The good old "losing face" debate

[marcusarelus]

34 minutes ago, seancbk said:

 

 

Good example, although why did you feel the need to cause them so much loss of face?   

It started off slow.  I was a nice guy.  The return policy of the manufacturer was different than the distributor.  They should have fought it out not me. 

 

The corporate type in Bangkok told me to mail the product to Bangkok and they would fix it or replace it. 

 

I said, "No, what you are going to do is give me a new one from this store, I can see them hanging right over there." 

 

I told him I would have the President of the company who manufactured the item call the President of your company and I am sure they will inform you of their decision. 

 

I got home and told my wife.  She said, no way you get a new one!  You don't understand Thailand. ????

 

Then I started writing and emailing.  The President, Vice President, Director of Marketing and so on.  I'm retired and have the time to do things like this.  Then I started calling. 

 

It took about 3 days and then the floodgates of middle management opened up.  The bosses had been riled.  I felt like Clint Eastwood and someone had been laughing at my mule. 

 

I got a number of calls from middle managers from both companies asking me for names and times I had spoken to the people involved (I wrote down all the names and phone numbers).  Then I got calls of people checking to see if the other people had called me. 

 

Then silently with an air of mystery I started for the door.  My wife asked where I was going.  "To the mall to pick up that item, new and in a box that I told you last week I would get." ????  She said I was lucky.  I replied, "Proper planning prevents piss poor performance."

Edited September 26, 2018 by marcusarelus

[Farangwithaplan]

5 hours ago, hellohello123 said:

im not being argumentative for the sake of it, but lets get some perpsective,

 

as you say, "once they go silent, you have lost"

 

 

I didn't think you were being argumentative. I believe when you 'lose' a local you need to work with to achieve the outcome you need you must, generally speaking, negotiate with them if you want to be successful. If you 'lose' to a Thai who has lost face, negotiation often shuts down.

 

If the person has a manager, I think you will find unless it is a serious serious infringement, the employee will be spoken to in general terms, but they would not lose their job if it was a position that couldn't be replaced by the next person who walked through the door.

 

The person in question may have told you and their boss they are over it, but it is highly likely they will not be and your future negotiations, however menial, will be met with apathy.

 

I feel it is just not worth it the issue. In my line of work I need to find middle ground on a daily basis. I just do the same in my everyday life.

 

[5633572526]

21 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Anti depressant pill usage in the USA 130 per 1000 people.  Australia 96 per 1000.  Thailand 3 per 1000. 

http://time.com/4900248/antidepressants-depression-more-common/

 

Western countries save face by medicating and not facing the problems. 

 

In America saving face is, "don't rock the boat, don't make waves."  And the reason so many people have been recently fired and the Me too movement.  The Catholic church trying to save face by ignoring the Priest Abuse crisis.  The FBI trying to save face by ignoring J Edgar wore dresses.  America as a whole is trying to save face by saying, "not my President."

 

The whole Democratic party is trying to save face after picking Hillary to run.  Read, "The Grim Politics of Saving Face."

Deny. Deflect. Double down. These have become the watchwords of the modern politician who is trying to save face after so many wrong decisions. 

 

You hear saving face every other word on America's news networks.  The Pope is trying to save face.  The Brexiteers are trying to save face, Bill Cosby is trying to save face.  The Supreme court nominee is trying to save face after 3 women accuse him or sex crimes.  

 

I came to Thailand to avoid all the Western idiots trying to save face.  It's better here.  Everybody is honest about saving face.  In the West they think they have you fooled and in your case they succeeded. 

 

 

One of the less educated Thai apologists heard from. 

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, 5633572526 said:

One of the less educated Thai apologists heard from. 

You wrote, "In a more affluent country you learn from your mistakes and move forward."  That is so much Western propaganda it is laughable.

 

If you want to see a great example of America's leaders trying to save face still even after 20 years check out this recent NBC interview.  Especially note when the NBC host asks him if he apologized 4:32 in the clip. 

 

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/06/04/clinton_on_lewinsky_scandal_i_did_the_right_thing_nobody_believes_i_got_out_of_that_for_free.html?mobile_redirect=true

 

All the man had to do was say he was sorry.  Admit he made a mistake and move forward but we are still watching him try and save face by explaining it 20 years later. 

 

These guys never stop trying to save face and apologize.  The only thing to do is put them in jail like Bill Cosby.