If Trump’s Fundraising Numbers Are Any Clue, He’s in Serious Trouble

[webfact]

Canada PM says will press Saudi Arabia on rights, offers olive branch

By Allison Lampert and Aziz El Yaakoubi

 

Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau greets employees as he arrives for a press conference at CAE Inc., in Montreal, Quebec, Canada, August 8, 2018. REUTERS/Christinne Muschi

 

MONTREAL/RIYADH (Reuters) - Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau on Wednesday said he would keep pressing Saudi Arabia on civil liberties amid a major diplomatic dispute but also offered an apparent olive branch, saying the kingdom had made some progress on human rights.

 

Saudi Arabian Foreign Minister Adel al-Jubeir - infuriated by Canada's demand last week that jailed rights activists be released immediately - said earlier on Wednesday that there was no room for mediation, adding that Ottawa knew what it needed to do to "fix its big mistake."

 

Riyadh on Sunday froze new trade with Canada and expelled the Canadian ambassador. It also ended state-backed educational and medical programmes in Canada.

 

Trudeau - who referred to the matter as "a diplomatic difference of opinion" - told reporters in Montreal that Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland had held a long conversation with her Saudi counterpart on Tuesday, but gave no details.

 

"Diplomatic talks continue ... we don't want to have poor relations with Saudi Arabia. It is a country that has great significance in the world, that is making progress in the area of human rights," he said.

 

"But we will continue underscoring challenges where and when they exist, in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere," he continued.

 

On Friday, Canada expressed concern over the arrests of activists in Saudi Arabia, including prominent women's rights campaigner Samar Badawi.

 

Her brother Raif Badawi, a prominent blogger, is serving a 10-year sentence and has been publicly flogged for expressing dissenting opinions online. His wife and children live in Canada and are Canadian citizens.

 

A number of women's rights activists, who campaigned for the right to drive and an end to the kingdom's male guardianship system, have been targeted in a government crackdown in recent months, human rights' groups say.

 

Jubeir said the kingdom was still "considering additional measures" against Canada, but did not elaborate. Canadian investments in Saudi Arabia were still ongoing and would not be affected by the dispute, he said.

 

The Financial Times, citing unidentified sources, reported that the Saudi central bank and state pension funds had instructed their overseas asset managers to dispose of their Canadian equities, bonds and cash holdings "no matter the cost".

 

The central bank did not immediately respond to a Reuters query for comment. Canada's foreign ministry said it was seeking clarity from the Saudi Arabian government.

 

A source at a Saudi bank told Reuters it was contacted by the central bank on Wednesday asking for information about all its Canadian exposure – investments in Canada and foreign exchange positions.

 

THREAT TO INVESTMENT?

Since rising to power in 2015, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has courted Western allies to support his reform plans, offering billions of dollars of arms sales and promising to fight radicalism in the kingdom.

 

But the row threatens to slow Riyadh's foreign investment drive, a campaign already unsettled by a series of assertive foreign policy initiatives by the top oil exporter.

 

"Saudi Arabia simply cannot afford to alienate any other sections of the global community in the midst of its unpopular military engagement in Yemen, its indirect confrontation with Iran," commentator Jamal Khashoggi wrote in the Washington Post.

 

In addition to the trade freeze, Riyadh has stopped sending patients to Canadian hospitals and told hundreds of trainee doctors to leave Canada with only weeks' notice.

 

That could disrupt Canadian hospitals and end a 40-year-old program to train specialists for the kingdom.

 

Saudi authorities also suspended educational exchanges, and moved Saudi scholars to other countries. Saudi's state airline said it was suspending flights to and from Toronto.

 

Saudi Arabia's main state wheat-buying agency told grains exporters it will no longer accept Canadian-origin grains in international tenders, European traders said.

 

Bilateral trade between Canada and Saudi Arabia is worth nearly $4 billion a year. Canadian exports to Saudi Arabia were about $1.12 billion in 2017, or 0.2 percent of the total value of Canadian exports.

 

On Tuesday, Reuters reported that Canada planned to seek help from United Arab Emirates and Britain to defuse the row.

 

(Reporting by Allison Lampert in Montreal and Aziz El Yaakoubi in Riyadh; additional reporting by Davide Barscubia and Katie Paul in Dubai, Hesham Hajali in Cairo, David Ljunggren in Ottawa, Fergal Smith, Allison Smith and Danya Hajjaji in Toronto, and John Benny in Bengaluru, Editing by William Maclean and Rosalba O'Brien)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-08-09

[Lungstib]

If 'fixing its big mistake' is withdrawing what is true and replacing it with a kindly worded lie then I think Canada should stick with whats been said. Standing up for certain civilian rights and freedoms should be a Canadian imperative and its only right to speak out against govts that abuse them and their citizens. What other supposedly free minded democratic countries should have done is announce exactly the same statement and see if the KSA would isolate itself from them all. 

