Thai Visa denied after visa run to cambodia at the same day

[TonyBkk007]

4 hours ago, phuketrichard said:

this makes no  sense tome,  why didn't u just stay one night in a hotel at the border>
Note ONLY FLYING into sr do they enforce the stay 24 hour BS.. and it states below   SR airport!!

At poi pet if u enter Cambodia they will charge u 300 baht if u just want turn around and head back to thailand

other borders.....no problem

 

ITS NOT a law

 

PS  the also charge Khmers 100 baht to leave Cambodia.....:-)

as i mention ... the problem wasn't with the Cambodians ... its that thai officers that refuse from people to enter on the same day

[TonyBkk007]

4 hours ago, gaff said:

 

Sorry but seeing how you cannot read correctly a message on the forum that replies to the question that you are asking now, I guess that it's also difficult for you to know rules and ways that are clearly explained everywhere...

A but more concentration and attention could help you in the future ❤️

I just want to help ❤️

 

ohh wow... u so wise , your majesty  - please teach me your divine wisdom , because im so dumb to ask a question

[anon789561]

5 hours ago, RyanWalker said:

Pretty clear that he got deniet entry into Thailand based on the visa mate so please wake up

pretty clear he didn't get denied because of his visa, he was denied as they wouldn't allow him in same day(ie border hop) nothing to do with his visa but to do with poipet not liking border hoppers there and using the cambodians one day rule to deny entry

[Trollmann]

I had a bad experiense on re-entry on the same day at malaysian padang beasar border. I left thailand with train and walked from the train statin to have lunch at KFC in malaysia and did some shopping. Then i walked back to the thailand border (not the train border). I was offered motorcycle taxi for 100 baht for the less than 600 meters distance from malayian immigration to the thai border. I refused and said no thanks. The motorcycle taxi then run and waited for me at the thai border and told me to go with him into the thai immigration supervisor office. Inside i asked if this was because i did not take the motorcycle ride and the supervisor said yes. Maybe the supervisor did not understand my question, but for me it was like the motorcycle taxi was the boss and punishing me for refusing the ride. The supervisor said i can not enter on the same day as leaving. It there someone else here been refused at thai land border returning from malaysian border for attempting re-entry on the same day?

Edited August 16, 2018 by Trollmann

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Happy enough said:

pretty clear he didn't get denied because of his visa, he was denied as they wouldn't allow him in same day(ie border hop) nothing to do with his visa but to do with poipet not liking border hoppers there and using the cambodians one day rule to deny entry

Then how do you explain the reports of people that have got through Cambodian immigration, left again, only been stopped by Thai Immigration from re-entering?

 

There are two issues at this border.

1. Having to stay in Cambodia overnight -- a long standing rule that has been randomly enforced. 
2. The Aranyapathet immigrations more recent stand against border hoping to extend a stay.

[hawksway]

Every knows that Poipet is a dodgy place with scams at every turning.  Start with low expectations and you won't be disappointed. Plenty of good accommodation though  if you have to stay there and perhaps come back richer (or poorer).

[anon789561]

4 hours ago, elviajero said:

Then how do you explain the reports of people that have got through Cambodian immigration, left again, only been stopped by Thai Immigration from re-entering?

 

There are two issues at this border.

1. Having to stay in Cambodia overnight -- a long standing rule that has been randomly enforced. 
2. The Aranyapathet immigrations more recent stand against border hoping to extend a stay.

well you just did explain it and that's basically what the post you responded to says. more recent? poipets been like that for years now

[stevenl]

7 hours ago, TonyBkk007 said:

ohh wow... u so wise , your majesty  - please teach me your divine wisdom , because im so dumb to ask a question

Well, it would help if you read the answer to a question you posed, in stead of just asking for the information already given in the answer.

[stud858]

I would only go with border run agent in the mini bus together as a group.

I had a problem ages ago and realised its not safe by yourself.

 

 

[jenny2017]

On 8/16/2018 at 8:48 AM, khwaibah said:

Not at Chong Chom or Choam Sa Ngam Crossing . I use them both.

Be aware that some corrupt Cambodian Immigration officers at Chom Sa Ngam are trying to make some extra money by telling you that a stamp in your PP was missing, or similar.  Just don't pay the 200 or 400 baht they are asking for.

 

  

[JackThompson]

On 8/17/2018 at 1:24 AM, Trollmann said:

The supervisor said i can not enter on the same day as leaving. It there someone else here been refused at thai land border returning from malaysian border for attempting re-entry on the same day?

