UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[SheungWan]

47 minutes ago, grumpy 4680 said:

     Its not a question of having a deal, UK voters waited a long time for a brexit vote, and when they got it they voted OUT, so out means out.

Now after just a short time, they would reverse that if given half a chance ie a second referendum. And all the grumpies know it, never mind the bluster.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

But fear not olly, time is a great healer, you will soon get over it and after a while you will have forgot all about us. You will wonder what all the fuss was about, whilst we will wonder what all the derisive posts were about.

Mr Brexit meets Mr Alzheimer.

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Mr Brexit meets Mr Alzheimer.

 

6 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Mr Brexit meets Mr Alzheimer.

That's it SW, keep it short, I believe it gives you less chance of getting deep vein thrombosis.

Edited November 24, 2018 by vogie

[melvinmelvin]

5 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Mr Brexit meets Mr Alzheimer.

 

which means? forget the whole deal - just Brexit?

 

[SheungWan]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

That's it SW, keep it short, I believe it gives you less chance of getting deep vein thrombosis.

One of the better ways to lessen the risk of deep vein thrombosis is to fly business class for long haul. Trickier with the Hard Brexiteers trashing Sterling though.

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

One of the better ways to lessen the risk of deep vein thrombosis is to fly business class for long haul. Trickier with the Hard Brexiteers trashing Sterling though.

I surprised they let you fly, do you still have to carry a doctors certificate stating that you are still off the Ya Dong.????????????

Edited November 24, 2018 by vogie

[rixalex]

Now after just a short time, they would reverse that if given half a chance ie a second referendum. And all the grumpies know it, never mind the bluster.

Speaking of Alzheimer's, it's amazing how quickly some forget how staggering inaccurate predictions have been for recent referendums and elections.

Oh but yes, this second referendum that hasn't even been agreed upon and has no date, can be predicted with complete certainty.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[SheungWan]

12 minutes ago, vogie said:

I surprised they let you fly, do you still have to carry a doctors certificate stating that you are still off the Ya Dong.????????????

American Express is all it takes.

[vogie]

Just now, SheungWan said:

American Express is all it takes.

I thought you read the Daily Express.

[SheungWan]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

I thought you read the Daily Express.

Rarely. Buy the Weekend FT (160 baht) at Asia Books CF when I am in town. Occasionally the INYT (135 baht). They are the only original hard copy newspapers I can get now in Thailand other than the photocopy versions. Economist (300 baht) I might buy when I have exhausted my back copy pile.

Edited November 24, 2018 by SheungWan

[sandyf]

21 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

His point was that the people in question were UK residents, not some transient riff-raff from the EU.

 

I think he was just having a go at Sheffield taxi drivers.

I think you may have that the wrong way round.

The original post tried to make out taxi sharing was a migrant problem. I merely pointed out that UK residents were guilty of what was a widespread problem before migrants became a problem, the accident I referred to was in 1995.

Not having a go at Sheffield taxi drivers, just happened to be where I was personally involved, the vehicle that hit me was from Rotherham.

 

It was a bit the same with the abuse of young girls, UK residents been at it for long enough but following the referendum it became a weapon against migrants. I was working in Burnley at the time of the riots, by UK residents.

There is no dispute that immigration policy has a lot to answer for, but the referendum put the focus in the wrong direction. A great deal more social damage came from the non EU countries but to some the EU can only be seen as the root of all evil.

 

[sandyf]

7 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

after some further reading, it appears that

 

the Spanish PM chap actually can block the Brexit deal

 

I saw the BBC correspondent in Brussels try to answer the same question yesterday.

He said that he had put the question to several of the EU diplomats and the answer was that Spain could not legally stop the vote on its own. He went on to say that the reality was they probably would, the consensus was that in the interests of solidarity the EU would more than likely support Spain and vote against the deal.

 

Time will tell, it usually does.

[sandyf]

The devil is in the detail, no wonder the car manufacturers have been quiet.

 

Elsewhere in the plan, the EU and UK pledge to "build and improve on the single customs territory provided for in the Withdrawal Agreement which obviates the need for checks on rules of origin" – a suggestion that a customs union with the UK could become permanent, which has angered Tory MPs.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-theresa-may-deal-trade-eu-frictionless-customs-union-borders-a8646376.html

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, grumpy 4680 said:

     Its not a question of having a deal, UK voters waited a long time for a brexit vote, and when they got it they voted OUT, so out means out.

