Alcoholic friend in trouble

[pmarlowe]

If your friend is planning to stop or cut back and his withdrawal fears are physical as well as mental, a good psychiatrist will prescribe and anti convulsive, an anti depressant or anti anxiety drug along with a vitamin B complex. These are the most common needs for withdrawal. On the other hand, some people quit with no physical symptoms. The cravings can be tough though. 

[swissman53]

I would not try to reduce the amount of beers.

It will never work.

It would be the same as a little bit pregnant....

Go to the hospital for getting sober and the first day you are out of the hospital go to a AA meeting.

They don't bite there. And you don't have to be ashamed. Because they know nearly  everything about you before you say one word

[moontang]

4 hours ago, sanemax said:

7-11's are great for stpopping selling alcohol at midnight .

Its the 24 hour mom & pop shops which are the problem 

compulsive people are everywhere...for every person the ridiculous time of day laws prevent from having an un-needed beer, there are numerous others, who start several hours earlier than usual, or simply stockpile.  Perhaps, you should move to Utah.

[Tony125]

19 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

He needs professional help it isn't just physical his problem is in the head first.

I'm not very confident of Thai AA, anything is better than nothing but if possible if he can afford all the beers seriously think about going home and getting the detox there. 

Eighteen beer a day,  for how long, I'm sure he's already having some other physical problems his Liver must be taking a beating?

Good luck to your friend.

Aug 6th 2018 my best friend only 56 years old succumbed to the ravages of alcohol. He took an early retirement  6 months before and was drinking 10 beers a  night after work.  With no job to go to started drinking more, kept promising to come over here cut down drinking exercise bla bla but couldn't leave his drunken drug taking GF. Died of a massive heart attack. Didn.t want to go to  AA because  didn't want to give up alcohol completely-- like DemiLavato

and others think moderation is possible. For normal people yes for addicts/alcoholics ,NO!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/celebrity/sons-of-anarchys-alan-oneill-died-of-alcohol-overconsumption-head-trauma-after-possible-fall/ar-BBL9DiM?li=BBnb7Kz

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/celebrity/demi-lovato-started-to-believe-the-myth-of-moderation-before-apparent-overdose-source/ar-BBL3Dp0?li=BBnb7Kz

“Demi began to feel that the belief that total abstinence is the only way to deal with addiction is false,” “She essentially said that she felt it wasn’t the only way and that she can handle her addictions, and she would rather attempt controlled consumption. She felt that she could drink in moderation and she believed she wouldn’t return to harder drug use, and that alcohol was never really a problem as much as other things.”

 

[zmak]

Get the hell out of pattaya/jomtien ASAP, The extreme heat , cheap booze and easy little pretty's are a recipe for disaster for those who are to weak to fight it.

 

tell yourself or your friend to get back home to cooler climates where not every form of socializing occurs in a bar and your not panting for a cold beer after walking a mile.

 

[German farang]

It's all about will power & support from an real friend. In my past (long time ago) I "dryed out" a girlfriend (just a friend) from drinking (still she's dry!) and another friend who was heavy on almost all aviable drugs (both cases at different times & locations)!

I've done it by force, total insulation & (private & discrete support) support of another medic friend.

Both cases took multible months! 

I'll never ever want to experience that again!!!

Edit: only the drinking girl still is dry. It's like stated: everything about the power of iron will!!!

Edited August 20, 2018 by German farang

[jmd8800]

9 hours ago, myfriendu said:

I would say these guys would be experts, if your ill go to the experts in what ever illness you have rather than ask on a board like this, you see what the next lot of comments posted what kind of advice  you will expect.

 http://www.aathailand.org/

 

This is the best place for your friend to go. After all of the withdrawal is past he will need lots of help rebuilding his life and adapting new patterns of behavior to keep from returning to alcohol and other mood altering substances.

 

If your friend needs medical attention these people will know..... after all they have years and years of experience with this sort of thing.

[helloagain]

7 hours ago, kiniyow said:

All Hospitals will know what to do...They seen this often

Go to a bar

[hobobo]

6 hours ago, sanemax said:

7-11's are great for stpopping selling alcohol at midnight .

Its the 24 hour mom & pop shops which are the problem 

It depends where you live. At my last residence in the back streets of Naklua there were  two 7-Elevens and one Family Mart within hundred yards of my apartment. I could buy beer, Sam Song or any other alcoholic drink at any time of day or night; in fact, it was easier at night!

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, thailand49 said:

He needs professional help it isn't just physical his problem is in the head first.

