My Kid With Thai Wife, Can He Have 3 Passports?

[mobiryder]

im american, she's thai... say we go to australia to have the kid, would he then be entitled to usa/thai/australian passports?

How does that work?

[the scouser]

In order to qualify for the nationality of a country, it's not necessarily as simple as just being born there. However, if your child were to qualify for Australian citizenship, then there's no reason why s/he can't hold 3 passports: e.g. a child born in Northern Ireland to a British father and a Thai mother can legitimately hold British, Irish and Thai passports.

Scouse.

[samran]

In Australia at least, the concept of gaining Aust citizenship by simply being born on Australian soil ended on the 20th of August 1986. From that date onwards, for your child to aquire Australian citizenship when born in Australia, one of the parents need to be either an Australian permanent resident or an Australian Citizen.

For your child to aquire Aust citizenship when born outside of Australia, one of the parents needs to be an Australian citizen (there are some qualifications to this second rule, but that is generally the gist of it).

As for having three nationalities, none of the countries mentioned have problems with holding multiple passports. It would only be an issue if one of the countries forbade holding more than one nationality (eg Singapore or Malaysia). For the record, our daughter holds three, Thai, Australian and NZ.

I don't think that there are too many countries which simply pass on citizenship due to being born in that jurstiction. The major exception is the US, where it is mandated in the constitution, so is unlikely to change anytime soon.

[Mahout Angrit]

a child born in Northern Ireland to a British father and a Thai mother can legitimately hold British, Irish and Thai passports.

Is that a fact Can you really get an Irish passport if your parents are not Irish and have never visited Ireland.

[MiG16]

and I thought Thailand doesnt allow dual citizenship?

[the scouser]

and I thought Thailand doesnt allow dual citizenship?

Not this old chestnut again. Thailand does allow dual nationality.

Our son's two passports.......

Scouse.

[GU22]

Is that a fact Can you really get an Irish passport if your parents are not Irish and have never visited Ireland.

Under the constitution of the Republic of Ireland the 6 counties of the UK province of Northern Ireland are considered to be part of the Republic.

Therefore, under Irish law anyone who is born in NI is an Irish citizen and so can get an Irish passport.

They are also British so can also get a British passport.

If one of their parents were, for example, Thai then they would also be Thai and could get a Thai passport.

This can be very useful for anyone born in NI and living in the UK who has a non EU partner, as instead of using their British citizenship and paying through the nose for a sv etc., they can use their Irish citizenship and go down the EEA family permit route, which is free!

[the scouser]

a child born in Northern Ireland to a British father and a Thai mother can legitimately hold British, Irish and Thai passports.

Is that a fact Can you really get an Irish passport if your parents are not Irish and have never visited Ireland.

To be sure, to be sure.

Scouse.

[samran]

I'm pretty sure Ireland gave up that claim as part of the peace process. Not sure though what this means on the access to Irish citizenship in the north.

I'm also pretty sure that they amended their nationality laws maybe a year or two ago, so that to gain Irish citizenship when born in Ireland, you needed to have a parent who was an Irish national, had Indefine Leave (PR) in Ireland, or who's parent was a british national.

Where is vinny when you need him

[Mahout Angrit]

a child born in Northern Ireland to a British father and a Thai mother can legitimately hold British, Irish and Thai passports.

Is that a fact Can you really get an Irish passport if your parents are not Irish and have never visited Ireland.

To be sure, to be sure.

Our son's two passports.......

Scouse.

Wot no Irish passport, not born in Liverpool then

[the scouser]

You're right that the Irish did amend their nationality laws a few years ago, but it wasn't as a consequence of the Anglo-Irish agreement, but, rather, the actions of a particular Chinese lady.

The lady in question arrived in the UK illegally and knowing that she was already pregnant. She was aware that if she gave birth in the UK, her child would not be British. However, she was also aware that should her child be born in Northern Ireland, despite it being part of the UK and despite her unlawful status, s/he would be entitled to an Irish passport. She duly gave birth and the child was awarded its Irish passport, whereupon the woman asserted her child's right as an EEA national to live in the UK. She further asserted her claim to be a dependant of her own child, and therefore benefit from the same rights to live in the UK. After a myriad of court cases, she won.

Therefore, what the new Irish nationality laws have done is to remove the ability of those unlawfully in the UK, but born in N. Ireland, to claim Irish citizenship. Ultimately, a child of a Thai/British couple born in N. Ireland would be entitled to hold 3 passports.

