Children

[BHW]

Can a Farang father move out of house and take his 6 year old child with him to live in good accommodation in another town without the Thai mothers permission if not are there ways to over come this.

[Gulfsailor]

Go to family court. The judge will rule on custody and tell you what can and can't do. I personally know two foreigners who received full custody of the child(ren) after a breakup when that was in the best interest of the child(ren). 

[Preacher]

First question would be if you are married to the mother and if not have legitimized the children as yours. 

[Deserted]

Family Court for sure. 

[scorecard]

On 8/18/2018 at 11:06 AM, Preacher said:

First question would be if you are married to the mother and if not have legitimized the children as yours. 

To BHW:

 

".... legitimized the children as yours. "

 

This is a very important / very critical point, you must ensure you fully understand what it means.

 

Good luck

[AlQaholic]

You have to be legally married to the mother. If not married, you have no rights to the child whatsoever, sole responsibility is with the mother. This is the Thai law and one of the reasons so many Thai men can just walk away from a relationship without having to support the mother and child/ren. If you are legally married and you are the father, you share responsibilities and can go to court, but without marriage, you have no legal leverage.

Edited August 21, 2018 by AlQaholic

[Hans Rayong]

56 minutes ago, AlQaholic said:

You have to be legally married to the mother. If not married, you have no rights to the child whatsoever, sole responsibility is with the mother. This is the Thai law and one of the reasons so many Thai men can just walk away from a relationship without having to support the mother and child/ren. If you are legally married and you are the father, you share responsibilities and can go to court, but without marriage, you have no legal leverage.

I'm not married, but I sought shared custody from family court when my children were born. I still live with my girlfriend and our children.

[Scouse123]

59 minutes ago, Hans Rayong said:

I'm not married, but I sought shared custody from family court when my children were born. I still live with my girlfriend and our children.

 

And how did you get on legally with shared custody? ........did the court award shared custody?

 

If you were to just take the child away without any consultation with the mother, or a court order, you will probably be arrested and charged with kidnapping the youngster or a similar offense; like you would in any country in the world with any rule of law.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Scouse123

[Suradit69]

2 hours ago, AlQaholic said:

one of the reasons so many Thai men can just walk away from a relationship without having to support the mother and child/ren.

And of course farang men never walk away (or board an airplane) from their responsibilities. 

 

I know of at least three examples of Thai men taking full responsibility for their children when the mothers of those children walked.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Suradit69

[BritManToo]

18 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

And of course farang men never walk away (or board an airplane) from their responsibilities. 

 

I know of at least three examples of Thai men taking full responsibility for their children when the mothers of those children walked.

Why the racism?

[Hans Rayong]

3 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

 

And how did you get on legally with shared custody? ........did the court award shared custody?

 

If you were to just take the child away without any consultation with the mother, or a court order, you will probably be arrested and charged with kidnapping the youngster or a similar offense; like you would in any country in the world with any rule of law.

I and the mother jointly applied for shared custody. The court decided to give us shared custody in the same way as if we were married. When I go alone with the children abroad, I only show up the court order for immigration.

[Esso49]

6 hours ago, AlQaholic said:

You have to be legally married to the mother. If not married, you have no rights to the child whatsoever, sole responsibility is with the mother. This is the Thai law and one of the reasons so many Thai men can just walk away from a relationship without having to support the mother and child/ren. If you are legally married and you are the father, you share responsibilities and can go to court, but without marriage, you have no legal leverage.

To clarify that further on a point of law,  you have to be legally married to her at the time of their birth. Otherwise you are correct.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Esso49

[Hans Rayong]

17 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

To clarify that further on a point of law,  you have to be legally married to her at the time of their birth. Otherwise you are correct.

You are wrong!

My children’s mother and me have never been married to each other.

Below extract from court order.

"The Petitioner has submitted a Petition seeking permission from the Court. After obtaining the aforesaid evidences supported by the Report from the Director of Chon Buri Juvenile Observation and Protection Center, the Court deems that the Petitioner has presented documents proving that he is the minor's natural father; therefore, the fact could be believed as true to the evidences given by the Petitioner, hence the Petitioner's request to register the minor as his legitimate child is for the future benefits of the child. Therefore, the Court has issued Order allowing the Petitioner to register accepting the minor; namely, Master XXX XXX, as the Petitioner's legitimate child." 