I'm not very confident of Thai AA, anything is better than nothing but if possible if he can afford all the beers seriously think about going home and getting the detox there. 

Eighteen beer a day,  for how long, I'm sure he's already having some other physical problems his Liver must be taking a beating?

Good luck to your friend.

Have you ever been to an AA meeting in Thailand?

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, zmak said:

Get the hell out of pattaya/jomtien ASAP, The extreme heat , cheap booze and easy little pretty's are a recipe for disaster for those who are to weak to fight it.

 

tell yourself or your friend to get back home to cooler climates where not every form of socializing occurs in a bar and your not panting for a cold beer after walking a mile.

 

Have you ever been to a Pattaya AA meeting?  http://www.aathailand.org/meetings/Eastern Seaboard-Jomtien-Pattaya-Islands

Edited August 20, 2018 by marcusarelus

[Sheryl]

1. Moved to the "drink too much forum".

 

2. Intending to stop drinking and with history of withdrawal symptoms he should get under doctor's care first so that detox can be medically supervised from the onset as opposed to showing up in an ER after things are already bad. Please ignore all the DIY advice. Alcoholic withdrawal can be very dangerous.

 

This needs a psychiatrist specializing in addiction medicine. I highly tecommend Dr. Pichai Saengcharnchai at Bumrungrad in Bangkok. The very best and very compassionate and non-judgemental, kind man. If your friend refuses to go to Bkk one of the psychs at Bangkok Pattata Hosp has some training abd experience in addiction medicine though I have no feedback on him: Dr. Somchai Mulasukhom.

 

3. Should definitely go to AA and they have meetings in Pattaya area. There he can get advice and support from people who have themselves been through this. Contrary to what some people fear he does not have to believe in God and will not be pressured to be religious. If he doesn't like the people at one meeting, try a different one until he finds a good fit.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

[stud858]

37 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Please ignore all the DIY advice. Alcoholic withdrawal can be very dangerous.

When I was younger I put doctors on a pedastal.

I started thinking more about who they actually are.

They are well read. DIYers can read up on the exact same materials.

They have the advantage of seeing many practical cases. DIYers can view videos on net and talk amongst forums and friends to get a similar practical experience.

They have access to equipment.

DIYers can now easily buy most.medical equipment i.e. blood pressure monitor.

 

Doctors don't always have your best interests in mind. I've seen some shockers. Sitting in an office all day and hurrying your visit along to get onto the next patient. All the while with not keeping up with current treatment technologies. They don't have the time.

DIYers who have time can spend a whole months time on their own diagnosis.

I say go and see a doctor and judge and question what they say.  Use a doctor as a tool for your diagnosis and treatment.  After all, the overall knowledge of a doctor will be much greater, but when it gets down to pin pointing a solution DIY is an important part.

DIY does not scare me now that I realised a doctor is human after all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 20, 2018 by stud858

[Sheryl]

There is more involved than reading. There is the value of hands on clinical experience (assuming it is an experienced doctor) and this cannot be overestimated. How things read in a text and online do not capture how things actually look, sound and feel in practice. Very experienced, conscientious doctors and nurses develop an invaluable sort of (for lack of a better word) clinical instinct.

 

In the case of drug and alcohol withdrawal, there are medications that may help/be indicated which cannot be legally bought over the counter.

 

Lastly people with addictions often have skewed judgement without realizing it...and a reluctance to avail of or accept help is sometimes part of their disease. Simply accepting help, provided they do so with a compassionate and highly skilled expert, has in itself a beneficial effect.

 

Certainly there are doctors of the sort you describe but there are others who take the time to listen and bring far more to bear than anyone could get just reading up on their own. That is the sort of person I have specifically recommended.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

[Jingjock]

I am ex alcoholic, also my friend who came over here to visit also alky, had two siezures through drink. I would suggest that he discuss this with a doctor at either BPH or Pattaya International. To stop drinking, you need to reduce it on a daily basis, not stop cold turkey as they say. You can get tablets to treat the central nervous system, but this is for a maximum of two weeks only. Hope this is some help, good luck

[Elad]

The OP said "he drinks 18 beers a day" - what beer is he drinking 4 or 5%? And is that pints or bottles?  If it's bottles 275ml or 330ml? 

Drinking 18 bottle 275ml is only like 9 pints. 

[Elad]

The OP said "he drinks 18 beers a day" - what beer is he drinking 4 or 5%? And is that pints or bottles?  If it's bottles 275ml or 330ml? 

