September 2014 - Family visitor receives £125,000 damages for mistreatment by immigration officials

[darren1971]

September 2014

 

"stark findings of dishonesty and manufacture of evidence by senior immigration officials."

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20170310034819/https://www.freemovement.org.uk/family-visitor-receives-125000-damages-for-mistreatment-by-immigration-officials/

Edited September 4, 2018 by blackcab
Post edited to show date of referenced article

[7by7]

Any reason why you have started a topic about an archived four year old article from Colin Yeo's blog about a four year old court case?

 

Appalling treatment, of course; but what does one incident in the last four years out of the millions who have passed through immigration at Heathrow since then prove?

[darren1971]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Any reason why you have started a topic about an archived four year old article from Colin Yeo's blog about a four year old court case?

 

Appalling treatment, of course; but what does one incident in the last four years out of the millions who have passed through immigration at Heathrow since then prove?

It's a very interesting read, in fact the whole blog is eye opening. I imagine you don't like it because he tends to disagree with a lot of the information you give out.

 

[thonglorjimmy]

4 hours ago, darren1971 said:

It's a very interesting read, in fact the whole blog is eye opening. I imagine you don't like it because he tends to disagree with a lot of the information you give out.

 

Where does 7by7 say he doesn't like it?
He says that it was appalling treatment, and I agree, but totally out of context with regard to the purpose of this forum, where people give a considerable amount of time passing on their advice and experience regarding the visa application process, which most people are grateful to receive, whilst others have their own agenda.
Reading through some of the posts on here you seem to have been the recipient of a good deal of guidance and advice, but you now seem to be trawling through old and irrelevent blogs to support your blinkered views.
This lady was issued with a visa on appeal, her gripe was about the treatment she received at the UK Border and her detention.

Edited September 3, 2018 by thonglorjimmy

[7by7]

20 hours ago, darren1971 said:

It's a very interesting read, in fact the whole blog is eye opening. I imagine you don't like it because he tends to disagree with a lot of the information you give out.

 

I have been reading Colin Yeo's free movement blog for many years; I have found him to be a useful resource and have quoted him and linked to his blog many times in the past.

 

There have been occasions when what he has said is different to what I believed to be the case. As he is a well respected barrister with much experience in immigration matters and I am merely a well read amateur, I have always changed my belief when corrected by information from his blog; indeed have always done so when corrected by information from any reliable source.

 

However, what I have never done, and never would do, is use old, archived articles from his blog, or any other source, in a feeble attempt to prove myself right and everyone else wrong.

 

Your numerous posts lately show that you obviously have a problem with the advice given on this site; even though you have been the beneficiary of said advice in the past. I suggest that in future you seek advice from a source more to your liking.

[magicroundabout]

All I can say is I've used this forum for several years now. It's been a great help in getting  my girlfriend (now wife) get visas (both visit and flr). Recently, I've helped several friends get visas from my knowledge gained from this forum. I'm grateful for all help given by the contributors. Albeit I do appreciate the visa process is far from perfect. 

[NanLaew]

On 9/2/2018 at 10:50 PM, darren1971 said:

... I imagine you don't like it because he tends to disagree with a lot of the information you give out.

[owl sees all]

Marco's thread on sex for the over 40s is still going strong after 4 years. It's even interesting or it's not. This new posting is a decent read.

 

[7by7]

3 hours ago, owl sees all said:

Marco's thread on sex for the over 40s is still going strong after 4 years. It's even interesting or it's not. This new posting is a decent read.

 

It's an 'decent read' of one poor woman's horrendous experience at Heathrow immigration over four years ago.

 

The OP's perceived beef is with the visa application process (see his other posts) and this story does not have anything to do with visa applications or processing as she had a visa.

 

She may not be the only person to have suffered so at UK immigration, probably isn't; but the fact remains that millions of people have passed through immigration at Heathrow, and all other UK ports of entry, both before and since without encountering any problems at all.

 

 

[darren1971]

21 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

It's an 'decent read' of one poor woman's horrendous experience at Heathrow immigration over four years ago.

 

The OP's perceived beef is with the visa application process (see his other posts) and this story does not have anything to do with visa applications or processing as she had a visa.

 

She may not be the only person to have suffered so at UK immigration, probably isn't; but the fact remains that millions of people have passed through immigration at Heathrow, and all other UK ports of entry, both before and since without encountering any problems at all.

 

 

Still you continue with you belief that the immigration system is fine and nobody should complain, the evidence disagrees with you and we're not talking about single cases. You are of course entitled to your opinion.

