UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[brewsterbudgen]

NO WE SHOULD NOT!
The people of Great Britain and Northern Ireland took a democratic vote to leave the European Union, it was an all inclusive YES or NO vote for EVERYBODY with a Brish passport.
 
we did not at any time take any other vote for amendments, or deals, and the form of the question was forced on the Government by the remainers before the vote was taken because the original wording of the question was deemed to guarantee the vote would go the way it actually did, and they wanted to use the scare factor in a simple yes or no vote thinking that fear would prevail.
 
However they and the Government of the day completely misunderstood the ground root feelings of all of the people that fear would only win over the remainers and not the knowledgable people of Great Britain, and the remainers lost the DEMOCRATIC vote.
 
Now for those of you who have no idea here is a few facts for you to suck on.
 
when the vote was announced.
 
Leaders of countries around the world rushed to our shores to broker trade deals.
Manufacturing along with exports have literally gone through the roof.
job creation has taken off and we are now the envy of the European Union.
Unemployment has gone from a stagnant 12% to under 4% and still falling
These are just a few facts fully reported and substantiated and upon Brett many more benefits of being outside will be forthcoming.
 
Finally for the remainers and others who are trying all they can to userp the will of the people in a Democratic vote 
YOU LOST 
Now wake up and smell the coffee and get used to it.
 
And for those who live in Thailand or another country and think that Brexit is wrong just answer these questions.
How would you know?
When was the last time you LIVED in England?
Why did you leave England? You did not do it because you loved England, or because you cared about England.
You left because you wanted to live a lifestyle that gave you a freedom that you could not achieve in England because of restrictions, dictates and punitive taxes forced upon you by European controllers and I do not blame you in any way for that, but the fact is for whatever your reasons were, you exited your country so how can you justifiably say Brexit was wrong.

So the people can't change their mind? Why are hardcore Brexiteers so scared of letting the British people decide?

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[Stupooey]

5 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

And what options would you propose go on the ballot paper?  Because if Remain is on the ballot paper the EU will offer us the worst Brexit deal possible.

 

I'm yet to see a Remainer provide a valid argument on this point. So go for it!

 

OK, I'll go for it. We know of course that the EU don't want Brexit to happen, but they are probably resigned to it by now, so have little incentive to hold out any olive branches. For them, the light at the end of the tunnel would be another referendum potentially reversing the result of the 2016 one.

 

We also know that relatively few voters have changed their minds since the previous referendum, the apparent shift towards Remain being down to natural wastage affecting Leave more, and new voters being seen to be mainly in favour of Remain. The overriding factor, though, that has seen some previous Remainers change to Leave has been the perceived intransigence of the EU side. They must therefore realise that their best bet for securing a Remain vote in another referendum is to appear to be the good guys. On that basis it would be in their interest to soften their approach prior to any further Leave/Remain vote.

 

As someone who shares the Attlee/Thatcher view of referenda I am not personally in favour of another, but if it is the only way of ensuring that the UK does not take such a momentous step against the wishes of the 2019 electorate, which I am sure nobody would want, then it may be inevitable.

 

[aright]

23 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

So the people can't change their mind? Why are hardcore Brexiteers so scared of letting the British people decide?

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Of course we can change our mind.

 

[CG1 Blue]

17 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

OK, I'll go for it. We know of course that the EU don't want Brexit to happen, but they are probably resigned to it by now, so have little incentive to hold out any olive branches. For them, the light at the end of the tunnel would be another referendum potentially reversing the result of the 2016 one.

 

We also know that relatively few voters have changed their minds since the previous referendum, the apparent shift towards Remain being down to natural wastage affecting Leave more, and new voters being seen to be mainly in favour of Remain. The overriding factor, though, that has seen some previous Remainers change to Leave has been the perceived intransigence of the EU side. They must therefore realise that their best bet for securing a Remain vote in another referendum is to appear to be the good guys. On that basis it would be in their interest to soften their approach prior to any further Leave/Remain vote.

