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Russia says a military aircraft vanishes near Syria during Israeli, French strikes

By Christian Lowe and Phil Stewart

 

MOSCOW/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Russia's defence ministry said early on Tuesday that one if its military aircraft with 14 people on board disappeared from radar screens over Syria at the same time that Israeli and French forces were mounting aerial attacks on targets in Syria.

 

A U.S. official said Washington believed the aircraft, which is an Il-20 turbo-prop plane used for electronic reconnaissance, was inadvertently shot down by anti-aircraft artillery operated by Moscow's ally, the Syrian government.

 

Around the time the plane disappeared, the Syrian coastal city of Latakia -- near a Russian airbase to which the Il-20 was returning -- came under attack from "enemy missiles", and missile defence batteries responded,Syrian state media reported.

 

The defence ministry in Moscow said the aircraft was returning to the Russian-run Hmeymim airbase in Latakia province when, at about 11:00 p.m. Moscow time (20:00 GMT) on Monday, it disappeared from radar screens.

 

The plane was over the Mediterranean Sea about 35 km (20 miles) from the Syrian coastline, Russia's TASS news agency quoted the ministry as saying in a statement.

 

"The trace of the Il-20 on flight control radars disappeared during an attack by four Israeli F-16 jets on Syrian facilities in Latakia province," the statement was quoted as saying.

 

"At the same time Russian air control radar systems detected rocket launches from the French frigate Auvergne which was located in that region."

 

The fate of the 14 people on board the missing plane is unknown, and a rescue operation has been organised out of the Hmeymim base, the ministry said.

 

Russia's military operation in Syria, which began in late 2015, has turned the tide of the conflict in favour of Moscow's ally, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, in his fight against rebels.

 

But it has come at a cost to Russia.

 

In December 2016, a Russian plane carrying dozens of Red Army choir singers, dancers and musicians crashed into the Black Sea on the way to Syria, killing all 92 people on board.

 

In March this year, a Russian military transport plane crashed when coming in to land at the Hmeymim base, killing all 39 people on board.

 

Multiple countries have military operations underway around Syria, with forces on the ground or launching strikes from the air or from ships in the Mediterranean.

 

In some cases, those countries are backing opposing sides in the Syrian conflict.

 

Hotlines are in place for those countries to share operational information on their deployments, but diplomats and military planners say there is still a high risk of one state inadvertently striking another country's forces.

 

(Reporting by Christian Lowe in MOSCOW, Phil Stewart in WASHINGTON and Nayera Abdallah in CAIRO; Writing by Christian Lowe; Editing by Mike Collett-White)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-09-18

[geriatrickid]

The Russians need to train their Syrian pals to differentiate between a slow moving turbo prop and a fast moving  F-16.

 

Interesting to see that the French seem to have co-ordinated with Israel in the operation. Very interesting.  Coming at the same time Iran is accusing Russia of poaching oil market share.

[ezzra]

The whole zone there is one giant shooting gallery where rockets, missiles and heavy caliber AA guns lighting up the skies every night, so no wonder those cockeyed Syrian gunners mistook a friendly russian aircraft to an enemy one... 

[pegman]

Bibi better be damn sure he has better pee-pee tapes than Vlad.

[canopus1969]

A U.S. official said Washington believed the aircraft, which is an Il-20 turbo-prop plane used for electronic reconnaissance, was inadvertently shot down by anti-aircraft artillery operated by Moscow's ally, the Syrian government.

 

excellent news - keep it up chaps 

[Srikcir]

6 hours ago, ezzra said:

so no wonder those cockeyed Syrian gunners mistook a friendly russian aircraft to an enemy one..

That might be questionable.

The shoot down by Syria is a claim by a "US official." Note not by a US military official.

The Russian surveillance aircraft was returning from the Mediterranean (likely loitering offshore to detect enemy aircraft vectors) to its base near the city of Latakia that was under attack from "enemy missiles." It is as likely that Israel aircraft shot it down.

Given the permanent Russian occupation of the military facility there and frequent Russian warplanes stationed there, I'd expect the Russians would have transponders to avoid friendly fire.

There's not enough confirmed information to know what the real story is.

[Morch]

8 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

The Russians need to train their Syrian pals to differentiate between a slow moving turbo prop and a fast moving  F-16.

 

Interesting to see that the French seem to have co-ordinated with Israel in the operation. Very interesting.  Coming at the same time Iran is accusing Russia of poaching oil market share.

 

It's actually even worse. The identification is supposed to be (at least initially) automated. Otherwise, such incidents would be more common. Whether this can be attributed to faulty operating, Israeli countermeasures or system failure is a good question.

 

With regard to the French involvement, seems this angle was dropped. There was a French warship in the vicinity, but doesn't seem like they were actually involved. On the other hand there are reports that the attack was carried by Israel's navy, rather than air-force. I don't think France would have risked something of the sort.