Drinking 18 bottle 275ml is only like 9 pints. 

[lamyai3]

14 hours ago, sanemax said:

7-11's are great for stpopping selling alcohol at midnight .

Its the 24 hour mom & pop shops which are the problem 

With a small number of exceptions, 7-11 and Family Mart in Pattaya sell round the clock. 

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, Jingjock said:

I am ex alcoholic, also my friend who came over here to visit also alky, had two siezures through drink. I would suggest that he discuss this with a doctor at either BPH or Pattaya International. To stop drinking, you need to reduce it on a daily basis, not stop cold turkey as they say. You can get tablets to treat the central nervous system, but this is for a maximum of two weeks only. Hope this is some help, good luck

What is an ex alcoholic?  I didn't know there was a cure.  I've been to 152 AA meetings in Pattaya and met fellows who had not had a drink in 40 years but they were still alcoholics.  I'm sure they would like to know how to become an ex alcoholic. 

[thailand49]

10 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Have you ever been to an AA meeting in Thailand?

To be honest, I have a negative general feeling about the quality of medicine in Thailand and that is totally on me and my opinion.  That is why I followed up with " something is better than nothing "  if he can't go home. 

If he is from the West, I can safely say he has many more options and would get much better professional care even at a County Hospital.

My view living here is a culture of drinking with Thais in my book

from my experience, in general, there is a huge drinking problem  here in Thailand which is view to be normal in their culture so the funding for such program and expertise would be lacking in my opinion and yes that is a generalization and if I was in the shoes would have no problem attending AA here if I couldn't go home.

[soistalker]

2 hours ago, Elad said:

The OP said "he drinks 18 beers a day" - what beer is he drinking 4 or 5%? And is that pints or bottles?  If it's bottles 275ml or 330ml? 

Drinking 18 bottle 275ml is only like 9 pints. 

1. He drinks 330ml heinikin cans. 16-18 a day. His plan is to slowly cut down over three weeks to a month until he is down to one can a day, at which point he will quit in the hopes that he will have weaned himself off alcohol.

2. He still is looking for a particular hospital recommendation in Pattaya if he needs an ER.

 

[marcusarelus]

5 hours ago, thailand49 said:

To be honest, I have a negative general feeling about the quality of medicine in Thailand and that is totally on me and my opinion.  That is why I followed up with " something is better than nothing "  if he can't go home. 

If he is from the West, I can safely say he has many more options and would get much better professional care even at a County Hospital.

My view living here is a culture of drinking with Thais in my book

from my experience, in general, there is a huge drinking problem  here in Thailand which is view to be normal in their culture so the funding for such program and expertise would be lacking in my opinion and yes that is a generalization and if I was in the shoes would have no problem attending AA here if I couldn't go home.

I got sober in the USA under the care of a very expensive doctor.  He suggested I go to AA.  I found the Pattaya AA far better than Stateside AA.  I also found the healthcare in Thailand better than VA hospitals and my other care options in the US.  I really don't like the pharmacy system in America.   A very serious young doctor at Pattaya Memorial hospital cured me when I had a relapse (I thought I was an ex alcoholic.) I will be forever indebted to the Thai health care system and AA for saving my life on a number of occasions.  Thailand comes in around 70th in most surveys of per capita alcohol consumption. 

[marcusarelus]

5 hours ago, soistalker said:

1. He drinks 330ml heinikin cans. 16-18 a day. His plan is to slowly cut down over three weeks to a month until he is down to one can a day, at which point he will quit in the hopes that he will have weaned himself off alcohol.

2. He still is looking for a particular hospital recommendation in Pattaya if he needs an ER.

 

I went to Pattaya Memorial and they did well by me.  The experts are at AA and there is a meeting close to Pattaya Memorial hospital.  I'd go ask them.  Might be a good idea to stop drinking for a few hours before you go the the AA meeting.  Search Pattaya Skaw Beach group.  Very close to the hospital if you have problems.  I think his plan is silly but I'm not a doctor. 

[Elad]

8 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

What is an ex alcoholic?  I didn't know there was a cure.  I've been to 152 AA meetings in Pattaya and met fellows who had not had a drink in 40 years but they were still alcoholics.  I'm sure they would like to know how to become an ex alcoholic. 

He probably means a 'recovering alcoholic' - an alcoholic still drinks whereas a recovering alcoholic doesn't. 

[soistalker]

3 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

  I think his plan is silly but I'm not a doctor. 

Why do you think it is silly?

