Foreign tourists to Thailand should be made to have insurance: poll

[stanleycoin]

35 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

The thread is about tourists needing insurance and earlier somebody suggested that expats weren't included in that, I'm therefore trying to define "tourist" for the purpose of this discussion and to highlight the dilemma of trying to exclude expats from that ruling. The point I'm trying to make is that the difference is not clear-cut and I'm a good example of that. 

 

Looking exclusively at tax residency doesn't show the true picture because tax residency can be manipulated to suit circumstances and need. NHS and UK benefits rules might be a better guide where eligibility ceases unless a person spends at least 6 months in the country each year - having a home in either or both countries doesn't help answer the question because such things can be bought and sold easily without having any impact on where a person lives.

 

It's almost certain that there needs to be a series of tests in order to answer the question, just in the same way that UK tax residency rules were rewritten a few years ago a person needs to satisfy not one test but potentially several. So when it comes to Thailand trying to decide who will need to buy insurance before they visit I don't expect expats to be excluded from the ruling and treated any differently from tourists, simply, it's too complicated to distinguish between the two groups and TAT will not be able to come up with effective rules.

Ok

In that case, it's a thai thing.

 I Would say if it's ever done,  it will be done on your visa status year in year out to determine if your a tourist or Ex-pat.

A tourist visa is just that, a 30 day stamp is for tourists. and so on.

a 12 month extension of stay would be an Ex-pats, work visas and so on.

 

If they do this at any time. it will be for everyone, you can be sure about that  no body will escape a charge, and Christ knows what they will do with those who are uninsurable or don't have the funds.

And reckon it would be an imposable mess to manage,  let alone when it come to,  showing up at a hospital out in the sticks trying to get treatment !!!!!!!!!!!! waving some government insurance document at them 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by stanleycoin

[Sonhia]

Insurance policies connected in someway to a Thai company perhaps? Target foreigners yet again?

 

I'm surprised foreigners are not yet charged for breathing air!

 

After all, foreigners are normally charged from 100% to 400%, and possibly more in a majority of cases, excluding such places as Tesco, Big C and so on...

[simoh1490]

9 minutes ago, Sonhia said:

Insurance policies connected in someway to a Thai company perhaps? Target foreigners yet again?

 

I'm surprised foreigners are not yet charged for breathing air!

 

After all, foreigners are normally charged from 100% to 400%, and possibly more in a majority of cases, excluding such places as Tesco, Big C and so on...

Tesco is owned by Lotus in Thailand so that's a Thai company, Big C is also Thai., as is Makro.

[racket]

10 hours ago, hottrader77 said:

if thailand had it easy to get it i would get it but how do you know it covers everything you might pay it only to find out your not covered for this or that and still have a big bill to pay , also british insurance is not very good as it only covers you for about 60 or 90 days after that you have to come back england and renew it and set off again because if you stay longer than this amount of time it invalidates the insurance in the clauses

 

Do your research, there are plenty of travel and health insurances available in your country and outside. Traveling without health insurance is like driving a motorbike without helmet. You wont be lazy anymore if the law or requirement materializes which I hope they do for visa holders.

[simoh1490]

3 minutes ago, racket said:

 

Do your research, there are plenty of travel and health insurances available in your country and outside. Traveling without health insurance is like driving a motorbike without helmet. You wont be lazy anymore if the law or requirement materializes which I hope they do for visa holders.

Not for the average over 65 year old expats who have been resident in Thailand for the past ten years or more there isn't, at least nothing they would be able to sensibly afford, especially those with pre-existing conditions.

[lvr181]

3 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

I have homes in both the UK and in Thailand and I spend six months per months in each country, am I a tourist or an expat?

Yes. 

[rasg]

If you go to Thailand for months at a time you are an expat. If you go to Thailand and get your 30 days you are a tourist. If you then do a few border runs to stay longer you are living there for as long as possible, making Thailand your home. Therefore you are expat. If you take my second possibility and don't do border runs but stay longer, you are an overstayer.? Not sure what the relevance here is to the insurance question.

 

If you don't have travel insurance when traveling and end up in hospital, lose all your luggage and documents for (whatever reason) and can’t afford the medical fees you are a bit stupid. 

[Mac98]

For us older folks with pre-existing woes, how about insurance to just send us up the chimney? No way could most of us afford such premiums. 

[balo]

I think private hospitals in Thailand would be against this idea , they can charge the foreigners amazingly high fees .   

Easier to fool them than to fool the insurance company . 

 

[The Old Bull]

This idea stinks . It means once you get old you can't go anywhere because nobody will sell you insurance.