Scouse.

[the scouser]

a child born in Northern Ireland to a British father and a Thai mother can legitimately hold British, Irish and Thai passports.

Is that a fact Can you really get an Irish passport if your parents are not Irish and have never visited Ireland.

To be sure, to be sure.

Our son's two passports.......

Scouse.

Wot no Irish passport, not born in Liverpool then

Born in Toxteth, no less. 50% Thai, 37.5% Welsh, 12.5% English.

Scouse.

[mrbojangles]

This can be very useful for anyone born in NI and living in the UK who has a non EU partner, as instead of using their British citizenship and paying through the nose for a sv etc., they can use their Irish citizenship and go down the EEA family permit route, which is free!

My Mrs hopefully starts college next month. If she fails the Citizenship test or doesn't attain it befor the end of August (we go for ILR sept 23rd) that is the route i'm taking.

Although i wasn't born in Ireland, my mother was and her mother etc. So i am an Irish Citizen already, just have to post off my passport application and Tony Blair can stuff his test and extortionate fees up his jacksy.

To be sure, to be sure

[Mossfinn]

You're right that the Irish did amend their nationality laws a few years ago, but it wasn't as a consequence of the Anglo-Irish agreement, but, rather, the actions of a particular Chinese lady.

I beg to differ on this Scouse, it is my recollection that is was ultimately down to the 'so called peace process', and the Irish gov'ts surrender of Articles 2 and 3 of their written constitution claiming the whole of the Island of Ireland.

But my knowledge of Irish Politics is a little shaky in recent years and my recollection of the constitution and ultimately of the long road to peace! possibly in error.

But as ever I will check.

Good Luck

Moss

Edited February 6, 2007 by Mossfinn

[Mossfinn]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_2_an...tion_of_Ireland

No mention of any Chinese old dear,

Good Luck

Moss

[the scouser]

If they've given up their claim to the 6 counties, why do the new nationality laws still make reference to "the island of Ireland"? Likewise, if that's the case, why do the new nationality laws still explicity allow those lawfully born in N. Ireland to claim Irish citizenship?

Scouse.

[Bizz]

http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=267

http://www.irishrefugeecouncil.ie/advice/citizenship.html

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&cr=c...ORT&spell=1

[Mossfinn]

If they've given up their claim to the 6 counties, why do the new nationality laws still make reference to "the island of Ireland"? Likewise, if that's the case, why do the new nationality laws still explicity allow those lawfully born in N. Ireland to claim Irish citizenship?

Scouse.

I am not entirely sure Scouse, but I feel it is something to do with the fact, that although they have now given up 2 & 3, historically it cannot be taken away.

So anybody who had it before it was surrendered can still legitamately still claim entitlement.

I believe that to be the case.

Good Luck

Moss

[the scouser]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_2_an...tion_of_Ireland

No mention of any Chinese old dear,

Good Luck

Moss

But, Moss, you didn't look in the Wikipedia entry for Irish nationality did you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_nationality_law

Particularly this bit:-

In March 2004 the government introduced the Bill of the Twenty-seventh Amendment of the Constitution of Ireland to remedy what the Minister for Justice Michael McDowell described as an "abuse of citizenship" whereby citizenship was "conferred on persons with no tangible link to the nation or the State whether of parentage, upbringing or of long-term residence in the State"[9]. The amendment did not propose to change the wording of Articles 2 and 3 as introduced by the Nineteenth Amendment, but instead to insert a clause clawing back the power to determine the future acquisition and loss of Irish citizenship by statute, as previously exercised by the Oireachtas (Irish parliament) before the Nineteenth amendment. The government also cited concerns about the Chen case, then before the European Court of Justice. In that case a Chinese mother who had been living in Wales had gone to give birth in Northern Ireland on legal advice. Mrs Chen then pursued a case against the British Home Secretary to prevent her deportation from the United Kingdom on the basis of her child's right as a citizen of the European Union (derived from the child's Irish citizenship) to reside in a member state of the Union. (Ultimately Mrs. Chen won her case but this was not clear until after the result of the referendum.) Both the proposed amendment and the timing of the referendum was contentious but the result for decisively in favour of the proposal; 79% of those voting, voting yes, on a turnout of 59%

Scouse.