 

Edited August 21, 2018 by Hans Rayong

[Scouse123]

1 hour ago, Hans Rayong said:

I and the mother jointly applied for shared custody. The court decided to give us shared custody in the same way as if we were married. When I go alone with the children abroad, I only show up the court order for immigration.

 

Hans Rayong,

 

I still feel you would be very ill-advised to take the children without intending to return them to their mother's custody. Things can go very wrong. You need to go back to court.

[Hans Rayong]

3 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

 

Hans Rayong,

 

I still feel you would be very ill-advised to take the children without intending to return them to their mother's custody. Things can go very wrong. You need to go back to court.

 I just responded to your text: "To clarify that further on a point of law,  you have to be legally married to her at the time of their birth."

If you have shared custody, neither the father nor the mother can take the child to another place without the other parent's approval. If the other parent does not give approval of the child moving, you must go to court and seek sole custody.

[Sumarianson]

To get back to the original post. If the father has the necessary documentation from the local Amphur showing that he is the father and signed by the mother and child, then what would be the case if he removed the child from the mother? 

He cannot in this case be accused of kidnap as it is his own child 'legally'.

The police should not intervene in this case as it is a civil matter and not criminal. He could not take the child out of the country without the concent of the other parent. Without documentation legitimizing (in Thai) the parent and child relationship then you would be in a spot of trouble. A birth cert is no good as proof. The other parent along with the child can go to the local council offices to to legitimise the relationship if the partner or spouse is willing. However if not then DNA and a court ruling is required. 

[Hans Rayong]

20 minutes ago, Sumarianson said:

To get back to the original post. If the father has the necessary documentation from the local Amphur showing that he is the father and signed by the mother and child, then what would be the case if he removed the child from the mother? 

He cannot in this case be accused of kidnap as it is his own child 'legally'.

The police should not intervene in this case as it is a civil matter and not criminal. He could not take the child out of the country without the concent of the other parent. Without documentation legitimizing (in Thai) the parent and child relationship then you would be in a spot of trouble. A birth cert is no good as proof. The other parent along with the child can go to the local council offices to to legitimise the relationship if the partner or spouse is willing. However if not then DNA and a court ruling is required. 

"The other parent along with the child can go to the local council offices to to legitimise the relationship if the partner or spouse is willing."

The whole truth: The child must sign and the child must be old enaught to sign (I guess teenager). If not you must go to family court.

[Preacher]

There is no age set in Thai law for the child, but in general it is 7 years. Sometimes 6 years old is accepted, sometimes not.

 

On another note: legitimizing a child is not the same as being granted parental rights. But often it is combined, I believe in Thailand the rule is that you will receive both unless the mother objects to the father getting parental rights. Than a judge will have to rule about that.

[Hans Rayong]

In most Western countries, the Mother and Father of the child get equal rights and obligations. Under Thai Law, this isn't the case. According to section 1546 of CCCT, when a child is born and the mother is NOT married to the father, the father has no LEGAL RIGHTS over the child. Only the mother has rights (and obligations) over the child.

A person could be named on the birth certificate as the father, but his rights are NOT legalized under Thai law. Even with a DNA test, he could be the father on the birth certificate and be the biological father, but he won't be the LEGALIZED FATHER.

There are 3 exceptions mentioned in article 1547:

1. If there is a subsequent marriage between the parents
2. If there is a registration made at the amphur
3. If there is a judgment by the Court.

Exception one is easily understood.

Exception Two is more complex: Both parents must consent that the Father is the legitimate Father and the local authorities (Amphur or Khet in Bangkok) will normally require the child to be old enough to understand and accept this situation.

In Thailand, each registration office is different and they often do not apply the same rules. However, they will normally legalize the Father ONLY when the child is over 7 years-old, able to sign his name, able to consent, and all parties will have to give their consent to the local registration office.

