Ford ordered to pay Bt23 million to 296 owners of faulty vehicles

[dallen52]

20 hours ago, zaphod reborn said:

I worked directly for Ford, and know the indemnification agreements with the Thai dealerships.  Most of the issues raised in the litigation related to poor warranty service.  Believe what you want about the litigation, but I had direct involvement.  BTW, most of the environmental claims against mining companies, involve foreign companies, but have not been filed.  The class actions for environmental claims that have been filed are against recyclers, waste disposal companies and refineries, all Thai-owned.

So what are the indemnity agreements in place?

Apart from 3 years warranty. 

This transmission  problem re wrote the global policy on extended warranties.

 

My experience still stands that the technical levels of expertise and support are not in place in Thailand. 

They talk the talk, but can't walk the walk.

Pure guess work.

Try this, try that, your cost of course.

Need car three days.

Becomes five days.

No loan car available. 

 

Customer service is agency staff with little tech savvy. 

Expensive replacement parts compared to other countries. 

[zaphod reborn]

2 hours ago, dallen52 said:

So what are the indemnity agreements in place?

Apart from 3 years warranty. 

This transmission  problem re wrote the global policy on extended warranties.

 

My experience still stands that the technical levels of expertise and support are not in place in Thailand. 

They talk the talk, but can't walk the walk.

Pure guess work.

Try this, try that, your cost of course.

Need car three days.

Becomes five days.

No loan car available. 

 

Customer service is agency staff with little tech savvy. 

Expensive replacement parts compared to other countries. 

Indenification has nothing to do with service warranties.  Products liability claims from design and manufacturing defects were indemnified by Ford, but warranty service issues were not.  I don't think you understand the underlying claims.  Ford designed a powershift that gave the performance of manual transmission but ease of use of an automatic transmission which employed a double clutch.  The transmission required frequent maintenance and software adjustment.  Failure to do so resulted in stall outs, lurching, over-revving, and slippage.  So, you're correct about poorly trained local service staff, but replacement parts were not an issue.

[weegee]

9 hours ago, dallen52 said:

Correct.

The save Australia plan was to build 40,000 fiesta focus types in Australia. 

The Ford manufacturing Thailand was set up instead..

AAT at Rayong also builds plus the Ranger Mazda BT50. Everest.

Ford Thailand base Labour rate 60 baht hour.

Ford India rate $3.50 hour.

Ford China rate $5 hour.

Ford Australia when closing $28 per hour.

 

Plus all your other costs.

 

All materials and parts come from a global system so the killer is the Labour. 

Thanks for the info....Now!...Where is the Global system centered ...China?

[Huayrat]

How is 20k a victory to consumers?? The car has a Gearbox which is a big big problem.. So no victory for customers.. victory for Ford..

[djayz]

On 9/22/2018 at 9:05 AM, connda said:

2.48 M THB each.  Happy consumer.  Really, really happy lawyers.

How did you come up with that number?

 

The 296 plaintiffs will receive compensations worth Bt15,000 to Bt240,000 for a total amount of Bt23 million, plus interest at the rate of 7.5 per annum from the lawsuit date.

 

[mogandave]

How did you come up with that number?
 
The 296 plaintiffs will receive compensations worth Bt15,000 to Bt240,000 for a total amount of Bt23 million, plus interest at the rate of 7.5 per annum from the lawsuit date.
 

He missed a few zeros.

[S0S]

Have a Ford Fiesta bought under the 100,000 excise kickback scheme in mid 2013.
Within the first month, complained strongly that the gear change was acting strange.
They had me test drive another brand new one that had the same problem.
Said it was just the way the gear was, so nothing wrong. Wasn't much I could no.

 

Though all low speed gear changes were jerky with a loss of power ( more so on an uphill incline), was lucky to never faced any “terrible” problems.

 

Late last year, got a letter from the Ford dealer saying they would replace the gear/transmission free of charge if there was any problem.

 

Early this year, took the car back and got the gear/transmission "changed" for free along with an additional 7 year warranty in case same problem reoccurs, valid till 2025. The "written off" cost shown on the invoice was for about B17,000.

 

The problem seemed solved for about 6 months, but it's slowly restarting.

 

Perhaps time soon for that "required frequent maintenance and software adjustment" !!!