[Mossfinn]

To be sure, to be sure

This reminds of the Christian Brother who taught me who always wore two condoms...............

It will take more than drinking Guinness on the 17th to being able to carry an Irish passport Mr Jangles

seriously though, the Wife will find the Citizen Test a walk in the park.

Good Luck

Moss

Edited February 6, 2007 by Mossfinn

[Mossfinn]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_2_an...tion_of_Ireland

No mention of any Chinese old dear,

Good Luck

Moss

But, Moss, you didn't look in the Wikipedia entry for Irish nationality did you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_nationality_law

Particularly this bit:-

In March 2004 the government introduced the Bill of the Twenty-seventh Amendment of the Constitution of Ireland to remedy what the Minister for Justice Michael McDowell described as an "abuse of citizenship" whereby citizenship was "conferred on persons with no tangible link to the nation or the State whether of parentage, upbringing or of long-term residence in the State"[9]. The amendment did not propose to change the wording of Articles 2 and 3 as introduced by the Nineteenth Amendment, but instead to insert a clause clawing back the power to determine the future acquisition and loss of Irish citizenship by statute, as previously exercised by the Oireachtas (Irish parliament) before the Nineteenth amendment. The government also cited concerns about the Chen case, then before the European Court of Justice. In that case a Chinese mother who had been living in Wales had gone to give birth in Northern Ireland on legal advice. Mrs Chen then pursued a case against the British Home Secretary to prevent her deportation from the United Kingdom on the basis of her child's right as a citizen of the European Union (derived from the child's Irish citizenship) to reside in a member state of the Union. (Ultimately Mrs. Chen won her case but this was not clear until after the result of the referendum.) Both the proposed amendment and the timing of the referendum was contentious but the result for decisively in favour of the proposal; 79% of those voting, voting yes, on a turnout of 59%

Scouse.

Hi Scouse, I was about to refer you to the latter part of my link, which goes on to mention Modern controversies, which alludes to the above stated case and others.

However, I had great faith in you disproving my post, but I have a further however, however, it was the, " Nineteenth Amendment which took full effect in 1999. As amended they grant the right to be "part of the Irish Nation" to all of those born on the island of Ireland", your 27 amendment was not to disavow Article 19 but to avert the abuse of citizenship.

It would appear that you are right in the Nationality law as you stated in your post, I am referring to the surrender of part of the constitution that relates to right to Nationality of those born in the Six Counties after the surrender of Articles 2 & 3.

As a direct reference to the OP I believe you have answered it more correctly.

Bug*er!!

Good Luck

Moss

Anyway can you answer my question in the Forum Support section, please.

Thanks

[oxymoron]

and I thought Thailand doesnt allow dual citizenship?

Not this old chestnut again. Thailand does allow dual nationality.

Our son's two passports.......

Scouse.

Scouse,

I think you may be drawing a long bow by stating Thailand allows "Dual Nationality". They do allow two passports,which are really only travel documents, because of the rights of a child born in Thailand ( maybe even abroad) of at least one Thai National parent. But if you go deeper then the xenophobia sets in. For example you can not legally own land if you "hold citizenship" of another country.

My wife and stepsons (both 100% Thai) found this out recently in regard to changing family land into their names, for them to be 110% legal they had to give up their Oz citizenship.

A small point but maybe of significance in these turbulent times.

[samran]

Scouse,

I think you may be drawing a long bow by stating Thailand allows "Dual Nationality". They do allow two passports,which are really only travel documents, because of the rights of a child born in Thailand ( maybe even abroad) of at least one Thai National parent. But if you go deeper then the xenophobia sets in. For example you can not legally own land if you "hold citizenship" of another country.

My wife and stepsons (both 100% Thai) found this out recently in regard to changing family land into their names, for them to be 110% legal they had to give up their Oz citizenship.

A small point but maybe of significance in these turbulent times.

Oxy,

not doubting your experience my any means, but a couple of points.

Firstly, the nationality issue, to get a Thai travel document, you need Thai nationality. To my mind, you can't have one without the other. It starts on the birth certificate which states you have Thai nationality.

Secondly, I'd like you to explain a bit more about what happened. I know that if you are a Thai married to the foriegner, the foreigner has to sign away all claims to the land, but what you have described is new to me to say the least. There are a couple of prominent example in central bangkok to say the least which would suggest (maybe?) that the official you spoke to was trying it on.