If the child is younger and there is an attempt to register the Father's rights at the amphur, the applicant is often told to get a judgment from the Court before it will be possible to legalize the rights of a Father. After a Court decision is rendered and, if it is positive, becomes enforceable (after 30 days), it is then possible to use the judgment to legally register the parent’s rights at the amphur.

Exception Three: Re a judgment by the Court, see the section below called "action to legitimate a child under a Thai Court".

[BritManToo]

20 minutes ago, Hans Rayong said:

In most Western countries, the Mother and Father of the child get equal rights and obligations.

That just isn't true.

In the UK I got the right to see my kids (under supervision) for 2 hours a week and to pay for everything.

Most of my divorced UK pals had similar rights.

[AlQaholic]

On 8/21/2018 at 2:57 PM, Hans Rayong said:

You are wrong!

My children’s mother and me have never been married to each other.

Below extract from court order.

"The Petitioner has submitted a Petition seeking permission from the Court. After obtaining the aforesaid evidences supported by the Report from the Director of Chon Buri Juvenile Observation and Protection Center, the Court deems that the Petitioner has presented documents proving that he is the minor's natural father; therefore, the fact could be believed as true to the evidences given by the Petitioner, hence the Petitioner's request to register the minor as his legitimate child is for the future benefits of the child. Therefore, the Court has issued Order allowing the Petitioner to register accepting the minor; namely, Master XXX XXX, as the Petitioner's legitimate child." 

 

Interesting and good to know. The law text is clear on this subject, but clearly, the Judges can override the law, or/and the law text translation to English maybe not 100% correct.

[AlQaholic]

On 8/21/2018 at 10:57 AM, Suradit69 said:

And of course farang men never walk away (or board an airplane) from their responsibilities. 

 

I know of at least three examples of Thai men taking full responsibility for their children when the mothers of those children walked.

Yes, I know one Thai friend with three children, Wife walked away. What I am saying is, Thai men can legally  just walk away from their wife and children, while the wife is doing it illegally  if she walks away.

[Mike Teavee]

On 8/23/2018 at 1:31 PM, Hans Rayong said:

In most Western countries, the Mother and Father of the child get equal rights and obligations. Under Thai Law, this isn't the case. According to section 1546 of CCCT, when a child is born and the mother is NOT married to the father, the father has no LEGAL RIGHTS over the child. Only the mother has rights (and obligations) over the child.

A person could be named on the birth certificate as the father, but his rights are NOT legalized under Thai law. Even with a DNA test, he could be the father on the birth certificate and be the biological father, but he won't be the LEGALIZED FATHER.

There are 3 exceptions mentioned in article 1547:

1. If there is a subsequent marriage between the parents
2. If there is a registration made at the amphur
3. If there is a judgment by the Court.

Exception one is easily understood.

Exception Two is more complex: Both parents must consent that the Father is the legitimate Father and the local authorities (Amphur or Khet in Bangkok) will normally require the child to be old enough to understand and accept this situation.

In Thailand, each registration office is different and they often do not apply the same rules. However, they will normally legalize the Father ONLY when the child is over 7 years-old, able to sign his name, able to consent, and all parties will have to give their consent to the local registration office.

If the child is younger and there is an attempt to register the Father's rights at the amphur, the applicant is often told to get a judgment from the Court before it will be possible to legalize the rights of a Father. After a Court decision is rendered and, if it is positive, becomes enforceable (after 30 days), it is then possible to use the judgment to legally register the parent’s rights at the amphur.

Exception Three: Re a judgment by the Court, see the section below called "action to legitimate a child under a Thai Court".

 

Hypothetical question, but what would happen if your partner died & though you had your name on the birth certificate you hadn't legitimized the fact that you were the child's father?

 

Would the child be considered to be an orphan?

 

 

[Hans Rayong]

4 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

 

Hypothetical question, but what would happen if your partner died & though you had your name on the birth certificate you hadn't legitimized the fact that you were the child's father?

 

Would the child be considered to be an orphan?

 

 

That your name is on birth certificate means nothing. Someone must be mentioned as father on the birth certificate. It may be a neighbor a relative or a fictional person. The child becomes orphaned until you can prove to the court that you are the father.