[dallen52]

On 9/23/2018 at 11:44 AM, zaphod reborn said:

Indenification has nothing to do with service warranties.  Products liability claims from design and manufacturing defects were indemnified by Ford, but warranty service issues were not.  I don't think you understand the underlying claims.  Ford designed a powershift that gave the performance of manual transmission but ease of use of an automatic transmission which employed a double clutch.  The transmission required frequent maintenance and software adjustment.  Failure to do so resulted in stall outs, lurching, over-revving, and slippage.  So, you're correct about poorly trained local service staff, but replacement parts were not an issue.

Sorry I'm missing something.?

You said you worked on the indemnification with the Ford dealerships. 

Product liability is certainly covered by the motor company. 

Cost is factored in the sale price of every vehicle. 

 

The supplier of the parts is also liable to the possibility of a recall action. 

Ford avoided the bullet on this issue worldwide. 

The transmission is a joint venture product between Ford and Gertrag.

So quite rightly the onus falls back on Ford.

Warranty service issues are certainly covered, and a specific number was set up to direct people to a person to talk with.

Be it that they really know squat about it. 

Apart for how to apologize. 

 

The dealer service staff should have access to service operations consultants, SOC,s.

Other countries have. 

They have to get an approval for each repair undertaken, which can be repeated for the life of the extended warranties applied. 

 

Regard the parts.

Availability is ok, price is excessive in Thailand compared to other countries. 

But that's a Ford global price issue. 

 

Speaking personally I can testify that this 6 speed transmission clutch combination is/can be almost leathal if failure or malfunction starts.

Mine just decided that it would not go. 4 months ago. 

Middle of Bangkok Express way.

No drive. No nothing. 11pm.

Multiple lights displayed on the dashboard. 

Transmission overheating kicks in and the vehicle is immobilized for 15 minutes. Very embarrassing. 

Took me 90 minutes to get off the elevated expressway. 

Did this several times before finally being towed to EK Silom.

Six days later it was ok to go they say.

Complete new clutch and seals.

This was a known failure item. 

Seals leaking and clutch burning and slipping. 

4 days later it totally died in a multi story carpark. 

TCM had lost its memory. 

Towed again to a Ford dealership. 

New TCM and a reprogrammed required. 

This is a Continental part with know issues.

It's up to version 7 and new software.

It has been back two more times and the dealerships have had me sit in and drive other cars to compare the noise and judder problems. 

Saying many are like this, and they cannot do any better, or more to fix it.

Even suggesting a new selection fork assembly in the clutch. 

Pure guesswork. 19,000 baht .

It might help they said, plus a new battery. 

Absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

One guy had this problem at day one when he purchased a brand new car. 

And was told it was normal. 

 

Every time it gets a little sick.

I take to Ford and they reprogramme the TCM and simulated touch and contact points for the clutch action , as if it was being driven. 

Then it has to go through the adaptive learning system again for 1500 km.

 

A few tricks I've learned like resetting the transmission and how to strip the clutch memory of slow speed judder.

But its certainly not right.

And Ford customer service has stopped calling me back.

 

It's a great drive on open roads. 

Just crap in low speed around the sois and judder like hell still.

It sounds like a selector shaft is rattling in the low speed range.

But that as pointed out will be my cost.

Couldn't possibly have been caused by the previous issues?

Or could it?

 

This action claim is a blessing for anyone who got on it. I didn't.

The action was started before I bought mine. 

I cant even sell it currently. 

The stigma is attached and the gear noise hasn't gone away..

I've spent almost 20,000 and lost the car for 16 days, plus I would say about 40,000 off sales value. 

If I can sell it.

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by dallen52

[dallen52]

On 9/23/2018 at 6:58 PM, weegee said:

Thanks for the info....Now!...Where is the Global system centered ...China?

For Asia pacific yes..

China, and India are the cetres of excellence as they call them.

China is joint venture with Changan. 

CFJV in Chonqing.

Plus other manufacture sites.

[Thian]

On 9/23/2018 at 4:18 AM, dallen52 said:

My experience still stands that the technical levels of expertise and support are not in place in Thailand. 

Well the Japanese cars made in Thailand are all good it seems....i wonder how they do it, i guess they keep the quality control in japanese hands.