     Its the dam'b politicians (who think the EU is just for them) they took us from a common market to what it is today, hence the reason to get out, 

     All of May's stalling to get a deal, is not going to be any use to us if still tied to EU strings. We were doing OK. before going in, so no reason for not being OK again when out, 

     Its only the corrupt EU. politicians (who only want our money) that are using scare tactics and trying to make life a difficult as possible for us because they won't accept that the EU is doomed to failure, in its current state anyway.

It is naive, ill informed comments like this which demonstrate why typical Brexiters should just be ignored

[melvinmelvin]

12 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I saw the BBC correspondent in Brussels try to answer the same question yesterday.

He said that he had put the question to several of the EU diplomats and the answer was that Spain could not legally stop the vote on its own. He went on to say that the reality was they probably would, the consensus was that in the interests of solidarity the EU would more than likely support Spain and vote against the deal.

 

Time will tell, it usually does.

 

my understanding is, yes - following rules and regulations Spain cannot block

 

however, there is this internally agreed MO in the pm/heads of states group  (agreed last spring me thinks)

which offers Spain the possibility of blocking

 

as you say time will show

 

EU shooting down the deal would be just another nice move in the omni shambles

 

[tebee]

[tebee]

 

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It is naive, ill informed comments like this which demonstrate why typical Brexiters should just be ignored

I class myself as a "typical brexiteer" and I would be truly honoured if you ignored me. 

[tebee]

The Government brexit strategy  to exploit differences between national governments in the EU failed dismally - tember the Germans will still want to sell us their cars?

 

Brussels sees its Brexit mission accomplished

How the EU maintained its unity despite British attempts to divide the bloc
   
   https://www.ft.com/content/97695384-ef1b-11e8-89c8-d36339d835c0

 

Karel De Gucht, the EU’s former trade commissioner, said British diplomacy — once seen in Brussels as having near supernatural ability to divide and paralyse the EU — was unable to better exploit national differences because of its own disarray. 

 

“London didn’t have a clear line, a clear demand,” he said. “When you have to spend your time negotiating among yourselves, it doesn’t help.”

 

Britain also missed chances to influence EU positions when they were most vulnerable. This included when Brussels set out its principles for divorce in autumn 2016, and in the early part of this year, when the bloc took a stance on the backstop for Northern Ireland and the shape of future relations. 
 

[tebee]

 Britain humiliated - by Britain. 

 

The country is now in a very bad place psychologically, because it has made a fool of itself,  and those responsible for this national humiliation have to blame foreigners and traitors and then retreat into a nativist fantasy land of hope and glory.

 

Sensible politicians like Hammond - interviewed today by the egregious Humphreys' who harked back as usual to project fear as if that made leaving a good idea - have to play along with this nonsense for the time being. 

 

It is kind of amazing that British politicians, who had never made any effort to make friends in the EU, thought they could launch a last minute charm offensive to divide it. Sending monoglot ministers round the member states just emphasized this naivety.

We really have made fools of ourselves. 

 

But read the Telegraph today and you'd think we were still a great 'nation'. 
 

[nontabury]

4 hours ago, oilinki said:

We as the people like myself, who thinks Europe is our home country.

 

There is indeed clear unity of people who make the EU and therefore Europe. England decided that it's too fancy to be part of our EU club and voted to exit. That's fine. Your decision to leave others behind has been noted by everybody. You can dislike our union as much as you like, as you are no longer real part of it anyway. 

 

 

You’ll be telling us next,that all the people of Europe are happy in this monstrosity.

You remind me of that very old proverb.

There are none so blind who will not see.

 

[tebee]

1 minute ago, nontabury said:

You’ll be telling us next,that all the people of Europe are happy in this monstrosity.

You remind me of that very old proverb.

There are none so blind who will not see.

 

 

 

    

The biggest victory of the Brexit project is the fact that public opinion in the 27 has shifted towards greater support for the European integration project. The UK’s antics have taught people the cost of non-EU and brought home to many the benefits of staying.

 

Who would have thought 700,000 people would ever have marched across London to remain in the “hated” EU?
 

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

Mr Brexit meets Mr Alzheimer.

Well done,five word answer. Your exceeding yourself.

[melvinmelvin]

9 minutes ago, tebee said:

 Britain humiliated - by Britain. 

 

The country is now in a very bad place psychologically, because it has made a fool of itself,  and those responsible for this national humiliation have to blame foreigners and traitors and then retreat into a nativist fantasy land of hope and glory.

