchtime options taken away. 

 

The only sensible and compassionate way for the authorities to have dealt with this citywide is to break it down into the seperate issues involved. Start with the drains, allocate part of their enormous budget on proper maintenance and renewal. At the same time, overhaul garbage disposal procedures citywide. Find a solution for the proper disposal of cooking oils that doesn't involve pouring it down the drains and then it can be made a punishable offence. This isn't just good turn to the vendors incidentally - every household and restaurant in the country cooks with oil, the result is copious amounts of it get thrown down the drains every day, the vast majority of it by non vendors. No one is going to change local food preferences, but they could invest some of the billions they waste on other things by renewing drainage systems under the city, soi by soi. Just think how popular and electable the government would be if it had used it's immense power and budget for a project like this? In tandem with this, they could easily establish a fair play policy for vendors, involving proper safety and hygiene measures, waste disposal and reasonable encroachment. Then they can punish violators on a case by case basis. 

[lamyai3]

4 hours ago, JennaBurrows said:

The streets aren't car parks either. 

 

Many streets, iconic streets,  tourist streets, shopping areas around the world are often pedestrian only. 

 

The wider point being - a car parked on Khao San Road, a Tuk Tuk or Taxi parked up is completely find to authorities, when they probably take up more space than a stall, pollute the area up, and actually add no value to the area.

 

But i guess someone paid the brown paper to operate. 

Vehicles definitely take up more spaces than stalls, and unlike vendor carts that are easily movable even if unattended (which they rarely are), locked and parked vehicles can't be moved.

 

Ironic that given that the major reason given for the crackdown was public safety and emergency vehicle access, khaosan road and it's surroundings with regular vehicular traffic will soon have much more of an access problem than it ever had under the vendor friendly and tourist friendly version.

[Mac98]

On 8/7/2018 at 12:24 AM, NoMeAmes said:

why only the foreign hookers? What about the local hookers? 

Now you want to kill off all the fun? "I know, let's fly 16,000 miles rt and go shopping in Bangkok!"

[JennaBurrows]

6 minutes ago, Mac98 said:

Now you want to kill off all the fun? "I know, let's fly 16,000 miles rt and go shopping in Bangkok!"

 

You're forgetting those pavements though. I fly 24,000 miles just to see a good pavement. Wonder if the Chinese love them. 

 

 

 

[Mac98]

12 hours ago, JennaBurrows said:

People are getting a little too fixated on Khao San Road. For me it's the bigger picture and what i am seeing in Bangkok on a daily Basis. 

 

The Sky news reporter in the UK said it best :

 

"But the hundreds of stallholders who say their livelihoods are now at risk don't believe this is just a limited clean up, rather part of a concerted effort to rid the city of all of its street vendors- a move they're determined to fight."

 

That's what i am seeing. Sanitization of every single corner street. Banning street food carts, banning vendors, any little street market that pop ups (even if it's nowhere near a residential area or any life), the flower market, Sukhumvit, etc etc 

Agree. And when they finish, as W.C. Fields said, I'd rather be in Philadelphia.