There have been other reports of this "overnight rule" at the Malaysian border - but those I recall were people attempting to enter Visa-Exempt. 

 

The "show 20K Baht" rule is also common there - even reported enforced sometimes on those with Non-O Multi-Entry visas.

 

But, if you are prepared with 20K Baht + and a possible overight stay, reports indicate they will always let you in, provided you have either a valid visa or have not reached 2x Visa-Exempts by land in the current calendar-year.

[Trollmann]

On 8/20/2018 at 4:23 PM, JackThompson said:

There have been other reports of this "overnight rule" at the Malaysian border - but those I recall were people attempting to enter Visa-Exempt. 

 

The "show 20K Baht" rule is also common there - even reported enforced sometimes on those with Non-O Multi-Entry visas.

 

But, if you are prepared with 20K Baht + and a possible overight stay, reports indicate they will always let you in, provided you have either a valid visa or have not reached 2x Visa-Exempts by land in the current calendar-year.

I was asked and i showed the 20k baht cash. The supervisor did not want to count the money. Yes i was arriving on visa exempt and i did not have any visa exempt at all this year, 2018. The supervisor also commented that i had entered thailand more than 6 times. Actually i entered thailand more than 20 times in the last 7 years, most of them with tourist visa and multi entry tourist visa.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Trollmann

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Trollmann said:

I was asked and i showed the 20k baht cash. The supervisor did not want to count the money. Yes i was arriving on visa exempt and i did not have any visa exempt at all this year, 2018. The supervisor also commented that i had entered thailand more than 6 times. Actually i entered thailand more than 20 times in the last 7 years, most of them with tourist visa and multi entry tourist visa.

Given they only cited 6, this may refer to the alert received on the IO's screen when a foreigner has more than 6 Visa-Exempt entries since 2015, when they started counting.  As far as we know, this count is never reset, in which case, the alert based on it becomes increasingly useless as a basis of flagging applicants to review, with each passing year.

 

If they wanted to do so, they could pull up your entire history - but this seems only to occur at some airports and the Poipet/Aranya crossing, absent unusual circumstances.  The other entry-points appear to verify the lack of a criminal issue, that you either have a valid visa or under 2x land-border visa-exempt entries this calendar-year, and possibly ask to see the money.  

[Trollmann]

9 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Given they only cited 6, this may refer to the alert received on the IO's screen when a foreigner has more than 6 Visa-Exempt entries since 2015, when they started counting.  As far as we know, this count is never reset, in which case, the alert based on it becomes increasingly useless as a basis of flagging applicants to review, with each passing year.

 

If they wanted to do so, they could pull up your entire history - but this seems only to occur at some airports and the Poipet/Aranya crossing, absent unusual circumstances.  The other entry-points appear to verify the lack of a criminal issue, that you either have a valid visa or under 2x land-border visa-exempt entries this calendar-year, and possibly ask to see the money.  

Here is my visa exempt history to thailand prior to the supervisor denial:

2011 3 visa exempt , 2 by air and 1 by land

2012 2 visa exempt by land

2013 0 visa exempt

2014 0 visa exempt

2015 1 visa exempt by air

2016 2 visa exempt, 1 by air 1 by land

2017 0 visa exempt

2018 0 visa exempt

So i think that the 3 visa exemption from 2015 until 2018 was not what the supervisor was refering to. I think maybe it is that from 2011 i had 5 ordinary tourist visas and 1 multi entry tourist visa. I think i recall that someone mentioned that he got a stamp in his passport that he had obtained  6 tourist visas when applying for visa at the embassy. 

 

 

 

[JackThompson]

17 hours ago, Trollmann said:

Here is my visa exempt history to thailand prior to the supervisor denial:

2011 3 visa exempt , 2 by air and 1 by land

2012 2 visa exempt by land

2013 0 visa exempt

2014 0 visa exempt

2015 1 visa exempt by air

2016 2 visa exempt, 1 by air 1 by land

2017 0 visa exempt

2018 0 visa exempt

So i think that the 3 visa exemption from 2015 until 2018 was not what the supervisor was refering to. I think maybe it is that from 2011 i had 5 ordinary tourist visas and 1 multi entry tourist visa. I think i recall that someone mentioned that he got a stamp in his passport that he had obtained  6 tourist visas when applying for visa at the embassy. 