[Thian]

On 8/14/2018 at 1:56 AM, gk10002000 said:

All valid points but Thailand could centralize it and make people buy insurance from a Thai insurance website.  Maybe the site would have a few options, but the site would be accessible by the Thai officials.  Now many people of course have insurance on their own that already covers them, so they would not like having to pay for some Thai insurance.

I don't trust Thai insurance companies or banks....and so do many other Europeans with me.

 

I have a perfect insurance and bring the contract with me every time. It's in Dutch though so the Thai civil servants can't read it.

 

The whole issue is not tourists needing insurances but it's the Thai need to make their country safe for tourists.

 

 

[lvr181]

3 hours ago, The Old Bull said:

This idea stinks . It means once you get old you can't go anywhere because nobody will sell you insurance.

An idea "floated" by those (fools?) who do not have the IQ to consider all the circumstances.

[simoh1490]

14 hours ago, rasg said:

 Not sure what the relevance here is to the insurance question.

 

 

 

Post 210 explains why this is being discussed.

[David Walden]

14 hours ago, rasg said:

If you go to Thailand for months at a time you are an expat. If you go to Thailand and get your 30 days you are a tourist. If you then do a few border runs to stay longer you are living there for as long as possible, making Thailand your home. Therefore you are expat. If you take my second possibility and don't do border runs but stay longer, you are an overstayer.? Not sure what the relevance here is to the insurance question.

 

If you don't have travel insurance when traveling and end up in hospital, lose all your luggage and documents for (whatever reason) and can’t afford the medical fees you are a bit stupid. 

When I travel to Thailand from Aus I could just about replace all my clothes and personal items in my 7 kg of cabin luggage for under Aus $100.  Loosing my computer which is also in my 7kg backpack and travel documents, that can be inconvenient. My computer and clothes can be replaces for Aus $700 ( not so bad), I alway wear cargo trousers, left hand thigh pocket with extra velcro so my travel documents don't fall out, shirts with 2 pockets and a coat with lots of pockets, you can put 3/4 kg of thing in your pockets.   Loosing travel documents abroad can be a pain in the neck and cost you about Aus $500 and a lot of stuffing around.. My wife lost her passport in Bali a few years ago, she panics a bit when she gets off planes and can loose things hmmm.   It's just mostly just a pain for 4/5 days when you loose your passport.  The Bail tourist police introduced us to a taxi drive who new the ropes he was well worth the nice tip we gave him. (Mr Noman is his name we will never forget him)  In Bali waiting at the consulate to do the business about loosing the passport I have nothing but praise for the staff.  People arriving with no money, no luggage, no means of identifying themselves, people crying out of control.  Man, wife 5 kids, kids going amok (Consul asked us to help with kids while interviewing them) waiting with limited funds ready to shoot themselves, among these people in a gala celebration, a couple just sobered up wanting to get married...now?   And we thought things were bad for us?  I can't believe how good the Consul and staff sorted things out.  full marks.

    At 76 and still in quite good health, I make regular trips back to Aus from Thailand 2 months out of every 6 months.  I take advantage of the free medical services pensioner are entitled to in Aus, stock upon any medication I need, and return to Thailand.  Doctor always gives me a bit of stick and asks if I want to be tested for social problems.  (and "she" is a young woman, lovely 5555, wants to know all about for medical reasons))  It is handy having a rest from Thailand from time to time.  Makes me love them more and gives me a rest from all those Thai ladies who keep on chasing me, not just for my limited money but just for me?...phew! ( not all BS)

   I do have modest financial resources and can afford to get limited medical treatment in Thailand at my expense if needed.  But I would struggle with costly catastrophic injuries or sickness.  If I have a major medical problem or fall off my motor bike (no license) or get run over by a double decker bus, it would probably be better to just let me die where I fall?  But it  would be nice to know if you could be indemnified for transport problems back to Aus, that is have your expenses met by an insurer that pays the cost of repatriating you back to Australia so you could receive free hospital treatment which you are entitled to.  Perhaps Air fares for you and a carer to look after you on the way back.  Only rarely would you need Medivac ambulance services like Aus $50,000/100,000 for the transport.

 

Edited August 17, 2018 by David Walden

[ThaiBunny]

My credit card gives me free travel insurance if I pay for the tickets with the credit card. No insurance certificate is issued. Good luck proving I’m insured to Thai Immigration on arrival??


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[5633572526]

If they enforce the safety laws properly 47 Chinese don’t die and their coffers are full of cash. Problem solved 

[rasg]

7 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

My credit card gives me free travel insurance if I pay for the tickets with the credit card. No insurance certificate is issued. Good luck proving I’m insured to Thai Immigration on arrival??

 

Have you never thought to ask for one? I bet you can.