 

Sensible politicians like Hammond - interviewed today by the egregious Humphreys' who harked back as usual to project fear as if that made leaving a good idea - have to play along with this nonsense for the time being. 

 

It is kind of amazing that British politicians, who had never made any effort to make friends in the EU, thought they could launch a last minute charm offensive to divide it. Sending monoglot ministers round the member states just emphasized this naivety.

We really have made fools of ourselves. 

 

But read the Telegraph today and you'd think we were still a great 'nation'. 
 

UK still great?

 

Doesn't march barstool talk - quit EU and let Britain be great again

 

(does that imply NI going to the dungeons?)

 

[nontabury]

11 minutes ago, tebee said:

 Britain humiliated - by Britain. 

 

The country is now in a very bad place psychologically, because it has made a fool of itself,  and those responsible for this national humiliation have to blame foreigners and traitors and then retreat into a nativist fantasy land of hope and glory.

 

Sensible politicians like Hammond - interviewed today by the egregious Humphreys' who harked back as usual to project fear as if that made leaving a good idea - have to play along with this nonsense for the time being. 

 

It is kind of amazing that British politicians, who had never made any effort to make friends in the EU, thought they could launch a last minute charm offensive to divide it. Sending monoglot ministers round the member states just emphasized this naivety.

We really have made fools of ourselves. 

 

But read the Telegraph today and you'd think we were still a great 'nation'. 
 

 

The truth is,Britain has indeed been humiliated. By our lying Politicians, able supported by other remainers.

[tebee]

1 minute ago, nontabury said:

 

The truth is,Britain has indeed been humiliated. By our lying Politicians, able supported by other remainers.

But this is the problem, much of what was promised by Brexiters before the referendum was a lie. Many of those people were in positions of power during the negotiations but were unable to deliver simply because reality did not match those lies.

 

You may have believed them,  this is not unnatural, their lies appealed to patriotism, saying that Britain was better.  In the modern world however, it is collaboration and pooling of resources  that is better.

 

They could not deliver what is impossible.  

[melvinmelvin]

23 minutes ago, tebee said:

But this is the problem, much of what was promised by Brexiters before the referendum was a lie. Many of those people were in positions of power during the negotiations but were unable to deliver simply because reality did not match those lies.

 

You may have believed them,  this is not unnatural, their lies appealed to patriotism, saying that Britain was better.  In the modern world however, it is collaboration and pooling of resources  that is better.

 

They could not deliver what is impossible.  

 

right

 

and now, for 2 years, GB of this and that has pooled her resources together to produce this once in a lifetime

 

fantastic deal  --  well done, UK may have a Belhaven, Grouse is buying

[tebee]

11 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

right

 

and now, for 2 years, GB of this and that has pooled her resources together to produce this once in a lifetime

 

fantastic deal  --  well done, UK may have a Belhaven, Grouse is buying

It's a cr*p deal,  but basically the best deal that could be had with ending FOM, which seems to have been May's priority.

 

It only wrecks the services sector as opposed to the whole economy, so it's better than no deal in that respect, but it's considerably worse than EU membership whille still costing the same.

 

It's not BEXINO or EEA, but those would have involved having FOM which seems to be her xenophobic red line, although they would have been better economically.

 

In short it's brexit for xenophobes, there are no other advantages too it     

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

It's a cr*p deal,  but basically the best deal that could be had with ending FOM, which seems to have been May's priority.

 

It only wrecks the services sector as opposed to the whole economy, so it's better than no deal in that respect, but it's considerably worse than EU membership whille still costing the same.

 

It's not BEXINO or EEA, but those would have involved having FOM which seems to be her xenophobic red line, although they would have been better economically.

 

In short it's brexit for xenophobes, there are no other advantages too it     

It's a deal that wants binning.

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

3 minutes ago, tebee said:

It's a cr*p deal,  but basically the best deal that could be had with ending FOM, which seems to have been May's priority.

 

It only wrecks the services sector as opposed to the whole economy, so it's better than no deal in that respect, but it's considerably worse than EU membership whille still costing the same.

 

It's not BEXINO or EEA, but those would have involved having FOM which seems to be her xenophobic red line, although they would have been better economically.

 

In short it's brexit for xenophobes, there are no other advantages too it     

 

this crap is no surprise really

 

maybe a crash out might actually serve uk better in the long term

 

what I found  strange is why on earth hasn't the parliament done anything

they are the real decision makers here

why don't they keep her in chains and instruct her re what to do / not to do

 

this mess is pretty much entirely the UK parliame