[Morch]

7 hours ago, ezzra said:

The whole zone there is one giant shooting gallery where rockets, missiles and heavy caliber AA guns lighting up the skies every night, so no wonder those cockeyed Syrian gunners mistook a friendly russian aircraft to an enemy one... 

 

I think you're mixing different parts of Syria. And air-defense moved up a ways since WW1.

[Morch]

52 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

That might be questionable.

The shoot down by Syria is a claim by a "US official." Note not by a US military official.

The Russian surveillance aircraft was returning from the Mediterranean (likely loitering offshore to detect enemy aircraft vectors) to its base near the city of Latakia that was under attack from "enemy missiles." It is as likely that Israel aircraft shot it down.

Given the permanent Russian occupation of the military facility there and frequent Russian warplanes stationed there, I'd expect the Russians would have transponders to avoid friendly fire.

There's not enough confirmed information to know what the real story is.

 

As far as I'm aware, the Russian statements confirmed the airplane was intercepted by Syrian air-defenses. Apparently, their main complaint is that the advance warning supplied by Israel was too short, resulting in the airplane not having enough time to return to base or clear away.

 

As far as Russia goes (at least following official statements), Israel is responsible, though. And Russia "reserves the right to respond" etc. This could mean anything from trying to curb Israel's freedom to operate in Syrian air-space, a "mysterious" cyber attack, or supplying the Assad regime with more advanced systems. The Israeli government would have to work hard in order to avert serious consequences.

 

Other than the loss of life, I think the Russian are pissed over the de-facto coordination with Israel being blatantly exposed. Not going to play well within the context of relations with Syria and Iran.

[Morch]

And seems like things are being sorted.....

 

Putin: Israel Didn't Down Russian Aircraft Deliberately During Syria Strike

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/russian-military-aircraft-believed-to-be-shot-down-by-syria-defenses-1.6489773

Edited September 18, 2018 by Morch

[sanemax]

2 hours ago, Srikcir said:

The Russian surveillance aircraft was returning from the Mediterranean (likely loitering offshore to detect enemy aircraft vectors) to its base near the city of Latakia that was under attack from "enemy missiles." It is as likely that Israel aircraft shot it down.

It sounds like the Russian aircraft was returning to bass and the Israeli warplanes "hid" behind the Russian bomber to carry out a raid  , Syria fired some surface to air missiles trying to get the Israelis and the rockets downed the Russian bomber

[Trouble]

What the West and Israel don't seem to understand is that in the end neither Russia or Iran will stop supporting Syria.  Assad will regain total control of Syria. The venture in Syria by the West in supporting rebels has been a total disaster, led to mass migration and many more casualties that would have occurred had the West kept out.  However the possibility of toppling Assad was just too much temptation even though one would have thought that lessons learned from Iraq and Libya would told the West otherwise.  

[The manic]

6 hours ago, Srikcir said:

That might be questionable.

The shoot down by Syria is a claim by a "US official." Note not by a US military official.

The Russian surveillance aircraft was returning from the Mediterranean (likely loitering offshore to detect enemy aircraft vectors) to its base near the city of Latakia that was under attack from "enemy missiles." It is as likely that Israel aircraft shot it down.

Given the permanent Russian occupation of the military facility there and frequent Russian warplanes stationed there, I'd expect the Russians would have transponders to avoid friendly fire.

There's not enough confirmed information to know what the real story is.

Rubbish. It has been confirmed by all parties involved that the Syrians shot the Russian aircraft down. Even Putin has said so. The Israelis were busy bombing Syrian targets. Great stuff!

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, Trouble said:

What the West and Israel don't seem to understand is that in the end neither Russia or Iran will stop supporting Syria.

Israel does indeed understand that Iran is trying to get a political and military influence in Syria and Israel will do everything they can to stop them doing so

[Morch]

8 hours ago, Trouble said:

What the West and Israel don't seem to understand is that in the end neither Russia or Iran will stop supporting Syria.  Assad will regain total control of Syria. The venture in Syria by the West in supporting rebels has been a total disaster, led to mass migration and many more casualties that would have occurred had the West kept out.  However the possibility of toppling Assad was just too much temptation even though one would have thought that lessons learned from Iraq and Libya would told the West otherwise.  

 

What you don't seem to understand is that "the West" doesn't expect Russia to stop supporting Assad. Don't think such views were aired or that they are common. Rather the opposite. As for Iran, the issue is not so much about expectations they will withdraw support, but rather as to the what comes under this label.

 

Your "account" of causality and imagined probable alternative consequences is neither supported by a whole lot, but does a good job of minimizing Assad's regime's and Russia's accountability on this front.

[metisdead]

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