U.S. says more sanctions await if Turkey does not free pastor

[webfact]

U.S. says more sanctions await if Turkey does not free pastor

By Steve Holland and Jeff Mason

 

U.S. Secretary of the Treasury Steven Mnuchin arrives for a news conference at the G20 Meeting of Finance Ministers in Buenos Aires, Argentina, July 22, 2018. REUTERS/Marcos BrindicciREUTERS/Files

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States warned Turkey on Thursday to expect more economic sanctions unless it hands over detained American pastor Andrew Brunson, as relations between the two countries took a further turn for the worse.

 

U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin assured President Donald Trump at a Cabinet meeting that sanctions were ready to be put in place if Brunson was not freed.

 

"We have more that we are planning to do if they don't release him quickly," Mnuchin said during the meeting.

 

The United States and Turkey have exchanged tit-for-tat tariffs in an escalating attempt by Trump to induce Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan into giving up Brunson, who denies charges that he was involved in a coup attempt against Erdogan two years ago.

 

"They have not proven to be a good friend," Trump said of Turkey during the Cabinet meeting. "They have a great Christian pastor there. He's an innocent man."

 

Trump's national security adviser, John Bolton, had issued a blunt warning to Turkish ambassador Serdar Kilic when he met him on Monday at the White House, an administration official said on Thursday.

 

When Kilic sought to tie conditions to Brunson's release, Bolton waved them aside and said there would be no negotiations.

 

"Release Brunson," Bolton told him, according to the official, who declined to be named.

 

Turkey has sought to persuade the United States to spare Turkey's state-owned Halkbank from a threatened fine for allegedly helping Iran evade U.S. sanctions. Ankara also wanted Washington to hand over Turkish cleric Fethullah Gulen, who lives in Pennsylvania and who Turkey suspects of plotting the coup against Erdogan. Gulen denies the allegations.

 

"They missed a big opportunity. This is very easy to resolve," the administration official said. "They made a big mistake trying to tie this to other things."

 

The dispute over Brunson and other frictions between Washington and Ankara have been one reason the Turkish lira has plunged 40 percent this year. Investors also fret over Erdogan's influence over monetary policy.

 

The lira lost strength after Mnuchin's remarks.

 

Trump, who has doubled steel and aluminum tariffs on Turkey, said the steel tariffs had kicked in and the aluminum tariffs would take effect soon.

 

(Reporting by Steve Holland and Jeff Mason, additional reporting by Jonathan Landay; Editing by Alistair Bell and Rosalba O'Brien)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-08-17

[Topdoc]

Didn't a group of senior CIA officers help in the coup attempt in Turkey in July 2016 ?

[pegman]

15 minutes ago, Topdoc said:

Didn't a group of senior CIA officers help in the coup attempt in Turkey in July 2016 ?

Knowing their track record in these things it is very likely.

[bristolboy]

15 minutes ago, Topdoc said:

Didn't a group of senior CIA officers help in the coup attempt in Turkey in July 2016 ?

Well, that's what the Turkish government claims. But no hard evidence has been offered. And considering Erdogan's track record in assigning blame, you'll have to do a lot better to show that this is the case.

[BuaBS]

Put more sanctions on Turkey regardless of freeing the pastor/spy.

[ChouDoufu]

i think we learned in a similar case in england, governments are not required to furnish evidence to the public before initiating sanctions.

 

governments have access to intelligence that is not available to the public, therefore their pronouncements should be considered as facts.  we can't expect them to give details that would reveal sources and methods.

 

if turkey claims the cia was involved in the coup, or that gulen was the ringleader, or the pastor is a cia plant serving gulen, then we should accept that as true.

 

as civilians, all we can do is look at the public record of the cia in regime change activities.

Edited August 17, 2018 by ChouDoufu

[bristolboy]

38 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

i think we learned in a similar case in england, governments are not required to furnish evidence to the public before initiating sanctions.

 

governments have access to intelligence that is not available to the public, therefore their pronouncements should be considered as facts.  we can't expect them to give details that would reveal sources and methods.

 

if turkey claims the cia was involved in the coup, or that gulen was the ringleader, or the pastor is a cia plant serving gulen, then we should accept that as true.

 

as civilians, all we can do is look at the public record of the cia in regime change activities.

Well, then, the USA has a government, it's government has access to facts not available to the public, therefore its denials that the CIA was involved should be accepted by  by civilians.

[sammieuk1]

The CIA knows Fullwell Erdog faked his own coup to get rid of his enemy's and elevate himself to a new super sultan with "special powers" whilst blaming the cleric Gluen who lives in the USA. Get on with the sanctions and squeeze the life out of this faker ??  

Edited August 17, 2018 by sammieuk1

[bristolboy]

53 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

The CIA knows Fullwell Erdog faked his own coup to get rid of his enemy's and elevate himself to a new super sultan with "special powers" whilst blaming the cleric Gluen who lives in the USA. Get on with the sanctions and squeeze the life out of this faker ??  