[mrbojangles]

To be sure, to be sure

seriously though, the Wife will find the Citizen Test a walk in the park.

Well, it looks like i am forced to go down the Irish route after all. We went to the college yesterday for her assessment, after waiting over a month for an appointment. The classes are full of (teachers words not mine) "assylum seekers and Polish" so the mrs can't get into a class until September and that is when we have to have already applied for ILR. So here i am, after paying taxes for all those years, stuffed and having to bend the rules re: my citizenship, cos the people who have never paid into the system take up all the places

[the scouser]

Your wife doesn't necessarily need to take classes if you're otherwise confident that she can pass the Life in the UK test at a cost of £34.00.

Scouse.

[bapak]

a child born in Northern Ireland to a British father and a Thai mother can legitimately hold British, Irish and Thai passports.

Is that a fact Can you really get an Irish passport if your parents are not Irish and have never visited Ireland.

The Republic of Ireland deems any person born in Ireland (Northern Ireland or the Republic) to be Irish.. and thus entitled to an Irish passport.. In fact it goes further then that.. I think I am right if one of your parents or grandparents was born in the Northern Ireland or the Republicm then you are entitled to Irish citizenship.

Bapak

[Mossfinn]

a child born in Northern Ireland to a British father and a Thai mother can legitimately hold British, Irish and Thai passports.

Is that a fact Can you really get an Irish passport if your parents are not Irish and have never visited Ireland.

The Republic of Ireland deems any person born in Ireland (Northern Ireland or the Republic) to be Irish.. and thus entitled to an Irish passport.. In fact it goes further then that.. I think I am right if one of your parents or grandparents was born in the Northern Ireland or the Republicm then you are entitled to Irish citizenship.

Bapak

In relation to the GRANDPARENT BORN IN IRELAND from whom citizenship is claimed:

Full civil birth certificate if born after 1864, otherwise a baptismal certificate; together with proof that no civil registration exists;

Civil marriage certificate (if applicable);

Copy of current passport or identity document, if alive, or death certificate;

Where the person to be registered is under 18 years, the declarent(parent) must sign the declaration on the application form and provide two of his/her own photographs.

Copied from Bizz's link above, thanks Bizz.

Good Luck

Moss

[Mossfinn]

Well, it looks like i am forced to go down the Irish route after all. We went to the college yesterday for her assessment, after waiting over a month for an appointment. The classes are full of (teachers words not mine) "assylum seekers and Polish" so the mrs can't get into a class until September and that is when we have to have already applied for ILR. So here i am, after paying taxes for all those years, stuffed and having to bend the rules re: my citizenship, cos the people who have never paid into the system take up all the places

Hi Mr Boj,

Sorry to hear of the trouble finding a place in college.

It is not absolutely necessary to have level three as you can still pass the Citizenship test without having gone to English classes.

I know I have said it before, but wouldn't it be more prudent to have a shout at the Test for a nominal amount of money and having a pretty good chance of passing instead of going through what could be a longer route and definately more costly.

Then you would have the Citizenship that is your first choice instead of a flag of convenience, that is of course if it is your first choice, if not then disregard this statement.

I am fairly convinced that if you buy the book and do some hard study of the three or five chapters or whatever it is now, test her on a regular basis, I am sure you will be fine, because it is multiple choice test.

Do not in my opinion be side-tracked by the potless questions that are shown on the internet, if you learn them from the book, then you can forget them after the test.

My first passport was a flag of convenience, because I was unable to track down where my parents birth certificates were located or where they were married in Ireland, it is a passport I do not use now.

Sorry if I have repeated myself from a previous thread, but again it is my opinion that you are unduly concerned.

Good Luck to you and your wife, I am sure which ever route you take it will be a success.

Moss

[the scouser]

My first passport was a flag of convenience, because I was unable to track down where my parents birth certificates were located or where they were married in Ireland, it is a passport I do not use now.

Moss, do not go down that road. We talked about this when we were in Pattaya. No Irish politics!!

Scouse.

[Mossfinn]

Moss, do not go down that road. We talked about this when we were in Pattaya. No Irish politics!!

Scouse.

Sorry!

It wasn't meant to be controversial, it is just my terminology and certainly not meant to be derogatory.

If anybody has taken offence, you have my apologies, it was really not meant to be taken as anything except face value.

Moss