UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[mogandave]

I don't take much notice of what Trump tweets anymore.
 
He seems to believe that he is the supreme person in the world when in reality the US government is. 
 
He believes that if he says then things will happen, and sometimes they do but most of the time it is tempered by reality.
 
IMHO he is little but a blowhard (blow·hard/ˈblōˌhärd/noun
INFORMAL•NORTH AMERICAN
a person who blusters and boasts in an unpleasant way.
"a bunch of pompous blowhards trying to get on the news"
 
and the majority of the time he does NOT get his own way.

Takes a really great education to be blowhard...

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

A legend in his own mind...

Tell us more about the education, basket weaving was it?

 

Joint Honours applied physics a chemistry. Semiconductor physics if you like.

 

Now what,

[melvinmelvin]

23 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

I think President Macron may just have tipped the scales quite massively towards May's deal being voted down in Parliament, and enhanced the prospect of a No Deal exit - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/25/eu-leaders-back-theresa-mays-brexit-deal-in-brussels

wow, thanks for this - an interesting one

 

smth for CB to pick up and use in Brexit campaign

 

 

[Wanderlust]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Joint Honours applied physics a chemistry. Semiconductor physics if you like.

 

Now what,

 

[melvinmelvin]

40 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Just shows how perceptions can differ.  I would say Corbyn has been remarkably tame lately.  My prediction would be a hands down win for Corbyn.  Away from the script, May is in trouble, whereas Corbyn truly excels.

 

agree,

but have you spent some thinking and analyzing why Corbin would likely come out on top?

 

 

[mogandave]

Joint Honours applied physics a chemistry. Semiconductor physics if you like.
 
Now what,

Oh, ADVANCED basket-weaving...

[bomber]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

'Reports also emerged Ms May will challenge Jeremy Corbyn to a debate in the coming days over her Brexit deal which he has – on multiple occasions – said his party will vote down in the Commons.'

 

Not a very wise thing for May to do - she has made a number of tactical blunders imo.  Not only is JC far better at this sort of thing, nobody wants the deal.

a lot are threatening to block the deal yes but i would expect a lot to change come the day,it will be very close though,JC is better at nothing,the man and his party are a complete set of clown's,exactly why the numbskull UK population will vote him in,you cannot educate the brainless.As a remainer he should be happy with the deal as his words were we have to stay in the CU,we are still in it <deleted>,it must be control of our borders he is not happy with so would he give control back to brussells? he cannot give a answer to save his life,a total IRA scumbag,worse than BJ,to hear him say he can get a better deal is hilarious.

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

agree,

but have you spent some thinking and analyzing why Corbin would likely come out on top?

 

 

He would have a photo of his horse Hercules behind him? ????????????

[bomber]

7 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

agree,

but have you spent some thinking and analyzing why Corbin would likely come out on top?

 

 

May would murder him,he wanted us in the CU she has kept us in it,we have control of our borders which was the main issue with leave voters,we have that also,70% of leave voters should be happy,perhaps JC is sulking as he wont be able to get 10,000s of palastenians into the UK now.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

The games up! The new CON acolytes can't do the Telegraph crossword! 

 

1 across. Twenty nasal hundredweight in reverse. 

 

4 letters

How you arrive at the conclusion that I'm a conservative acolyte, given my very recent trashing of them, is - like some of Melvin's cryptic rhetoric - beyond me.

 

After consideration of the couple of cryptic / acronymic puzzlers, I soon realised their meaning. I know Johnson as BoJo (for short), however, and if you associate his name or personage with fellatio it says more about you than me, I feel ???? .

 

Retromug was a little harder to decipher, but I got there in the end. Never was a Times cryptic crossword fan!

Once again, you're flirting with pomposity and arrogance Grouse, but, I guess I should be used to this by now.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[rixalex]

Interesting rebuttal 
 
I don't see how my moves in the past have disadvantaged anyone
 
In many ways, wealth is the number of degrees of freedom you have; the choices you have, the "doors" that are available to you
 
Shutting off opportunity is unwise. For the 98% you mention, if they failed to pursue opportunities in Europe, they are unlikely to take the world by storm!
 
Anyway, good response!

Your moves haven't disadvantaged anyone. Not sure how you managed to extrapolate that from what I said.

The point I was making was that the great importance and value you place on being able to live and work anywhere in the EU, might not mean an awful lot - indeed might mean nothing at all - to all the people who spend their entire lives living in Britain.

You claim to be driven by an altruistic dream on behalf of everyone else in Britain so they can follow what you have done. Maybe they don't want to follow what you have done. Maybe they are happy living in Britain and want to make a success of their lives there.