[ozmeldo]

On 8/13/2018 at 5:39 PM, jenny2017 said:

Have you forgotten the two accidents where foreigners had to start a Go Fund Me campaign? If people would spend a few bucks/ Euros to make sure that they are covered if something happens, wouldn't it be a win-win situation for all involved?

 

  Perhaps an insurance that's sold with the ticket? If many people have to buy such an insurance, it can't be too expensive.

My point is that any insurance that is offered thru the government foreigners will never be able to make a claim against.

 

I'm unaware of any nation on the planet (I'm sure there's one) that requires insurance verification for a holiday. How this chaotic, corrupt govt will flawlessly manage that and not have the hassles lose tourists I'd love to see.

 

Weren't the go fund mes for expatriates? So, they should have been insured.

 

Insurance like credit is a total scam in this country. You pay the same as you would in the west, but the policies are riddled with loopholes rendering them worthless.

[jenny2017]

13 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

My point is that any insurance that is offered thru the government foreigners will never be able to make a claim against.

 

I'm unaware of any nation on the planet (I'm sure there's one) that requires insurance verification for a holiday. How this chaotic, corrupt govt will flawlessly manage that and not have the hassles lose tourists I'd love to see.

 

Weren't the go fund mes for expatriates? So, they should have been insured.

 

Insurance like credit is a total scam in this country. You pay the same as you would in the west, but the policies are riddled with loopholes rendering them worthless.

The GoFundMe pages were done by relatives of tourists who had motorcycle accidents here. Of course, should the Thai government not be involved, we all know how well they manage their country, the education, and other things.

 

But if tourists have got an insurance policy from back home for an affordable price, nobody could tell them to pay for an additional one in LOS.

 

I always bought an additional travel insurance policy when I still visited Thailand as a tourist ( of course also for other countries) and I don’t know why so many people believe that they don’t need one when traveling to Thailand. 

 

I don’t know many expats who’ve got an insurance with full coverage. The ones who’ve got one, are guys who work as teachers, or those who have worked and could continue with their Thai social security.

[HHTel]

17 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

My point is that any insurance that is offered thru the government foreigners will never be able to make a claim against.

 

I'm unaware of any nation on the planet (I'm sure there's one) that requires insurance verification for a holiday. How this chaotic, corrupt govt will flawlessly manage that and not have the hassles lose tourists I'd love to see.

 

Weren't the go fund mes for expatriates? So, they should have been insured.

 

Insurance like credit is a total scam in this country. You pay the same as you would in the west, but the policies are riddled with loopholes rendering them worthless.

There are a few, Poland, Czech Republic and Cuba for example.  There are others that work on a 'tit for tat' basis.  i.e. if you have restrictions on our citizens then we have the same restrictions on yours!

[David Walden]

2 hours ago, rasg said:

Have you never thought to ask for one? I bet you can.

I  am studying Credit card travel insurance.  Could be OK looks like a few holes in it?  Lots of questions.

https://wallethub.com/edu/credit-card-travel-insurance/25820/

 

https://insurance.agaassistance.com.au/anzau/page/overseasTravelInsurance/eligibility

 

I have credit cards with both ANZ and Citibank.  I think you may have to be a good bush lawyer to sort this lot out.  Plenty of conditions that could go wrong if you read the promos.

Edited August 17, 2018 by David Walden

[ThaiBunny]

Have you never thought to ask for one? I bet you can.

The PDS states there is none; you show that the ticket was paid for by producing your credit card statement when making a claim

[ThaiBunny]

I  am studying Credit card travel insurance.  Could be OK looks like a few holes in it?  Lots of questions.
https://wallethub.com/edu/credit-card-travel-insurance/25820/
 
https://insurance.agaassistance.com.au/anzau/page/overseasTravelInsurance/eligibility
 
I have credit cards with both ANZ and Citibank.  I think you may have to be a good bush lawyer to sort this lot out.  Plenty of conditions that could go wrong if you read the promos.

The worst insurer I find is AMEX - no preexisting conditions whatsoever. The best from my perspective (I’m diabetic) is ANZ since they allow cover for diabetics automatically and you only have to charge a minimal amount of the travel ($250 if I recall correctly) to the card. Plenty of bush lawyers on TV however ;)

[wayned]

Just a way to create a new scam!  Mandatory health insurance on entry and health insurance machines installed at every entry point!

[David Walden]

2 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

The worst insurer I find is AMEX - no preexisting conditions whatsoever. The best from my perspective (I’m diabetic) is ANZ since they allow cover for diabetics automatically and you only have to charge a minimal amount of the travel ($250 if I recall correctly) to the card. Plenty of bush lawyers on TV however ?