 

 

[darren1971]

4 hours ago, owl sees all said:

Marco's thread on sex for the over 40s is still going strong after 4 years. It's even interesting or it's not. This new posting is a decent read.

 

7by7 has now put a time limit on what is interesting or relevant....

[darren1971]

On 9/3/2018 at 3:26 AM, thonglorjimmy said:

Where does 7by7 say he doesn't like it?
He says that it was appalling treatment, and I agree, but totally out of context with regard to the purpose of this forum, where people give a considerable amount of time passing on their advice and experience regarding the visa application process, which most people are grateful to receive, whilst others have their own agenda.
Reading through some of the posts on here you seem to have been the recipient of a good deal of guidance and advice, but you now seem to be trawling through old and irrelevent blogs to support your blinkered views.
This lady was issued with a visa on appeal, her gripe was about the treatment she received at the UK Border and her detention.

Did we not have a debate in Parliament 2 weeks ago... Is it not possible that 7by7 is the one with the blinkered view.

 

I have received some good advice on here and some bad advice and the forum is called 'UK visas and immigration' so the post is relevant.

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, darren1971 said:

Still you continue with you belief that the immigration system is fine and nobody should complain, the evidence disagrees with you and we're not talking about single cases. You are of course entitled to your opinion.

 

 

Looks like me that he is saying that there are no problems for the large majority of people I don't see him saying its totally fine. Mistakes will be made and problems will arise anywhere where people work. There is no such thing as 100% perfection

[darren1971]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Looks like me that he is saying that there are no problems for the large majority of people I don't see him saying its totally fine. Mistakes will be made and problems will arise anywhere where people work. There is no such thing as 100% perfection

Well he is saying it is only me and single cases, there were 90,000 signatures on the petition to get visit visas changed

 

"

Helen Jones, the MP for Warrington North, said: “I am convinced there are serious problems with family visitor visas, both in the quality of the decision-making and the way it is communicated to applicants.

“People are caught on a merry-go-round of not knowing why they’ve been turned down, not knowing what information they have to provide, and often being turned down again for a different reason.

“The people we’ve spoken to understand that this is a difficult thing to decide, but they find the whole process they’re expected to go through is excruciating.

“We should not leave them feeling let down by the system, when all they want to do is see their family.”

"

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, darren1971 said:

Well he is saying it is only me and single cases, there were 90,000 signatures on the petition to get visit visas changed

 

"

Helen Jones, the MP for Warrington North, said: “I am convinced there are serious problems with family visitor visas, both in the quality of the decision-making and the way it is communicated to applicants.

“People are caught on a merry-go-round of not knowing why they’ve been turned down, not knowing what information they have to provide, and often being turned down again for a different reason.

“The people we’ve spoken to understand that this is a difficult thing to decide, but they find the whole process they’re expected to go through is excruciating.

“We should not leave them feeling let down by the system, when all they want to do is see their family.”

"

There is a difference between wanting to ha visa's rules changed and actual problems. I guess you would understand that too, and everyone who was ever rejected would of course sign such a petition even if they were rejected validly. So you cannot equate the number of signatures with the number of problems like what you are trying to do. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by robblok

[darren1971]

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

There is a difference between wanting to ha visa's rules changed and actual problems. I guess you would understand that too, and everyone who was ever rejected would of course sign such a petition even if they were rejected validly. So you cannot equate the number of signatures with the number of problems like what you are trying to do. 

Well if you want official figures they are available, but I am going to assume it wont change your opinion anyway. Most people with a refusal just re-apply and don't complain and that is exactly what they want you to do, that's why you can't appeal.

 

Here are the notes, see what our elected MP's have to say on the subject, you will find only one thinking there are no problems, the Tory scum Nokes.

 

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-07-09/debates/276864D0-6324-4C48-AEE6-AA007C9CB666/FamilyVisitorVisas

Edited September 4, 2018 by darren1971

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, darren1971 said:

Well if you want official figures they are available, but I am going to assume it wont change your opinion anyway. Most people with a refusal just re-apply and don't complain and that is exactly what they want you to do, that's why you can't appeal.

 

Here are the notes, see what our elected MP's have to say on the subject, you will find only one thinking there are no problems, the Tory scum Nokes.

 

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-07-09/debates/276864D0-6324-4C48-AEE6-AA007C9CB666/FamilyVisitorVisas

So do give me the official figures.. and there is of course a difference between complaints and valid complaints. So are there figures on how many complaints are actually seen as justified ?

 

You were making it out like 90.000 valid complaints, i am quite sure that the number of valid complaints is much lower. Id love to see numbers about that. Plus the number of people applying then you can put things in a percentage. I always expect that there will be mistakes made. I am not sure what kind of job you do but I make mistakes in mine (unfortunately) are you without mistakes ?

