UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

Back in the early 80s computer systems were only in limited domains, and extremely limited in application. The PC and internet had not been invented. Inter-organisational computer networks were not in use commercially, or only in an extremely limited form. Technologies such as RFIDs hadn't been developed commercially. These technologies are now in use in a variety of border situations, and new applications emerge with regularity.

 

Your point about human nature is a valid one. But it hasn't disappeared with the EU, witness the emissions scams pepertrated by some of the German car makers for example.

Same old brexiteer thinking and paranoia. Make out that brexit bureaucracy is irrelevant and then point the finger at the Europeans.

[sandyf]

Mad cow disease seen in Scotland should be some sort of reminder why the EU would be concerned about an open land border under different agricultural regimes.

 

The news that a cow in Scotland has been diagnosed with bovine spongiform encephalopathy, better known as BSE or “mad cow disease”, has reawakened the terrible memories of the 1980s and 90s epidemic .

That outbreak saw 180,000 cattle infected and millions slaughtered, but also introduced the public to the terrifying human cousin of BSE, known as variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (vCJD).

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/mad-cow-disease-scotland-aberdeen-bse-cjd-prion-john-gummer-beef-burger-a8591066.html

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

I think you're right about the first point. But the 2nd point (what price would the EU extract for accepting the UK's cancelling A50), senior German figures have already stated that we would lose a number of our current benefits, for example the rebate. 

 

About the "about face". It seems to me certain that the gov't wouldn't. They have no mandate for doing so.

 

If there were a GE with A50 cancellation on Labour's manifesto, and Labour won, and this all happened within the timeframe, then it's a possibility; and there is a theoretical possibility as I said earlier, but in practical terms, no. All imho of course.

 

The end-game as I see it at present is all about the parliamentary arithmetic, and there's no consensus on this. If Labour vote everything down, we could end up in a "no deal"; if May can get some Labour support then we could end up with an approval of what she's cooking up in the light of an alternative "no deal"; there's also the possibility that we'll move to the FTA Barnier-Tusk-Johnson-Mogg model and it gets passed in the light of the alternative "no deal". EFTA and EEA seem to have dropped by the wayside.

 

"No deal" would seem to get us to the end point of freedom to control our own trade policy most quickly. 

I have it on good authority that if the UK opted to remain then all existing opt outs and rebates would be retained

 

All sane people agree that remain is the best option together with fixing the gross UK inequality which was the problem in the first place (and apply EU labour movement rules more rigorously including noting who is in, who is out, and what their name is!????)

[vinny41]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I have it on good authority that if the UK opted to remain then all existing opt outs and rebates would be retained

 

All sane people agree that remain is the best option together with fixing the gross UK inequality which was the problem in the first place (and apply EU labour movement rules more rigorously including noting who is in, who is out, and what their name is!????)

Not according to  The European Union’s budget chief Guenther Oettinger said on Friday Britain would lose its rebate even in the “pleasant but improbable” event of it staying in the bloc.

After Brexit, the EU wants to wind down in stages all the rebates, including those that the Netherlands or Denmark enjoy. The bloc’s executive European Commission has proposed to have none in the next common budget for 2021-2024.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-rebate/britain-would-lose-eu-rebate-even-if-it-decided-to-ditch-brexit-eu-official-idUKKCN1MM1PV

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

Brexiteers are such lovely people....how could anyone want to be aligned with the kind of people whose myopic vision of ;life is based on pig-ignorance?

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/brexit-hate-crime-eu-citizens-xenophobia-racism-police-bracing-march-2019-article-50-a8590921.html

 

Typical (project) fear-mongering. There are going to be tiny radical minorities in any group but here you quite wrongly label all Brexiteers as condoning and being aligned with this kind of behaviour. It is you who own the limited vision and pig-ignorance that you describe!

[tebee]

Toyota voices it's worries over a no deal brexit

 

 http://www.jama-english.jp/release/comment/2018/181019.html

 

They don't criticize people lightly.