Did you get the security clearance that Brennan lost and did you also get unfettered access to CIA files?

[sammieuk1]

13 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Did you get the security clearance that Brennan lost and did you also get unfettered access to CIA files?

Yes?

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

Well, then, the USA has a government, it's government has access to facts not available to the public, therefore its denials that the CIA was involved should be accepted by  by civilians.

 

I never, ever accept what my government is telling me. Usually, I consider it to be false, if it is coming from the government. Any government. Governments are not there to assist the people, nor are they working for the best interests of their people. They represent their own interests. Why on earth would I trust any government, much less this administration?

Edited August 17, 2018 by spidermike007

[Topdoc]

[puck2]

2 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

The CIA knows Fullwell Erdog faked his own coup to get rid of his enemy's and elevate himself to a new super sultan with "special powers" whilst blaming the cleric Gluen who lives in the USA. Get on with the sanctions and squeeze the life out of this faker ??  

To use one of Trump's favorite words, both – TRUMP and ERDOGAN are „tremendous“ liars. Therefore, if you believe they say what their own „CIA“ tells them, is like listening to a soothsayer or agitator. You cannot believe either the LOTUS (Liar Of The …) nor the sick man near the Bosporus.

 

Out of my viewpoint it's high time to do the same against the blind trade-warrior Trump and all his minions, because he isn't able to play by international (diplomatic) rules. Put sanctions on them. And maybe against the country that doesn't stop such an incompetent idi$t.. He makes much, much more trouble to the world than an evangelical priest can do to Turkey. I don't defend Erdogan's criminal actions, but ask myself if Trump has only 1 milligram of common sense (I don't dare to ask for a capability for empathy).

 

Only one example of many. Why does he not support the lovely Canada against the Saudi King Salman for the release of jailed Saudi human rights activists? Why no „sanctions? Maybe special personal interests?

 

Trump, a shame of America.

[maximillian]

3 hours ago, BuaBS said:

Put more sanctions on Turkey regardless of freeing the pastor/spy.

 

US is sanctioning the whole world. Soon to come to this theatre.

Yeah, sanctions are cool.

Sanctions, wars, regime changes, that's the tools for fools.

Edited August 17, 2018 by maximillian

[The Theory]

Erdogan had already made the arrest and fire list ready. Thousands of people arrested or fired right after the coupe.

Ataturk was a great man hopefully Turkey is not going back to time before Ataturk. 

Edited August 17, 2018 by The Theory

[Gillyflower]

I understand (CNN) that the pastor has a VERY good friend who is a VERY good friend of Trumps.  Knowing how Trump is , it could very well be that he is wreaking all this upheaval just because of that.

[ChouDoufu]

4 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Well, then, the USA has a government, it's government has access to facts not available to the public, therefore its denials that the CIA was involved should be accepted by  by civilians.

some problems with this.

 

according to the current narrative, erdogan is a brutal dictator with a massive internal security and intelligence apparatus.  he would be in a position to know.

as a dictator ruling with an iron fist, he doesn't need to fake a coup.

 

cia has a history of using honorable professions.....clergy, doctors, journalists...as cover for their agents.  if the pastor is NOT a cia asset, erdogan gains nothing by holding him that he couldn't also gain by a public shaming and deportation.  he has nothing to gain and much to lose by pissing off the trump.

 

the other problem is precedent.  the us govt, cia, and other agencies have a long....well documented....history of interfering in the internal affairs of other nations, be it coups, supporting insurrections, arming and training moderate rebels, cyber attacks, regime changes, and of course assassinations.  a quick google search will show you this, along with a long history of us govt/cia denials of activities that were later documented to be true.

 

cia denials are not exactly credible.

[joecoolfrog]

Evangelical Christians form a major part of Trumps support , the pastor is one of their own , its all about Trump and the wider consequencies are unimportant to him.

[bristolboy]

6 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

some problems with this.

 

according to the current narrative, erdogan is a brutal dictator with a massive internal security and intelligence apparatus.  he would be in a position to know.

as a dictator ruling with an iron fist, he doesn't need to fake a coup.

 

cia has a history of using honorable professions.....clergy, doctors, journalists...as cover for their agents.  if the pastor is NOT a cia asset, erdogan gains nothing by holding him that he couldn't also gain by a public shaming and deportation.  he has nothing to gain and much to lose by pissing off the trump.

 

the other problem is precedent.  the us govt, cia, and other agencies have a long....well documented....history of interfering in the internal affairs of other nations, be it coups, supporting insurrections, arming and training moderate rebels, cyber attacks, regime changes, and of course assassinations.  a quick google search will show you this, along with a long history of us govt/cia denials of activities that were later documented to be true.

 

cia denials are not exactly credible.

So every time a coup happens in another nation the CIA is going to be behind it. And the only reason a model citizen likeErdogan would claim such a thing is because it's true.

[Scott]

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