 

As someone who shares the Attlee/Thatcher view of referenda I am not personally in favour of another, but if it is the only way of ensuring that the UK does not take such a momentous step against the wishes of the 2019 electorate, which I am sure nobody would want, then it may be inevitable.

 

That's certainly an interesting take on it - that the EU might offer a good deal in order to improve UK public perception of them prior to any 2nd ref.

But it would be a fine balancing act; to make it good, but not too good. If the deal is too good, those voters who were scared into voting Remain might just switch sides.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

OK, I'll go for it. We know of course that the EU don't want Brexit to happen, but they are probably resigned to it by now, so have little incentive to hold out any olive branches. For them, the light at the end of the tunnel would be another referendum potentially reversing the result of the 2016 one.

At this point UK's internal fighting plays well to EU's hand. 

 

We know that even if there would be a agreed deal between EU and UK. UK's hardliners would make it impossible to be accepted by UK. Therefore it's no-deal and no-transformation period.

 

The rest of the world has already seen what kind of mess Brexit created. Pound has already dropped 20% and it will go much lower once no-deal is announced. UK keeps on fighting with herself now and long after Brexit is reality. Britain's trust and respect is long gone. 

 

Meanwhile we can keep on taking your businesses, which want to survive in 20's. Lots of good opportunities in the continental Europe.

 

Let the Brexit festivals begin. Whee!

[CG1 Blue]

8 minutes ago, oilinki said:

At this point UK's internal fighting plays well to EU's hand. 

 

We know that even if there would be a agreed deal between EU and UK. UK's hardliners would make it impossible to be accepted by UK. Therefore it's no-deal and no-transformation period.

 

The rest of the world has already seen what kind of mess Brexit created. Pound has already dropped 20% and it will go much lower once no-deal is announced. UK keeps on fighting with herself now and long after Brexit is reality. Britain's trust and respect is long gone. 

 

Meanwhile we can keep on taking your businesses, which want to survive in 20's. Lots of good opportunities in the continental Europe.

 

Let the Brexit festivals begin. Whee!

I think you know deep down that the EU project is doomed. Even more so without the UK to keep those power hungry EU bureaucrats in line. Get Finland out before it all comes crashing down!

[BwindiBoy]

22 minutes ago, oilinki said:

At this point UK's internal fighting plays well to EU's hand. 

 

We know that even if there would be a agreed deal between EU and UK. UK's hardliners would make it impossible to be accepted by UK. Therefore it's no-deal and no-transformation period.

 

The rest of the world has already seen what kind of mess Brexit created. Pound has already dropped 20% and it will go much lower once no-deal is announced. UK keeps on fighting with herself now and long after Brexit is reality. Britain's trust and respect is long gone. 

 

Meanwhile we can keep on taking your businesses, which want to survive in 20's. Lots of good opportunities in the continental Europe.

 

Let the Brexit festivals begin. Whee!

 

The Pound Sterling currently buys at least 10 cents more than it did when I went to France in 2008, so please stop your scaremongering nonsense.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I think you know deep down that the EU project is doomed. Even more so without the UK to keep those power hungry EU bureaucrats in line. Get Finland out before it all comes crashing down!

Nah, EU is just getting started. One member, which has always had an attitude 'half in, half out', is now found what it really wants and will be out. This probably will improve the atmosphere inside EU. 

 

Now there will be 2 big dog. Germany for economy and France for military. I think that works out well.

 

As you know, EU is run by our individual countries and our EU at Byssels simply executes what we want it to do. 

 

I'm sure UK will feel much closer to it's big brother USA from Brexit onwards. After all, it's good to have friend around in this big world. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, BwindiBoy said:

 

The Pound Sterling currently buys at least 10 cents more than it did when I went to France in 2008, so please stop your scaremongering nonsense.

GBP to EURO is now 1.12

GBP to EURO on 2nd Oct 2008 was 1.27.

 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

So the people can't change their mind? Why are hardcore Brexiteers so scared of letting the British people decide?

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not afraid,

that was already arranged, cameron saw to that

the decision was leave

hence, cameron left

now, uk will leave (maybe?)