[Snow Leopard]

Not saying i don't agree with the Canadian PM and the views of the Canadian people on this because i do. Its a bit of an OG here though i think. Engage brain before opening mouth. No matter what your opinion is, rightly or wrongly countries have diplomats and ambassadors to express their views directly and in private to the relevant persons in the said country. Not in public eye to gain points. Never a good idea.

[geriatrickid]

1 hour ago, Lungstib said:

If 'fixing its big mistake' is withdrawing what is true and replacing it with a kindly worded lie then I think Canada should stick with whats been said. Standing up for certain civilian rights and freedoms should be a Canadian imperative and its only right to speak out against govts that abuse them and their citizens. What other supposedly free minded democratic countries should have done is announce exactly the same statement and see if the KSA would isolate itself from them all. 

And they have not. Germany quickly baked down when it blundered. Sweden's  progressive feminist government  backed down and apologized. None of Canada's "friends" or supposed allies has  spoken out on Canada's behalf or supported the country. There is a reason for it and it is because Canadian politicians bungled this.

[SOTIRIOS]

...the other side....

 

...those that slap the terms...dictatorships....regimes....and terrorist states.....on others.....

 

...and do as they please....

 

...great humanity...great civilization....

 

...just a global gang and bully system...

[kamahele]

They should buy their oil from their friends in Qatar, Iran, the USA or any number of other countries exporting oil. I'm sure its in the back of the prince's mind that these threats which have yet to include oil will scare Canada into thinking oil is next.

[pegman]

1 hour ago, geriatrickid said:

And they have not. Germany quickly baked down when it blundered. Sweden's  progressive feminist government  backed down and apologized. None of Canada's "friends" or supposed allies has  spoken out on Canada's behalf or supported the country. There is a reason for it and it is because Canadian politicians bungled this.

Bungled what? Canada wears big pants and can state the obvious without someone holding our hand. Trudeau needs to stand his ground and seriously consider canceling all munition sales to this known exporter of terrorist ideology. Set an example. I'm proud we are leading in calling that thug regime out. I hope the Canadian gov steps up and does the same to the Apartheid State of Israel too. 

Raising unemployment that's now at 12.9% may mean that the Dark Prince is trying to find a change in focus for his populous. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-08/a-target-saudis-can-ill-afford-to-miss-and-it-s-not-aramco-ipo

Edited August 9, 2018 by pegman

[nauseus]

28 minutes ago, kamahele said:

They should buy their oil from their friends in Qatar, Iran, the USA or any number of other countries exporting oil. I'm sure its in the back of the prince's mind that these threats which have yet to include oil will scare Canada into thinking oil is next.

What can oil have to do with it? Canada and Saudi both have heaps?   

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, pegman said:

Bungled what? Canada wears big pants and can state the obvious without someone holding our hand. Trudeau needs to stand his ground and seriously consider canceling all munition sales to this known exporter of terrorist ideology. Set an example. I'm proud we are leading in calling that thug regime out. I hope the Canadian gov steps up and does the same to the Apartheid State of Israel too. 

Raising unemployment that's now at 12.9% may mean that the Dark Prince is trying to find a change in focus for his populous. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-08/a-target-saudis-can-ill-afford-to-miss-and-it-s-not-aramco-ipo

 

Canada - not exactly a world leader or one of the most important nations, without being unkind. They've upset the Saudis poking their nose in somewhat clumsily and now face the back lash.

 

None of the Western nations have spoken out in support.

 

Wonder how Canada would react if KSA or any other country started making demands on how Native Canadians have/are treated?

 

 

[lannarebirth]

It is to laugh! All these countries who would single out Saudi Arabia for its human rights abuses are all genuflecting and doing big business with China and accepting their immigrants as long as they can pay the price of admission. Saudi Arabia might be a distant 10th to China in human rights abuses.

[bristolboy]

49 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Canada - not exactly a world leader or one of the most important nations, without being unkind. They've upset the Saudis poking their nose in somewhat clumsily and now face the back lash.

 

None of the Western nations have spoken out in support.

 

Wonder how Canada would react if KSA or any other country started making demands on how Native Canadians have/are treated?

 

 

I seriously doubt they would recall their ambassador and trash economic relations. Because the people who run Canada are far more grownup than the hotheaded and fiasco-prone Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia.

[pegman]

46 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

It is to laugh! All these countries who would single out Saudi Arabia for its human rights abuses are all genuflecting and doing big business with China and accepting their immigrants as long as they can pay the price of admission. Saudi Arabia might be a distant 10th to China in human rights abuses.

So when last did China crucify and behead someone?

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6970256/saudi-arabia-beheads-and-crucifies-killer-who-broke-into-womans-home-and-stabbed-her-to-death-in-rare-christ-style-execution/

[lannarebirth]

8 minutes ago, pegman said:

So when last did China crucify and behead someone?