[Grouse]

20 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Not according to  The European Union’s budget chief Guenther Oettinger said on Friday Britain would lose its rebate even in the “pleasant but improbable” event of it staying in the bloc.

After Brexit, the EU wants to wind down in stages all the rebates, including those that the Netherlands or Denmark enjoy. The bloc’s executive European Commission has proposed to have none in the next common budget for 2021-2024.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-rebate/britain-would-lose-eu-rebate-even-if-it-decided-to-ditch-brexit-eu-official-idUKKCN1MM1PV

Well of course they would say that wouldn't they!

 

My well connected authority states it would be a small price to pay to stop the nonsense and concentrate on more important issues such as Poland and Hungary (Italy is just a tantrum)

[vinny41]

12 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Well of course they would say that wouldn't they!

 

My well connected authority states it would be a small price to pay to stop the nonsense and concentrate on more important issues such as Poland and Hungary (Italy is just a tantrum)

You need to stop listening to your nameless well connected authority ( Tony Blair ) no one believes him anymore

[Grouse]

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

You need to stop listening to your nameless well connected authority ( Tony Blair ) no one believes him anymore

No. My well connected authority is not only well connected by highly educated; unimpeachable I would say.

[vinny41]

You ignored Iraq WAR protesters!' Andrew Neil SAVAGES Alastair Campbell Brexit demands

ANDREW Neil challenged arch-Remoaner Alastair Campbell to explain why the British Government should listen to Remainers when the Blair Government "ignored" millions marching to stop the Iraq War.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1033650/Brexit-news-Andrew-Neil-Andrew-Neil-BBC-Iraq-War-second-referendum-march-London-latest

[vinny41]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

No. My well connected authority is not only well connected by highly educated; unimpeachable I would say.

but still without a name so doesn't matter what he/she says pure bull 

 

[Grouse]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

You ignored Iraq WAR protesters!' Andrew Neil SAVAGES Alastair Campbell Brexit demands

ANDREW Neil challenged arch-Remoaner Alastair Campbell to explain why the British Government should listen to Remainers when the Blair Government "ignored" millions marching to stop the Iraq War.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1033650/Brexit-news-Andrew-Neil-Andrew-Neil-BBC-Iraq-War-second-referendum-march-London-latest

Because remainers tend to be better informed, better educated, doing better and better looking.

[mommysboy]

When a deal does go through Tories are going to be hated- I wouldn't be surprised if they're not knocked out of politics for a couple of decades or more, just as Labour in the 70's.  Yet, I don't see Labour being so electable because of its very left policies and rather ambiguous stance on Brexit. I wonder if we'll see this in UK as Green issues will dominate in the future:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/19/adults-in-the-room-greens-surge-across-europe-as-centre-left-flounders.

 

I, for one, think Brexit has been a futile, smoke filled exercise to ignore the pressing needs of the day that don't quite fit Tory dogma: failing economic model, the dangers of of over production/consumption, gross wage inequality, and of course, global warming.

[vinny41]

10 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Because remainers tend to be better informed, better educated, doing better and better looking.

And still ignored 

[BwindiBoy]

7 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

And still ignored 

And still irrelevant.

[tebee]

26 minutes ago, BwindiBoy said:

And still irrelevant.

You know, it's exactly this attitude that makes us fight.

 

Democracy doesn't work like this.

 

 

[My Thai Life]

4 hours ago, mommysboy said:

There will be a deal. This makes me thinks so: 'In a recent meeting with Jeremy Corbyn, Barnier told the Labour leader that nothing signed today on the future trade deal would tie his hands should there be a general election during a transition

period.

Yes I read this article too earlier today. No doubt that's why Barnier offered to extend the transition yesterday. A few points:

 

> To me this is pretty good evidence of the EU meddling in internal affairs.  It has a habit of doing that: Italy, Greece, Poland, Hungary, Ireland, Netherlands, on and on. Confirms to the Leavers that they were right, and no doubt makes new Leave recruits.