Some of the requirement for credit card travel insurance are that you must have full Govt and private cover in a medical fund in Australia as well, the credit card cover may only provide the gap.  Often Medical cover insurance policies including travel, as is with most insurance will only cover you where the primary insurer does not or will pay where the claim cover is not available.  We are now going from a bush lawyer to a Philadelphia lawyer.

   In my young days working in an a large insurance company in Australia, all insurance policies in Australia began with the statement that " This policy is issued with utmost good faith"  This really means that the company and the insured set out to honour the intent of what the policy is offering.  It really means to be a bit like offering a handshake, and that you are agreeing that the intent of what is offered in the policy will happen.   Sadly along the way this statement is no longer offered on any contract for anything in Australia.  This condition was deleted sometime ago.  It has created a "bonanza" for lawyer in Australia, USA and a host of other countries.  Julia Gillard our previous Prime Minister tried to make it law that all contracts in Australia will be proceeded with this phrase.  This would have devastated the legal profession because it would mean almost all legal disputes would be settled by arbitrators.and not a lot of need for expensive lawyers...ouch!

 

[lvr181]

15 minutes ago, David Walden said:

Some of the requirement for credit card travel insurance are that you must have full Govt and private cover in a medical fund in Australia as well, the credit card cover may only provide the gap.  Often Medical cover insurance policies including travel, as is with most insurance will only cover you where the primary insurer does not or will pay where the claim cover is not available.  We are now going from a bush lawyer to a Philadelphia lawyer.

   In my young days working in an a large insurance company in Australia, all insurance policies in Australia began with the statement that " This policy is issued with utmost good faith"  This really means that the company and the insured set out to honour the intent of what the policy is offering.  It really means to be a bit like offering a handshake, and that you are agreeing that the intent of what is offered in the policy will happen.   Sadly along the way this statement is no longer offered on any contract for anything in Australia.  This condition was deleted sometime ago.  It has created a "bonanza" for lawyer in Australia, USA and a host of other countries.  Julia Gillard our previous Prime Minister tried to make it law that all contracts in Australia will be proceeded with this phrase.  This would have devastated the legal profession because it would mean almost all legal disputes would be settled by arbitrators.and not a lot of need for expensive lawyers...ouch!

 

Juliar would have great qualifications to fit in well as a part of a Thai government! 

[ThaiBunny]

All the credit card travel insurance policy documents I’ve read require that the insured person is “ordinarily resident in Australia” which is then defined as something like 75% of the time. So one long trip is OK but don’t make a habit of it your policy becomes ineffective


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[David Walden]

6 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

The worst insurer I find is AMEX - no preexisting conditions whatsoever. The best from my perspective (I’m diabetic) is ANZ since they allow cover for diabetics automatically and you only have to charge a minimal amount of the travel ($250 if I recall correctly) to the card. Plenty of bush lawyers on TV however ?

It's a long time since I've been in the travel and general insurance business.  Because of my age I'm almost uninsurable even though my doctor says I'm in good health and has promised me I'll live till I'm 90 or more ( I tell him I'll sue if he's wrong).  In times gone by I have had travel insurance from various companies and have always read the policy conditions completely, all 60/70 pages section A,B,C,D item 1 paragraph 23 etc,etc.  I am yet to see any travel insurance policy that will cover anybody for any current or pre-existing ailment.  Often they will say you will be covered for all sickness an accident matters. but! but! later in the fine print it will say payment for pre-existing  claims will be paid at the discretion of the insurer.  In other word if we don't want to pay we won't.  Hmmm.  Ambiguous at best.  I wouldn't want to be expecting a $50,000 medivac ambulance ride home if the insurer could say "maybe I do and maybe I don't, maybe I will and maybe I won't". as the song goes la, la, la.

[David Walden]

8 hours ago, lvr181 said:

Juliar would have great qualifications to fit in well as a part of a Thai government! 

Well maybe but you have missed my point completely.  Forget the politics.

Edited August 20, 2018 by David Walden

[Puccini]

On 8/15/2018 at 8:48 PM, simoh1490 said:

At what point does a person cease being a tourist and then become an expat, there is no legal definition in respect of time frame......and do you really think the Thai authorities will attempt to distinguish between the two factions!

 

I'd say that, from a legal point of view, unless and until otherwise defined by a law or regulation regarding the suggested compulsory insurance, a foreign tourist is a foreigner who enters Thailand for the declared purpose of tourism, eg visa-exempt or with a visa on arrival or a tourist visa, and is granted permission to stay for that reason. If subsequently such foreign tourist applies for and is granted permission to stay for a reason other than tourism, this person ceases to be a tourist.