Crackdown on foreigners using Thai nominees: DSI raid offices of law firm in Bangkok, Phuket and Samui

[webfact]

Crackdown on foreigners using Thai nominees: DSI raid offices of law firm in Bangkok, Phuket and Samui

 

Picture: News1live

Four offices of same investment advisory firm have been raided in Bangkok, Phuket and Samui.

 

Coordinated raids on the offices of what appears to be a single advisory firm were conducted by Department of Special Investigations police and Board of Investment representatives. 

 

Pictures showed that the company is DFDL Thailand Legal and Tax.

 

This company offers "investment advisory expertise". 

 

The raids were conducted in relation to the use of foreingers using Thai nominees to allow matters like land purchase and the operation of businesses restricted under the Foreign Business Act. 

 

Nominees have increasingly been used to circumvent the laws on foreigners owning land in Thailand and other business related matters. 

 

Two raids took place in Phuket and two others at a branch in Koh Samui and the Head Office of the company in Sathorn, Bangkok.

Manager said that the business of the company is involved in purchases amounting to 2 billion baht. 

 

One of the men facing questions over the use of nominees and financial fraud at the Phuket head office in Thalang is Piyasiri Wattanavrangkul.

 

Source: News1live

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2018-08-17

[stanleycoin]

Oh no,  here it comes.

Quick sell the house now. 

 

[anon789561]

so this thai law firm was advising foreigners to break the law so they got raided, rightly so

now when the DSI  go through their records and investigate all the purchases, well i bet there's some farangs who used this firm who will be shitting themselves right now.

in fact anyone who has used these methods to swerve the laws should be very concerned about their 'investments' right now.

 

[stanleycoin]

4 minutes ago, Happy enough said:

 

in fact anyone who has used these methods to swerve the laws should be very concerned about their 'investments' right now.

 

There be here in a minute,  to put the record straight for all the Tv

home owners. , 

Edited August 17, 2018 by stanleycoin

[jvs]

4 minutes ago, Happy enough said:

so this thai law firm was advising foreigners to break the law so they got raided, rightly so

now when the DSI  go through their records and investigate all the purchases, well i bet there's some farangs who used this firm who will be shitting themselves right now.

in fact anyone who has used these methods to swerve the laws should be very concerned about their 'investments' right now.

 

You are over reacting!!This comes around every once in awhile.If they would really go after every company set up buying houses for foreigners it would be really really big!!!

There is absolutely no way the would take your property away from you.They would give you a certain time in which you would have to sell or put in some other name.I do not believe in these panic reactions.

[NickJ]

Yeah, All the guys who could never afford a house here will be spewing how stupid it is for farangs to buy homes here. 

Seems they will be going after businesses that seek to circumvent labour issues.

[anon789561]

Just now, jvs said:

You are over reacting!!This comes around every once in awhile.If they would really go after every company set up buying houses for foreigners it would be really really big!!!

There is absolutely no way the would take your property away from you.They would give you a certain time in which you would have to sell or put in some other name.I do not believe in these panic reactions.

i'm not panicking. our properties are legal. and not panic mongering but genuinely if i had purchased in that way i would still be concerned to here this news as it's a lot of money

[anon789561]

4 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Yeah, All the guys who could never afford a house here will be spewing how stupid it is for farangs to buy homes here. 

Seems they will be going after businesses that seek to circumvent labour issues.

555. some may have multiple properties in thailand and decided that buying through a known loop hole which does not protect your investment properly is for some people but not for others. each to their own.

you sound a bit worried mate, i am sure they are only going going after the businesses that circumvent labour laws, it'll be alright

[Kinnock]

This will be an interesting case.  DFDL are a major international law firm, and I see from their website they have advised on some recent business acquisitions in Thailand - so you'd hope that they knew enough to work within the law?

 

[Peterw42]

7 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Yeah, All the guys who could never afford a house here will be spewing how stupid it is for farangs to buy homes here. 

Seems they will be going after businesses that seek to circumvent labour issues.

I have read the OP 3 times, it says nothing about going after businesses  that seek to circumvent labour issues. Am I missing something ?

[sammieuk1]

Unbelievable a Friday crack down without a Big Joke photo is very suspicious? 

[badjoke]

bad news for home owners. Its only a matter time...

[anon789561]

ahh, this threads gonna be fun. will come back to check after the gym 555

[stanleycoin]

1 minute ago, sammieuk1 said:

Unbelievable a Friday crack down without a Big Joke photo is very suspicious? 

I see the call has gone out already. 

[Slotman]

The powers that be know very well about the thousands of properties bought using the 'loophole'. Only a matter of time until they can legally take all of the property back... Imho. 

[Horace]

The problem is that the law is hopelessly muddled in this area.  I would be careful about blaming the law firm until we have more facts  Signing a document saying your are holding shares on behalf of a foreigner to make a company appear Thai is no brainer.  That is obviously an illegal nominee relationship.  

 

But what if different categories of shares have different voting rights and different economic rights?  The definition of an "Alien" in the FBA, which was enacted in 1998 to replace a military decree (called NEC 281) from the early 1970s, specifically excludes any reference to control or economic rights. A company can still be "Thai" even if there is foreign control and the shares held by foreigner have superior economic rights. 

 

There was debate over this issue in 1998, and it was decided that foreign control or giving the shares held by a foreign company superior economic rights, would not make the company an Alien (non-Thai) company) because making this sort of change to NEC 218 would jeopardize foreign investment in Thailand.  Following the 2006 Coup, there was another attempt to introduce these features into the definition into an Alien company, and it was rejected for the same reason.  And again following the 2014 Coup, there was a third attempt to do this and it was again rejected for the same reason.  