 

> So the EU is threatening to renege on agreements even before they are made? Seems that by doing so  Barnier is simply adding to support for "no deal".

 

> My understanding is that a "no deal" has a zero transition period.

 

> Whatever you think of May, and many Tories would agree with you, Corbyn would be far worse. He has absolutely no experience of government. I remember Corbyn from Islington in the late '70s: he was like a student union rep who couldn't believe he'd become an MP, and not much has changed. He has spent his whole "career" fighting against his own party. And he is a Leaver. There is no common ground between his core views and the EU's red lines, ie government intervention in the economy. Which is pretty farcical when you think of the CAP, the biggest government subsidy programme in the world.

Edited October 19, 2018 by My Thai Life

[BwindiBoy]

3 minutes ago, tebee said:

You know, it's exactly this attitude that makes us fight.

 

Democracy doesn't work like this.

 

 

It's insulting comments against us visionary Brexit voters that brought about my comment.

[tebee]

1 minute ago, BwindiBoy said:

It's insulting comments against us visionary Brexit voters that brought about my comment.

When two tribes go to war......

[BwindiBoy]

9 minutes ago, tebee said:

When two tribes go to war......

Relax ???? 

[tebee]

2 minutes ago, BwindiBoy said:

Relax ???? 

Don't do it.....

[My Thai Life]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

Mad cow disease seen in Scotland should be some sort of reminder why the EU would be concerned about an open land border under different agricultural regimes.

 

> If the EU is so concerned about the risk to cattle of an open land border, I guess they could close the border on the Irish side. 

> Actually, the Irish are far more concerned about the potential of reduced animal exports to NI post Brexit.

> All animals entering NI from Gt Britain are currently checked at Larne, and this will continue.

> It would be a simple matter to continue to apply common sanitary and phytosanitary measures or  mutual recognition of conformity assessment on the island of Ireland post Brexit.

 

Edited October 19, 2018 by My Thai Life

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Because remainers tend to be better informed, better educated, doing better and better looking.

With gorgeous brown eyes!

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

And still ignored 

I wouldn't argue with that but merely ask why?

 

Does it not give Brexiters pause that all the bright people are remainers?

 

No, of course not. 

[bristolboy]

31 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Yes I read this article too earlier today. No doubt that's why Barnier offered to extend the transition yesterday. A few points:

 

> To me this is pretty good evidence of the EU meddling in internal affairs.  It has a habit of doing that: Italy, Greece, Poland, Hungary, Ireland, Netherlands, on and on. Confirms to the Leavers that they were right, and no doubt makes new Leave recruits.

 

 

Didn't seem to bother you when Trump started talking about a free trade treaty with the UK. Or is it only meddling when the EU does it?

[My Thai Life]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

My well connected authority states it would be a small price to pay to stop the nonsense and concentrate on more important issues such as Poland and Hungary (Italy is just a tantrum)

I have an even better connected authority who says that's not true.

Italy, a tantrum? Sounds like your "well-connected authority" is a bit disconnected.

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

I have an even better connected authority who says that's not true.

Italy, a tantrum? Sounds like your "well-connected authority" is a bit disconnected.

Quite:

 

https://www.investing.com/news/economy-news/high-noon-in-brussels-italy-prepares-for-budget-showdown-1651480

[My Thai Life]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

Didn't seem to bother you when Trump started talking about a free trade treaty with the UK. Or is it only meddling when the EU does it?

The US government representative was talking to a UK government representative.

 

Barnier himself said a few weeks ago he would only talk to the UK government. Corbyn isn't, and won't be.

[My Thai Life]

8 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Does it not give Brexiters pause that all the bright people are remainers?

You've just disproven your theory in that one-liner.

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

You've just disproven your theory in that one-liner.

One liner? My, you must have a huge screen! 

 

But my point is true, and you know it ????

Edited October 19, 2018 by Grouse