[marcusarelus]

20 minutes ago, soistalker said:

Why do you think it is silly?

Knowing the alcoholic personality.  Cutting back for a month and at the end of the month there will be another excuse to keep drinking.  Go to the hospital.  Tell the doctor how much you drink and tell him you want to stop today.  He will facilitate stopping immediately.   Not rocket science.  If you want to stop drinking - stop drinking.  The problems don't come from stopping the problems come from continuing.  If the doctor is concerned he can admit you for a couple of days of observation. 

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Elad said:

He probably means a 'recovering alcoholic' - an alcoholic still drinks whereas a recovering alcoholic doesn't. 

Go to an AA meeting and you'll understand my comment.  At the beginning of every meeting you introduce yourself.  It is amazing how many people even after 20 years can't just say, "Hi, I'm Bob an alcoholic."  They go through all this denial and say something like, "I'm a grateful recovering alcoholic."  If you're are at an AA meeting you're a drunk.  20 years dry of 20 minutes dry you are still only a glass away from being a drunk.  Get over thinking you are something special is one of the first steps to changing. 

[thailand49]

5 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

I got sober in the USA under the care of a very expensive doctor.  He suggested I go to AA.  I found the Pattaya AA far better than Stateside AA.  I also found the healthcare in Thailand better than VA hospitals and my other care options in the US.  I really don't like the pharmacy system in America.   A very serious young doctor at Pattaya Memorial hospital cured me when I had a relapse (I thought I was an ex alcoholic.) I will be forever indebted to the Thai health care system and AA for saving my life on a number of occasions.  Thailand comes in around 70th in most surveys of per capita alcohol consumption. 

Although negative as noted in general always glad to hear that it isn't as negative as it seems so good to hear about AA in Pattaya.

When it comes to medical training here in Thailand it isn't remotely close to America or the Western world. My experience with a number of hospitals in Pattaya particularly BHP, they might prop up a lot of oversea training but when you examine the certifications it is mainly seminars courses. I really wonder if I came down with a really unknown problem would they have the Doctors or training to critically think and find the problem. Then there is the annoying overcharging and unwarranted test to get every baht out of us. Regardless, of my view, living here if something happens I have no problem being taken to a Thai hospital what choice do I have as I said something is better than nothing. Hopefully, it is nothing serious they can address or fix so far so good.  My greatest wish is when it comes my time I hope I just dropped dead like my father, quick and easy. Otherwise, my plan is if I do get sick here hope I'm strong enough to make the 16 hours flight and go home.

When it comes to the V.A. although not a veteran the location determine the service.  In San Francisco and Oakland from my experience is top notch, my older brother was a veteran and he got excellent care under the system he had high blood pressure and had a number of small strokes, they had communities clinics better than a private Doctor office visit never had to wait for anything any major test or operation he was sent to the S.F. the VA hospital and done within a week. When he came down with stage 4 cancer to the throat and lung he had a battery of Doctors looking after him and when all was lost they made space for him in the hospice unit until it was time for him. In the end, our family never saw a request for any money.

Like many stats especially for Thailand, the numbers can be misleading. It isn't the consumption but those doing the consumption in my view living with Thais, many drink as if everyday is Songkran. You never hear Thais say that guy has a drinking problem. Every day I see guys working, driving, buying liquor with their last baht instead of buying food for themselves or feeding their kids.  I stand by my position that there is lots more alcoholic in Thailand than it is being reported due to their culture not understanding it is a disease.

Although you can consider yourself a ex-alcoholic you will always be one and if you look at it that way you have a better chance. How do I know?  in my job prior to retirement, one of my duties was to help my co-workers find help and save their job while they get addiction help.

Yes, the Pharmacy business in American sucks especially the cost. We as citizens pay for the discovery and then we get sock again in the pocket so that other countries get the benefits. Thailand, easy to get medication but they hand it out like candy, you go to a Government hospital wait hours and come away with barely anyone seeing you a bag full of pills for a headache. An answer to a problem is always a pill.

Every negative opinion I have come from a Private hospital which supposes to have the best training and minds go to a Government for something really serious in general better have a Will done?

Never the less, regardless of my negatives I enjoy hearing good stories like yours when it comes my time I hope it comes out o.k.

A good conversation I wish you good health especially staying off the sauce, don't get addicted to a substitute.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2018 by thailand49

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, thailand49 said:

Although negative as noted in general always glad to hear that it isn't as negative as it seems so good to hear about AA in Pattaya.