 

To change the definition of an Alien company now after the Thai government has maintained that control and economic rights don't matter in determining if a company is Thai, would essentially result in an expropriation of foreign ownership rights.  The Japanese raised this issue when this issue was raised in 2014, and that was thought to end the issue.

 

Section 36 of the FBA criminalizes the use of an illegal nominee, but short of signing document saying you are nominee holding shares on behalf of a foreigner, the definition is hopelessly muddled.  What Section 36 seems to be saying is that if a Thai holds shares in trust for a foreigner that Thai is a nominee.  Problem is that Thai law does not recognize trusts unless there is a specific Thai law providing for the creation of trusts (there is one for public companies, but not for purposes of determining if a nominee relationship exists).  In other words, Thai law does not generally include the concept (trust) necessary for a clear definition of a nominee.  

 

No idea what the law firm did here, but if the Thai government starts to say a nominee relationship exists because foreigners can control or have superior economic rights over a company, it will result in the expropriation of foreign intevestments in tens of thousands of companies, including large Japanese investments.

 

Best compromise is to simply reduce the list of restricted business to those that are really essential to Thai national security.  On land, allow limited foreign ownership in resort areas where foreigners already have effective control of much of the property.  Allow the free market to set prices.  Don't criminalize structures that are legal under the current definition of alien ownership.

 

Otherwise, Thailand is wading into economically dangerous territory that raises all sorts of issues about the security  of foreign investments, expropriation claims.  If the rules are changed to force foreigners to divest control of businesses they established, that is an expropriation of foreign investments.  This not good for business and creates the impression that no investment in Thailand is safe from a change in the rules.  This is not good for the Thai economy.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Horace

[stanleycoin]

1 minute ago, Slotman said:

The powers that be know very well about the thousands of properties bought using the 'loophole'. Only a matter of time until they can legally take all of the property back... Imho. 

I don't think they would ever do that.

But I can see a very heavy Tax on the Horizon for them.

Thank you very big,  mister Falang. 

[holy cow cm]

All this government does now is attack attack attack. Already not a friendly environment for non Chinese foreigners and getting worse. They certainly want to keep everyone at a 3rd - 4th rate human being status all the while sucking the money. On the other hand if someone wanted to buy a condo, get inline behind the Chinese as they are first to be served and buy the biggest majority now.

 

I would presume a lot of property is going to become the income of the Junta. Can fund the buy offs for the junta political head hunters

[overherebc]

57 minutes ago, Happy enough said:

so this thai law firm was advising foreigners to break the law so they got raided, rightly so

now when the DSI  go through their records and investigate all the purchases, well i bet there's some farangs who used this firm who will be shitting themselves right now.

in fact anyone who has used these methods to swerve the laws should be very concerned about their 'investments' right now.

 

Is there such a word as

ex-investments?

Is this the correct month for the yearly crackdown on this?

Edited August 17, 2018 by overherebc

[badjoke]

10 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

All this government does now is attack attack attack. Already not a friendly environment for non Chinese foreigners and getting worse. They certainly want to keep everyone at a 3rd - 4th rate human being status all the while sucking the money. On the other hand if someone wanted to buy a condo, get inline behind the Chinese as they are first to be served and buy the biggest majority now.

 

I would presume a lot of property is going to become the income of the Junta. Can fund the buy offs for the junta political head hunters

Good on them for upholding existing laws and closing loop holes. The Junta has made sweeping crackdowns across Thailand , demolishing business built on public land as well. If they can do this to their own people you better believe they can come after farang as well

Those who crave a lawless Thailand better start looking at new alternatives. Why anyone would gamble with their own home based on a loophole is beyond me

Edited August 17, 2018 by badjoke

[CGW]

44 minutes ago, badjoke said:

bad news for home owners. Its only a matter time...

First time I heard that was 19 years ago - still waiting? ? 

Guess you are renting?

[badjoke]

1 minute ago, CGW said:

First time I heard that was 19 years ago - still waiting? ? 

Guess you are renting?

You missed the 3rd option

[theguyfromanotherforum]

"I own a house in Thailand."

[BuckleUp]

All our investments here are safely in my wife's name, who is 100% Thai. Well as safe as can be, with the politics and all...

 

[transam]

50 minutes ago, badjoke said:

bad news for home owners. Its only a matter time...

Think those farangs that buy houses via a "business" thingy with no "business" accounts may be farting right now....?

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, jvs said:

There is absolutely no way the would take your property away from you

If you believe that you will believe anything.

 

If one day they decide they want to do it, they will. And nothing and no one will stop them.

 

Even entirely legal farang-name condos are not immune to a sudden and erratic change of the law.

[KittenKong]

2 minutes ago, BuckleUp said:

All our investments here are safely in my wife's name, who is 100% Thai.

I can introduce you to a thousand farangs who have lost everything to their Thai wives. You may be luckier, but it will only be a matter of luck.

[Vacuum]

3 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I can introduce you to a thousand farangs who have lost everything to their Thai wives. You may be luckier, but it will only be a matter of luck.

They've never heard of; don't 'invest' more than you can afford to lose.?

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I can introduce you to a thousand farangs who have lost everything to their Thai wives. You may be luckier, but it will only be a matter of luck.

That depends a bit I have gone though a divorce.. with a Thai lady in Thailand.. I came out with the car and the house. You just have to make good choices. 

[CGW]

29 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I can introduce you to a thousand farangs who have lost everything to their Thai wives. You may be luckier, but it will only be a matter of luck.

You should change your circle of acquaintances, I have been here 30 years & don't know one person who has lost everything (apart from those that passed:( )