 

[melvinmelvin]

8 minutes ago, oilinki said:

GBP to EURO is now 1.12

GBP to EURO on 2nd Oct 2008 was 1.27.

 

 

should aim for 1 euro = 1 pound (shouldn't take long)

will be easier for all parties

integers are easier to deal with than floats/fractions

 

[CG1 Blue]

12 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Now there will be 2 big dog. Germany for economy and France for military. I think that works out well.

 

As you know, EU is run by our individual countries and our EU at Byssels simply executes what we want it to do. 

Where can I buy some of those rose tinted spectacles you wear? ????

 

Jokes aside, you have your view of the EU and I have mine. As I've said before, I do understand why smaller countries like Finland, Belgium etc. get some comfort from being looked after by the EU.

 

Once the EU project crashes and burns, you guys should all form a trading partnership.  Trading only.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

 

Jokes aside, you have your view of the EU and I have mine. As I've said before, I do understand why smaller countries like Finland, Belgium etc. get some comfort from being looked after by the EU.

 

Once the EU project crashes and burns, you guys should all form a trading partnership.  Trading only.

I think it's perfectly ok that people have different ideas and opinions. 

 

Nordic countries have had open borders since 1952. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Passport_Union

That has been handy. 

Quote

The Nordic Passport Union allows citizens of the Nordic countries – Iceland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and Finland – to travel and reside in another Nordic country (excluding Greenland[1] and Svalbard) without any travel documentation (e.g. a passport or national identity card) or a residence permit. 

 

[Jip99]

28 minutes ago, oilinki said:

 

 

Now there will be 2 big dog. Germany for economy and France for military. I think that works out well.

 

 

 

The other way round I think - it almost worked nearly 80 years ago.

 

We salvaged that one I believe - not sure if you were involved Oili....

Edited October 2, 2018 by Jip99

[nauseus]

44 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Nah, EU is just getting started. One member, which has always had an attitude 'half in, half out', is now found what it really wants and will be out. This probably will improve the atmosphere inside EU. 

 

Now there will be 2 big dog. Germany for economy and France for military. I think that works out well.

 

As you know, EU is run by our individual countries and our EU at Byssels simply executes what we want it to do. 

 

I'm sure UK will feel much closer to it's big brother USA from Brexit onwards. After all, it's good to have friend around in this big world. 

 

Yes, Finland is obviously in command! 

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

The other way round I think - it almost worked nearly 80 years ago.

 

We salvaged that one I believe - not sure if you were involved Oili....

While I thank you for thinking that my wisdom is at 100 years old's level, I must unfortunately inform you that I'm not even close to that age. No, I wasn't involved.

[BwindiBoy]

2 hours ago, oilinki said:

GBP to EURO is now 1.12

GBP to EURO on 2nd Oct 2008 was 1.27.

 

 

My mistake; it was January 2009 and the rate we received from the atm was £1 = e1.02 .

[Jip99]

Just now, BwindiBoy said:

 

My mistake; it was January 2009 and the rate we received from the atm was £1 = e1.02 .

 

 

Around that time I bought petrol outside Paris @ 1.01

[BwindiBoy]

2 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

should aim for 1 euro = 1 pound (shouldn't take long)

will be easier for all parties

integers are easier to deal with than floats/fractions

 

 

Back to where it was at the start of January 2009 (I incorrectly said 2008 previously).

[BwindiBoy]

7 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Around that time I bought petrol outside Paris @ 1.01

 

Yet some of the Remoaners on here won't believe either of us unless we can "prove" it. ????

[kwilco]

What Brexiteers fail to understand is they are in fact nothing but a tiny minority.

This is a European issuescale and it really doesn't mafter whether they have a small majority on one day in one of the 28 counties, they will always be no more than a minority in Europe.

[kwilco]

Another thing that perplexed me about Quitlings is the fact that they have an almost total lack of singularity of aim....they are in fact just a melee of squabbling factions all pursuing their own agendas, none of which look like ever coming to fruition. (Take the current situation between May and PM in waiting Boris Johnson and the hovering vulture Rees Mogg...The whole process supported by a bunch of bigots and terrorists from Northern Ireland who truly have no idea what the others are doing).