When it comes to medical training here in Thailand it isn't remotely close to America or the Western world. My experience with a number of hospitals in Pattaya particularly BHP, they might prop up a lot of oversea training but when you examine the certifications it is mainly seminars courses. I really wonder if I came down with a really unknown problem would they have the Doctors or training to critically think and find the problem. Then there is the annoying overcharging and unwarranted test to get every baht out of us. Regardless, of my view, living here if something happens I have no problem being taken to a Thai hospital what choice do I have as I said something is better than nothing. Hopefully, it is nothing serious they can address or fix so far so good.  My greatest wish is when it comes my time I hope I just dropped dead like my father, quick and easy. Otherwise, my plan is if I do get sick here hope I'm strong enough to make the 16 hours flight and go home.

When it comes to the V.A. although not a veteran the location determine the service.  In San Francisco and Oakland from my experience is top notch, my older brother was a veteran and he got excellent care under the system he had high blood pressure and had a number of small strokes, they had communities clinics better than a private Doctor office visit never had to wait for anything any major test or operation he was sent to the S.F. the VA hospital and done within a week. When he came down with stage 4 cancer to the throat and lung he had a battery of Doctors looking after him and when all was lost they made space for him in the hospice unit until it was time for him. In the end, our family never saw a request for any money.

Like many stats especially for Thailand, the numbers can be misleading. It isn't the consumption but those doing the consumption in my view living with Thais, many drink as if everyday is Songkran. You never hear Thais say that guy has a drinking problem. Every day I see guys working, driving, buying liquor with their last baht instead of buying food for themselves or feeding their kids.  I stand by my position that there is lots more alcoholic in Thailand than it is being reported due to their culture not understanding it is a disease.

Although you can consider yourself a ex-alcoholic you will always be one and if you look at it that way you have a better chance. How do I know?  in my job prior to retirement, one of my duties was to help my co-workers find help and save their job while they get addiction help.

Yes, the Pharmacy business in American sucks especially the cost. We as citizens pay for the discovery and then we get sock again in the pocket so that other countries get the benefits. Thailand, easy to get medication but they hand it out like candy, you go to a Government hospital wait hours and come away with barely anyone seeing you a bag full of pills for a headache. An answer to a problem is always a pill.

Every negative opinion I have come from a Private hospital which supposes to have the best training and minds go to a Government for something really serious in general better have a Will done?

Never the less, regardless of my negatives I enjoy hearing good stories like yours when it comes my time I hope it comes out o.k.

A good conversation I wish you good health especially staying off the sauce, don't get addicted to a substitute.

Medical training.  Check the reputable rating services like https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/rankings?page=116

 

You will find a number of Thai med schools ranked higher than USA med schools.  Same with the drinking per capita.  If you want to substitute anecdotal experiences rather than factual information from reputable reporting sources of course you will be correct. 

 

Another thing I like about Thai medical care is the requirement that new doctors spend (I think) 8 years at a government hospital. 

 

You are repeating many cliches about Thai medicine about the pills thing.  20 years of going to Thai hospitals has given me a good grasp of what is real and what is cliche.

 

A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

 

I'll take my chances in Thailand.

 

AA in America is boring and PC.  Pattaya AA (in my experience) was never boring and at least as entertaining as the local movies and the members always being up for going out to dinner after meetings.

 

At my age I don't do things are aren't fun and AA meetings in Pattaya are fun.  I had to drag myself to meetings in America (Not drinking is easy - don't drink and go to meetings) but not here.  Here I looked forward to it. 

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2018 by marcusarelus

[likerdup1]

Withdrawal from alcohol can be VERY SERIOUS if one has been drinking daily and consuming more and more. DT's, heart failure etc.. is all possible if not done with care. Doing it yourself is not recommended. There are some detox units in and around Thailand.

 

The AA Thailand web site should have a phone number. AA does not offer detox service, but the person that answers the phone may have info on detox centers. A good hospital should offer these services. NOT emergency. He could probably check himself into Bangkok Pattaya  to dry out under a doctors care etc..

 

What AA does offer is a program of recovery AFTER an alcoholic has detoxed so they will not go back to it. (Alcoholics lack will power to abstain on there own entirely for good, which is necessary for alcoholics because they also cannot moderate) So anybody thinking it's just a matter of "just say no" has no idea what alcoholism is. Many alcoholics wish to stop / wish they could quit but find they cannot do it entirely and relapse repeatedly. AA has a way to stop relapsing .. recovery from alcoholism.

Edited August 21, 2018 by likerdup1