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6970256/saudi-arabia-beheads-and-crucifies-killer-who-broke-into-womans-home-and-stabbed-her-to-death-in-rare-christ-style-execution/

 

Well, one never knows what happens when people are "disappeared". What we do know is, that they don't come back.

 

I'll see your capital punishment of the odd scofflaw and raise you a pervasive police state of well over 1 Billion persons.

 

https://www.economist.com/briefing/2018/05/31/china-has-turned-xinjiang-into-a-police-state-like-no-other

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2157883/drones-facial-recognition-and-social-credit-system-10-ways-china

 

https://www.fastcompany.com/90177771/chinas-orwellian-social-credit-system-is-expanding-overseas

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-china-espionage-chris-wray-2018-3

 

https://www.boredpanda.com/pollution-china/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic

[zydeco]

1 hour ago, pegman said:

So when last did China crucify and behead someone?

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6970256/saudi-arabia-beheads-and-crucifies-killer-who-broke-into-womans-home-and-stabbed-her-to-death-in-rare-christ-style-execution/

Chinese work on a bigger scale. They're too busy putting Uighurs into concentration camps.   https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/25/at-least-120000-muslim-uighurs-held-in-chinese-re-education-camps-report

Edited August 9, 2018 by zydeco

[mikebike]

3 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

I'll see your capital punishment of the odd scofflaw and raise you a pervasive police state of well over 1 Billion persons.

Political activists and journalists are scofflaws?

[300sd]

Well SA, you have reared your ugly head, (we always knew it was there). You could have told Canada to "mind your own business." You are filth to treat women the way you do. If I was running every country in the world, you SA, would not have a trading partner.

[bristolboy]

4 hours ago, zydeco said:

Chinese work on a bigger scale. They're too busy putting Uighurs into concentration camps.   https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/25/at-least-120000-muslim-uighurs-held-in-chinese-re-education-camps-report

It's good to see you're taking the side of Muslims.

[zydeco]

5 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

It's good to see you're taking the side of Muslims.

Nothing against them at all. I have no desire to alter the culture, values, or political system of any muslim country. Similarly, I do not want them to alter mine. I believe in diversity. Don't you?

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Nothing against them at all. I have no desire to alter the culture, values, or political system of any muslim country. Similarly, I do not want them to alter mine. I believe in diversity. Don't you?

So you're saying that the Muslims inside China are not trying to alter the culture, values, or political system of China? And therefore the Chinese are wrong to try and repress them?

[zydeco]

36 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

So you're saying that the Muslims inside China are not trying to alter the culture, values, or political system of China? And therefore the Chinese are wrong to try and repress them?

Depends on what you mean by "China." Uighurs, like Tibetans, were a separate people in an independent land. China took them over and is now systematically depopulating them and replacing Uighurs with Han. Yes, I sympathize with the Uighurs the loss of the land and identity. But that doesn't mean I want to open up my country to Islamafication. Plenty of room on this planet for people to live in the systems they prefer without impinging on each other.

[bristolboy]

34 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Depends on what you mean by "China." Uighurs, like Tibetans, were a separate people in an independent land. China took them over and is now systematically depopulating them and replacing Uighurs with Han. Yes, I sympathize with the Uighurs the loss of the land and identity. But that doesn't mean I want to open up my country to Islamafication. Plenty of room on this planet for people to live in the systems they prefer without impinging on each other.

So you believe that the Uighurs, although they are Muslims, will respect the internal borders of other Chinese provinces? And they will not wage jihad?

[Scott]

Please stay on the topic of the situation between SA and Canada.  

 

It's important that there is a fundamental difference with regard to individual and human rights with pretty much everyone except Western Culture.   Western Culture emphasizes individual and human rights.  Other cultures hold the right of the dominant culture in higher regard than any minority group or individual.   It's a fundamental difference.  

[Canuckabroad]

5 hours ago, zydeco said:

Depends on what you mean by "China." Uighurs, like Tibetans, were a separate people in an independent land. China took them over and is now systematically depopulating them and replacing Uighurs with Han. Yes, I sympathize with the Uighurs the loss of the land and identity. But that doesn't mean I want to open up my country to Islamafication. Plenty of room on this planet for people to live in the systems they prefer without impinging on each other.

I do agree that people should be able to live in their systems without impinging upon each other.  But it troubles me that in some of those systems (Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan) half the population are treated as cattle, liable to be killed or mutilated if they complain about the system, and can't even leave the country if they wanted to.

[pegman]

8 hours ago, 300sd said:

Well SA, you have reared your ugly head, (we always knew it was there). You could have told Canada to "mind your own business." You are filth to treat women the way you do. If I was running every country in the world, you SA, would not have a trading partner.

There are voices of reason out there. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/08/the-guardian-view-on-saudi-arabia-time-to-back-canada