 

How can anyone in their right mind (both psychologically and politically) think that this situation could have a satisfactory conclusion?

 

It used to be dismissed as "project fear" but I now see that even the most virulent quitlings appear to have lowered the bar to "hiccups" (hiccoughs?)

 

The only possible result of Brexit can be years of political infighting until the UK or what's left of it rejoins the EU

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, BwindiBoy said:

 

Yet some of the Remoaners on here won't believe either of us unless we can "prove" it. ????

Proof, logic are all part of critical thinking, something that is sadly lacking amongst most of the argumentsvput forward by the Brexit camp....... I don't just take my word for it.

I very much doubt that the average Brexiteer even knows what critical thinking is.

Correct me if I'm wrong with your definition.

[kwilco]

May has declared yesterday that she will end freedom of movement "once and for all"

Quitlings, you realise that includes you?

[adammike]

6 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

So the people can't change their mind? Why are hardcore Brexiteers so scared of letting the British people decide?

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He can't make up his mind what he is British or English poor lad is confused.

[Janner1]

7 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

So the people can't change their mind? Why are hardcore Brexiteers so scared of letting the British people decide?

 

Pleasevtell us all what part of “ All the people of Great Britain and Northern Ireland were given a DEMOCRATIC vote to stay in or leave the European Union? “.

Hardcore as you refer to them are NOT scared to let the people decide, the people DID decide and they said LEAVE .

Do you really think that it would be democratic to go against the majority?

 

OR maybe you believe that GB & NI should go the way of Southern Ireland wherein they were forced to vote 3 times because twice they voted NO to joining but on the third time the people were bought by EUROPE in that they were told that if they voted yes money would be free flowing and at preferential loan rates.

so who can blame the Irish, here was a way to rise above the general state of poverty that prevailed and start businesses, buy homes etc, etc, and they accepted the bribe laid before them by the bunch of sharks commonly known as the unaccountable 21, only to find that after the vote went to yes but not before considerable loans had already been taken out this same bunch recalled all those loans forcing most to lose everything and become bankrupt along with the country as a whole.

 

 

[tebee]

1 hour ago, Janner1 said:

 

Pleasevtell us all what part of “ All the people of Great Britain and Northern Ireland were given a DEMOCRATIC vote to stay in or leave the European Union? “.

Hardcore as you refer to them are NOT scared to let the people decide, the people DID decide and they said LEAVE .

Do you really think that it would be democratic to go against the majority?

 

OR maybe you believe that GB & NI should go the way of Southern Ireland wherein they were forced to vote 3 times because twice they voted NO to joining but on the third time the people were bought by EUROPE in that they were told that if they voted yes money would be free flowing and at preferential loan rates.

so who can blame the Irish, here was a way to rise above the general state of poverty that prevailed and start businesses, buy homes etc, etc, and they accepted the bribe laid before them by the bunch of sharks commonly known as the unaccountable 21, only to find that after the vote went to yes but not before considerable loans had already been taken out this same bunch recalled all those loans forcing most to lose everything and become bankrupt along with the country as a whole.

 

 

one million brits who have live outside the UK for more than 15 years were disenfranchised - some of these are directly affected by the result of the vote  

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

one million brits who have live outside the UK for more than 15 years were disenfranchised - some of these are directly affected by the result of the vote  

 

can they vote in GEs?

 

I mean that one million.

 

[tebee]

8 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

can they vote in GEs?

 

I mean that one million.

 

No - neither in the country they live in or the Uk 

[BwindiBoy]

5 hours ago, kwilco said:

Proof, logic are all part of critical thinking, something that is sadly lacking amongst most of the argumentsvput forward by the Brexit camp....... I don't just take my word for it.

I very much doubt that the average Brexiteer even knows what critical thinking is.

Correct me if I'm wrong with your definition.

 

My definition?  What on Earth are you talking about?  Can you provide proof that I've provided a definition?!