 

 

 

When applying for a visa at an embassy/consulate, the count in one's passport may be used to determine eligibility.  This policy varies by consulate, all of which fall under the MFA, and is not directly related to "checkpoint denial" policy, which is a determination by Immigration - and 100% in their discretion, in the case of Visa-Exempt entries.

 

Based on your list of entries, the "6" must have come from a more comprehensive count of entries and/or a different flagging-system.

 

You said this led to denial by a supervisor?  What entry-point was this and when?  Others may need to add it to the "avoid" list for Visa-Exempt by land. 

 

Since the "2x by land per calendar-year" Visa-Exempt policy took effect, most land borders have been reported as only acting on that limit - not based on a search through the applicant's entry-history.

[BritTim]

39 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Based on your list of entries, the "6" must have come from a more comprehensive count of entries and/or a different flagging-system.

I think it more likely that this was just the official making things up. My sense is that this crossing (which we definitely want identified) is looking for bribes to facilitate a smooth border crossing.

[phetpeter]

Would it not help the situation if he had taken his Thai wife and child over with him perhaps a quick pinch of the babies bottom have it screaming and wife pretending to be upset get rid of the problem? or the wife staring angrily?

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

I think it more likely that this was just the official making things up. My sense is that this crossing (which we definitely want identified) is looking for bribes to facilitate a smooth border crossing.

Further up, he referred to ...

 

On 8/17/2018 at 1:24 AM, Trollmann said:

I had a bad experiense on re-entry on the same day at malaysian padang beasar border.

...

Inside i asked if this was because i did not take the motorcycle ride and the supervisor said yes.  Maybe the supervisor did not understand my question, but for me it was like the motorcycle taxi was the boss and punishing me for refusing the ride. The supervisor said i can not enter on the same day as leaving.

.. but I am not sure if this was the same incident.  The "cannot re-enter on the same day" is a known issue on the Malaysian border with Visa Exempt border-bounces.  It may, indeed, be part of a new extortion-scheme.  If so, it is possible they are using moto-taxi people as a form of "agent" to avoid directly taking bribes - similar to how some immigration-offices in-country operate. 

 

Given how many times IOs on this border were busted for not sharing the loot with the proper overlords and/or doing it in a ham-fisted / obvious manner, it would make sense for them to try a new scheme.  Why else would the moto-taxi guy be interacting at all with the immigration office?

[Trollmann]

On 8/24/2018 at 4:25 PM, JackThompson said:

When applying for a visa at an embassy/consulate, the count in one's passport may be used to determine eligibility.  This policy varies by consulate, all of which fall under the MFA, and is not directly related to "checkpoint denial" policy, which is a determination by Immigration - and 100% in their discretion, in the case of Visa-Exempt entries.

 

Based on your list of entries, the "6" must have come from a more comprehensive count of entries and/or a different flagging-system.

 

You said this led to denial by a supervisor?  What entry-point was this and when?  Others may need to add it to the "avoid" list for Visa-Exempt by land. 

 

Since the "2x by land per calendar-year" Visa-Exempt policy took effect, most land borders have been reported as only acting on that limit - not based on a search through the applicant's entry-history.

The denial was based on the same day exit and re-entry. The six times was just another "bad" thing that was making the supervisor unhappy. A little more about what was leading up to that i was taken to the supervisor office: The motorcycle guy strongly denied me when i said i want to go in the line for the ordinary passport control and he took my arm and said i can not go there, i must go with him to the supervisor office. He was speaking to the supervisor about his "capture" and when i asked the supervisor if this was because i did not take the motorcycle ride the supervisor answered yes. Maybe the motorcycle guys work as detectives for immigration and it is suspicious that farang prefer to walk insted of accepting the overpriced short motorcycle ride. If you dont have money for the ride, maybe dont have the 20 000? Maybe the motorcycle guys get a reward for the catches? I dont dare to think this is a new corruption scheme, and that the immigration get some profit from the motorcycle guy and that this was some form of punishment.

Edited August 25, 2018 by Trollmann

[BritTim]

14 minutes ago, Trollmann said:

The denial was based on the same day exit and re-entry. Can not come back same day as leaving.

That is a local rule at the crossing you used to return to Thailand. There is no Thai law that prevents you doing a border hop and immediately returning. Two crossings that are known to invent this rule on a frequent basis are Sadao in the South and Aranyaprathet crossing from Poipet in the East. Most Thai crossing points will not try to impose such a rule. Where a crossing does, there are probably fixers around who can have the rule waived for a fee.