You said the reciprocity enjoyed across EU benefits us all. How exactly does it benefit people living in Britain who have no intention of leaving?


Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Grouse]

10 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Your moves haven't disadvantaged anyone. Not sure how you managed to extrapolate that from what I said.

The point I was making was that the great importance and value you place on being able to live and work anywhere in the EU, might not mean an awful lot - indeed might mean nothing at all - to all the people who spend their entire lives living in Britain.

You claim to be driven by an altruistic dream on behalf of everyone else in Britain so they can follow what you have done. Maybe they don't want to follow what you have done. Maybe they are happy living in Britain and want to make a success of their lives there.

You said the reciprocity enjoyed across EU benefits us all. How exactly does it benefit people living in Britain who have no intention of leaving?


Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

They're <deleted>

[Grouse]

23 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

How you arrive at the conclusion that I'm a conservative acolyte, given my very recent trashing of them, is - like some of Melvin's cryptic rhetoric - beyond me.

 

After consideration of the couple of cryptic / acronymic puzzlers, I soon realised their meaning. I know Johnson as BoJo (for short), however, and if you associate his name or personage with fellatio it says more about you than me, I feel ???? .

 

Retromug was a little harder to decipher, but I got there in the end. Never was a Times cryptic crossword fan!

Once again, you're flirting with pomposity and arrogance Grouse, but, I guess I should be used to this by now.

 

 

Did you solve the cross word clue?

 

OK, if there are 2,300 pointy heads working at GCHQ, how many voted for Brexit and what is the freezing point of water minus 273K?

 

Seems we are a laughing stock in Europe with the "deal" we've been handed. Maybe the U.K. Is not as smart as we once were?

Edited November 26, 2018 by Grouse

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

Just shows how perceptions can differ.  I would say Corbyn has been remarkably tame lately.  My prediction would be a hands down win for Corbyn.  Away from the script, May is in trouble, whereas Corbyn truly excels.

His performance during PMQs falls somewhere between Woy Hattersssssley and Zippy from Wainbow . The tory front bench need umbrellas despite already being wet ????

[mommysboy]

58 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

agree,

but have you spent some thinking and analyzing why Corbin would likely come out on top?

 

 

Corbyn is a naturally talented and charismatic speaker, who revels in head to head debate.  He is happiest in front of a crowd.  May, on the other hand becomes haughty and robotic in my opinion.  It's probably my own bias, but with May it's rather like listening to the speaking clock, reassuring at first but very boring after a while.

 

Aside from this, there is the issue at hand of course.  Basically, people don't like the deal.  I don't know if there is a studio bias but remainers seem more vocal.

 

May gets rattled easily.

Edited November 26, 2018 by mommysboy

[mommysboy]

54 minutes ago, bomber said:

a lot are threatening to block the deal yes but i would expect a lot to change come the day,it will be very close though,JC is better at nothing,the man and his party are a complete set of clown's,exactly why the numbskull UK population will vote him in,you cannot educate the brainless.As a remainer he should be happy with the deal as his words were we have to stay in the CU,we are still in it <deleted>,it must be control of our borders he is not happy with so would he give control back to brussells? he cannot give a answer to save his life,a total IRA scumbag,worse than BJ,to hear him say he can get a better deal is hilarious.

It's a very biased critique: in order for argument to be cogent, it's not just about the words and sentences. IMO, you are just telling me you are fanatically opposed to Corbyn and Labour, which is fair enough- it's your opinion.

[Grouse]

50 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

How you arrive at the conclusion that I'm a conservative acolyte, given my very recent trashing of them, is - like some of Melvin's cryptic rhetoric - beyond me.

 

After consideration of the couple of cryptic / acronymic puzzlers, I soon realised their meaning. I know Johnson as BoJo (for short), however, and if you associate his name or personage with fellatio it says more about you than me, I feel ???? .

 

Retromug was a little harder to decipher, but I got there in the end. Never was a Times cryptic crossword fan!

Once again, you're flirting with pomposity and arrogance Grouse, but, I guess I should be used to this by now.

 

 

????‍????

[StreetCowboy]

16 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Corbyn is a naturally talented and charismatic speaker, who revels in head to head debate.  He is happiest in front of a crowd.  May, on the other hand becomes haughty and robotic in my opinion.  It's probably my own bias, but with May it's rather like listening to the speaking clock, reassuring at first but very boring after a while.

 

Aside from this, there is the issue at hand of course.  Basically, people don't like the deal.  I don't know if there is a studio bias but remainers seem more vocal.

 

May gets rattled easily.

I thought that at the last election, Corbyn stood head and shoulders above the other leaders, although his political views held him back. 

 

SC

[SheungWan]

29 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Corbyn is a naturally talented and charismatic speaker, who revels in head to head debate.  He is happiest in front of a crowd. 