 

I been through this process in the Netherlands, never a fun thing to do  even back then. Nobody likes stuff like immigration because your at the mercy of someone else and usually can't see your loved one in that time. But rules have to be enforced because open borders would mean too many undesirables would get in. Most people think there are too many already. 

[Jip99]

2 hours ago, darren1971 said:

Still you continue with you belief that the immigration system is fine and nobody should complain, the evidence disagrees with you and we're not talking about single cases. You are of course entitled to your opinion.

 

 

 

 

Darren, mate, you are starting to sound like Maradona 10......  let it drop, there are far more successful cases than horror stories.

 

 

You are not going to improve an imperfect system by moaning all the time - or criticising respected members who have provided valuable information over many years.

[darren1971]

27 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Darren, mate, you are starting to sound like Maradona 10......  let it drop, there are far more successful cases than horror stories.

 

 

You are not going to improve an imperfect system by moaning all the time - or criticising respected members who have provided valuable information over many years.

I appreciate your opinion, but how do you improve an imperfect system, doing nothing?

 

For a long time I thought it was just an imperfect system but as I dig deeper I start to suspect that the system is in fact perfect for a certain agenda. 

 

I myself have had more applications approved than refused and have received some good advice on this forum. I have also been labelled a liar and a criminal by 'respected' members. So if people don't like my posts or disagree with them then they are free to not read them.

 

What is fact though is that all areas of the current immigration policy have received widespread criticism and there is a lot of fact based evidence to suggest there are real important problems with the system. If nobody moans I can not see it getting any better, so I am happy to continue regardless of the outcome of my own (my partners) personal applications.

[darren1971]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

So do give me the official figures.. and there is of course a difference between complaints and valid complaints. So are there figures on how many complaints are actually seen as justified ?

 

You were making it out like 90.000 valid complaints, i am quite sure that the number of valid complaints is much lower. Id love to see numbers about that. Plus the number of people applying then you can put things in a percentage. I always expect that there will be mistakes made. I am not sure what kind of job you do but I make mistakes in mine (unfortunately) are you without mistakes ?

 

I been through this process in the Netherlands, never a fun thing to do  even back then. Nobody likes stuff like immigration because your at the mercy of someone else and usually can't see your loved one in that time. But rules have to be enforced because open borders would mean too many undesirables would get in. Most people think there are too many already. 

I agree we need law that is fair and easy to understand, we can't just have an open door policy, I think our current PM labels her policy "A hostile environment" - I'm not sure that is any better.

 

Here is an official home office figure: 97% of visitors to the uk with valid visit visas returned home prior to the visa expiring. There is a widely held belief that people want to be illegal immigrants scratching around for low paid jobs - the facts don't really back this up but it is the message we are given. The overwhelming majority of visitors want to return home and the overwhelming majority that want to stay permanently want to do so legally.

[darren1971]

 

INDEPENDENT REVIEW OF HOME OFFICE IMMIGRATION POLICY AND PRACTICE

• Session: 2017-19
• Date tabled: 19.04.2018
• Primary sponsor: Lucas, Caroline
• Sponsors: 
  • Lammy, David
  •  
  • McDonald, Stuart
  •  
  • Moran, Layla
  •  
  • Saville Roberts, Liz
  •  
  • Reynolds, Emma

That this House notes the Home Office's long track record of delay, maladministration and poor quality decision-making while implementing increasingly harsh anti-immigrant policies; deplores the cruel and grossly unfair treatment of Commonwealth citizens legally resident in the UK, including denial of NHS health care, dismissal from employment, arbitrary detention under Immigration Act powers, threat of removal from the UK and destitution; believes that such mistreatment is a direct result of deliberate policies, and in particular the then Home Secretary's creation of a hostile environment under the Immigration Act 2014, which places an unreasonable onus on individuals to produce often long lost evidence of residence; deeply regrets the failure of the then Home Secretary to act upon policy recommendations set out in the October 2014 Legal Action Group report Chasing Status, which included establishing a specialist unit within the Home Office to deal with Windrush Generation cases; commends the work of the Joint Council for the Welfare of Immigrants, Praxis Community Projects, the Refugee and Migrant Centre and others in supporting individuals stripped of their legal rights; welcomes the current Home Secretary's belated acknowledgement that the Home Office has become too concerned with policy and strategy and sometimes loses sight of the individual; and calls on the Government to establish an independent commission to review Home Office policies and practice, their impact on black and minority ethnic communities and how they might be reformed to improve fairness and efficiency.