[Trollmann]

27 minutes ago, BritTim said:

That is a local rule at the crossing you used to return to Thailand. There is no Thai law that prevents you doing a border hop and immediately returning. Two crossings that are known to invent this rule on a frequent basis are Sadao in the South and Aranyaprathet crossing from Poipet in the East. Most Thai crossing points will not try to impose such a rule. Where a crossing does, there are probably fixers around who can have the rule waived for a fee.

The friendliest border crossing i ever did was in Kanchanaburi. Immigration officers was very polite, smiling and had good time of friendly conversation. Out and back in within 15 minutes. 

[elviajero]

8 hours ago, BritTim said:

8 hours ago, Trollmann said:

The denial was based on the same day exit and re-entry. Can not come back same day as leaving.

That is a local rule at the crossing you used to return to Thailand. There is no Thai law that prevents you doing a border hop and immediately returning. Two crossings that are known to invent this rule on a frequent basis are Sadao in the South and Aranyaprathet crossing from Poipet in the East. Most Thai crossing points will not try to impose such a rule. Where a crossing does, there are probably fixers around who can have the rule waived for a fee.

Whether or not they "invented" the rule, the rule is legitimate. More pertinent is that there is no law that states you can exit and immediately re-enter at any border.

 

Different rules are applied at different crossings for various reasons.

[gaff]

On 8/25/2018 at 10:56 PM, Trollmann said:

The friendliest border crossing i ever did was in Kanchanaburi. Immigration officers was very polite, smiling and had good time of friendly conversation. Out and back in within 15 minutes. 

 

No scam around at Kanchanaburi ?

900 thb everything included ?

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by gaff

[Bill Miller]

On 8/17/2018 at 1:25 AM, elviajero said:

Then how do you explain the reports of people that have got through Cambodian immigration, left again, only been stopped by Thai Immigration from re-entering?

 

There are two issues at this border.

1. Having to stay in Cambodia overnight -- a long standing rule that has been randomly enforced. 
2. The Aranyapathet immigrations more recent stand against border hoping to extend a stay.

I won't get into a lot of speculation and palaver on this.
I will only say that we just got back from our overnight stay, enforced by Thai immigration, and from his statement I sort of think it may have summat to do with BJ's "no tip" crackdown.
Happily the senior IO officer let me call my GF, and in fact took the phone himself and explained it all to her, and let her meet me at the border zone. We decided to both bite the bullet and stay overnight, as if I had a choice.
Fortunately she had her passport this time. Last time she thought she could get a border pass for the day, but was told only for locals.
Bottom line is that there IS such a rule, and as explained by Ubanjoe it is not easy to find.
Several airlines do have a notice about it.
If you think I and others just made this up, then to Heck with ya! We are only trying to save you possible grief.
I previously made the trip on a one day "bounce" two or three times. This time, barely able to walk because of stroke, etc., I was refused. I stupidly kicked up a bit of a fuss, and the rejoinder, in excellent English vernacular, was "Well, then, maybe you should consider going back to your home country where you came from!"
This was followed by permission to call my Lady from within immigration, and he spent several minutes explaining to her what was happening. 
She kind of reluctantly joined me, as she does not like Cambodia, and we all survived.

 

[Tom9999]

Been in Poipet / Aranya... the last time many, many years ago.

I think it was 2005 or so.

No problem at this time and I did it together with my Thai Girlfriend of those days.

Not sure if it was relevant but I was on a Work Permit and can't really remember why I had do leave ... Company request.

As it was easy for me to drive to the Border myself I did not need a Border run Company....

 

Anyway, times change and I guess I would have just stayed for 1 Day in one of the Hotels there.

Traveling all the Way to SR and paying for a flight seems to me a bit excessive.

A nice Dinner and a stroll thru the Casinos seem to me the better use of my time and money.

At the very least I would have stayed in SR.

Pub Street is very nice for an evening out in SR.

https://www.google.ch/maps/place/Pub+Street+Siem+Reap/@13.3547861,103.8525142,685m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x3110178b87eece53:0xdba9f9bc6565d20f!8m2!3d13.3547861!4d103.8547083

 

 

[BritTim]

7 hours ago, Tom9999 said:

Been in Poipet / Aranya... the last time many, many years ago.

 I think it was 2005 or so.

In 2006, Poipet was the best place to do a border bounce, and there were absolutely no issues (except sometimes long queues) even if returning the same day.

 

Now, Poipet should definitely be avoided. Even after staying a few days in Cambodia, there is no guarantee that Thai immigration there will not target you.