Give me a break. Would that be the same obnoxiously evasive Corbyn who gets rattled every time any interviewer questions his poor judgment? And as for Brexit!....

Edited November 26, 2018 by SheungWan

[mommysboy]

2 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

I thought that at the last election, Corbyn stood head and shoulders above the other leaders, although his political views held him back. 

 

SC

Yes, absolutely.  Winning people over to socialism proper is a very hard sell, just as it's going to be very difficult for May to do so with the Brexit deal - for starters 50% of people in the audience- and at large- don't even want to leave.

 

I think we can say it's an 'away match' for May.

[SheungWan]

13 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

I thought that at the last election, Corbyn stood head and shoulders above the other leaders, although his political views held him back. 

Head and shoulders? What are you smoking?

Edited November 26, 2018 by SheungWan

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, mommysboy said:

Yes, absolutely.  Winning people over to socialism proper is a very hard sell, just as it's going to be very difficult for May to do so with the Brexit deal - for starters 50% of people in the audience- and at large- don't even want to leave.

I think we can say it's an 'away match' for May.

Socialism proper? And which version would that be? Venezuela or Eastern Europe pre-Wall time?

[SheungWan]

4 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Yes, absolutely.  Winning people over to socialism proper is a very hard sell, just as it's going to be very difficult for May to do so with the Brexit deal - for starters 50% of people in the audience- and at large- don't even want to leave.

I think we can say it's an 'away match' for May.

Please don't even bother trying to sell us the idea that Comrade Corbyn is anything other than pro-Brexit.

[Grouse]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-deal-introduce-id-cards-immigration-control-eu-andrew-adonis-free-movement-global-a8641866.html

 

As I said...

 

We don't need Brexit idiocy to control immigration.

[mommysboy]

11 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Socialism proper? And which version would that be? Venezuela or Eastern Europe pre-Wall time?

I mean not 'New Labour', but traditional social democracy based around such things as nationalised utilities, increased social welfare, equality, and labour rights.

 

No, not Venezuela, or any form of autocracy.

[mommysboy]

14 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Please don't even bother trying to sell us the idea that Comrade Corbyn is anything other than pro-Brexit.

Well, there's a difference between heart and head, isn't there? I am pro- Brexit until I consider the matter properly.  He says he voted Remain (I think), as did May, and I think many of us were 'reluctant remainers'.

[bomber]

8 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

I mean not 'New Labour', but traditional social democracy based around such things as nationalised utilities, increased social welfare, equality, and labour rights.

 

No, not Venezuela, or any form of autocracy.

i think you meant to say more money for the benefit scroungers and back to strikes and black outs,just what we need to go with brexit,huge debts and the start of a global recession.

[baboon]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

He would have a photo of his horse Hercules behind him? ????????????

I like Corbyn, as you know. However he and Labour are just as pathetic as the Tories, regarding Brexit. Great, they will vote down May's deal and replace it with...

Well they don't know. But not May's deal. But not not May's deal. Just Something Better.

Well WHAT, then?

 

Jesus Christ, the clock is still ticking and all Westminster does is bicker. Both parties are making me sick, quite frankly...

[tebee]

What a disaster the Brexit negotiations have been for the UK. Brown, Cameron and May all failed to understand how the EU works and underestimated its cohesiveness.

 

Far too often Conservative prime ministers have been cowed by the extreme right. Thus Cameron pulled the Conservatives out of the EPP which was hugely damaging for UK relations with Germany. Of course it did not appease his Brexit nuts.

 

With Labour taken over by Corbyn and modern day militants,labelled “momentum”, the Tories could have recalibrated and moved to the centre telling their Brexit nutters to leave. Instead May has continued to try and appease her Brexiters by the premature triggering of Article 50 and boxing herself in with foolish red lines.

 

Her plan has failed: the Brexit nuts cannot be appeased without a hard rupture with the EU. There is no majority in Parliament or among the public for that. It is also at last beginning to dawn on the electorate that such a rupture will hit everyone’s pocket book.

 

The EU was never going to give a better deal than staying in to a leaving member. Thus it has come to pass, May’s deal is far worse than remaining in the EU, although better than the lunatics who want crash out.

 

Parliament must work across party lines to ensure that Article 50 is suspended to give the time for either a referendum or general election. We need a People’s Vote to break this impasse.
 

[mommysboy]

33 minutes ago, bomber said:

i think you meant to say more money for the benefit scroungers and back to strikes and black outs,just what we need to go with brexit,huge debts and the start of a global recession.

That's just an extremely negative viewpoint. If I wanted to, I could paint just as bleak a picture about the current government if Brexit doesn't go well.