 

 

[rasg]

7 hours ago, darren1971 said:

I appreciate your opinion, but how do you improve an imperfect system, doing nothing?

 

For a long time I thought it was just an imperfect system but as I dig deeper I start to suspect that the system is in fact perfect for a certain agenda. 

 

I myself have had more applications approved than refused and have received some good advice on this forum. I have also been labelled a liar and a criminal by 'respected' members. So if people don't like my posts or disagree with them then they are free to not read them.

 

What is fact though is that all areas of the current immigration policy have received widespread criticism and there is a lot of fact based evidence to suggest there are real important problems with the system. If nobody moans I can not see it getting any better, so I am happy to continue regardless of the outcome of my own (my partners) personal applications.

 

Do you really think you can change the system by banging on and on, on a Thai forum? If you want to change things get on to the people that matter.

 

If you had written to Sajid Javid and the Home Office a few weeks ago, at least somebody may have listened to you. They might not have done anything, but they would have read your email. Or not.

 

Here is what you said elsewhere regarding the language test a few weeks ago.

 

"No point in blaming a good system I agree, no point in blaming any system makes no sense." (7th August)

 

You are flogging a dead horse...

[7by7]

22 hours ago, darren1971 said:

Well if you want official figures they are available,

 Yes; official figures are available. 

 

As has been pointed out to you on at least two previous occasions, they do not show what you want people to believe they show.

 

In general and even more so for Thailand where issue rates for all categories of UK visa are consistently above 90%; even higher for visit visas.

 

Here are those figures again: 

• Summary of latest statistics
• the detailed figures.

The motion you have quoted in your last post is a response to the Windrush scandal; nothing to do with the current visa regime.

 

I would agree, though, that the current settlement rules are unnecessary harsh; especially the financial requirement. Indeed, I have been arguing such and protesting against them ever since the rules were changed in July 2012; before that in fact when those changes were first announced!

 

What have you been doing about it over the last 6 years?

 

But those rules were introduced by the government; not the officials who have to work within the system and whose discretion was almost entirely removed by the rule changes.

 

Blame the government and then Home Secretary, Theresa May, for that.

 

I am not saying that the officials are entirely blameless; of course not. I have said before, and will say again, they are human, they make mistakes. But nearly 20 years of experience and talking to visa applicants, successful and unsuccessful, both personally and via boards such as this has shown me that there are basically three reasons for a refusal.

 

1) The applicant qualified for the visa applied for, but failed to show that they did.

 

Either because they did not submit the correct, required documents, or they did submit them but along with many other, unnecessary documents. ECOs have only a few minutes to look at an application. If they have to wade through a pile of unnecessary documents it is easy to miss what they actually need to see.

 

2) The ECO made an error.

 

They are human. Errors shouldn't occur and can be devastating to those affected. The removal of appeal rights by the government may or may not have made ECOs less diligent. The archived Free Movement article you posted elsewhere showed that the inspectors found that in some posts the unreasonable refusals had increased since the government removed appeal rights, whereas in others there were none at all.

Quote

Overall, as many as 14% of decisions were considered unreasonable from Dhaka and Kingston but New Delhi and Manila come out very well with 0% of decisions judged unreasonable overall.

As Thailand was not included in the inspection, we have no way of knowing where it fit into that; nor what the situation is today.

 

3) The applicant simply did not qualify for the visa applied for.

 

Usually they are a genuine applicant who simply does not qualify, but sometimes they are trying to enter the UK for a purpose not allowed in the rules; working as a visitor for example.

 

Of course, as already said; the system is not perfect. Those who should be refused do sometimes get a visa.

 

 

 

[darren1971]

On 9/4/2018 at 8:07 PM, rasg said:

 

Do you really think you can change the system by banging on and on, on a Thai forum? If you want to change things get on to the people that matter.

 

If you had written to Sajid Javid and the Home Office a few weeks ago, at least somebody may have listened to you. They might not have done anything, but they would have read your email. Or not.

 

Here is what you said elsewhere regarding the language test a few weeks ago.

 

"No point in blaming a good system I agree, no point in blaming any system makes no sense." (7th August)

 

You are flogging a dead horse...

I have done something about it, I have signed the new petition which is about all I can do for now. Again your presumptions are wrong, do you ever stop to question your beliefs or are you just confident you know everything?

 

 

 

[rasg]

That's wonderful. At least you have done something positive.

 

Not my beliefs. Simply what I have learned when I invited my girlfriend to visit me in the UK back in 2015.

 

Did Ket get the latest visit visa application?