Northeast faces drought, as dam levels low

[billd766]

15 hours ago, Dap said:

I understand and agree. My post was a classic case of moth before brain. Just too bad the powers that be haven't figured a way to funnel some of that "pocket cash" into a way to divert the excess northern waters over to Issan. ????

 

I wrote in another similar post a while ago and threw out some figures of the number of km of 2 metre concrete pipes would be needed, the amount of spoil dug up pumping stations, power stations to supply them etc and it was enormous. and that was only north to south. East to west was less because Thailand is long and thin.

 

Then you would need compulsory purchase orders, EIA checks and I think it would cost the entire budget for 2 or 3 years without (hollow laugh) maintenance costs.

[CGW]

23 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Ubonrat is not a big reservoir, I'd be more concerned if Lam Pao or similar.

Udonrat may not be one of the biggest in the country but it is the largest in the North east, it also produces a far amount of electricity - that isn't going to continue for long unless there is a substantial storm over the area.

[simoh1490]

5 minutes ago, CGW said:

Udonrat may not be one of the biggest in the country but it is the largest in the North east, it also produces a far amount of electricity - that isn't going to continue for long unless there is a substantial storm over the area.

For some reason, I can't get to the list of dams right now (I'm in the UK) but as memory serves, Udonrat is around 450 MCM making it the third or fourth largest in the NE, the largest on the list is substantially larger in the thousands of MCM.

[CGW]

3 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

For some reason, I can't get to the list of dams right now (I'm in the UK) but as memory serves, Udonrat is around 450 MCM making it the third or fourth largest in the NE, the largest on the list is substantially larger in the thousands of MCM.

Ye off little faith ???? 

 

 

[billd766]

7 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

For some reason, I can't get to the list of dams right now (I'm in the UK) but as memory serves, Udonrat is around 450 MCM making it the third or fourth largest in the NE, the largest on the list is substantially larger in the thousands of MCM.

 

Ask and ye shall be rewarded.

 

http://www.thaiwater.net/DATA/REPORT/php/rid_dam_1.php?lang=en

 

http://www.thaiwater.net/DATA/REPORT/php/show_sm_dam.php?lang=en

 

[Ossy]

The Royal Irrigation Department chart pretty well illustrates the yawning gap between (A) a department in control and (B) the complete opposite. Top-right corner gives a map, headed 'This Year's Annual Precipitation Compared to Average'. At only 9mths thro' the year, they cannot give 'annual' figures for 'this year' but, more worryingly, they don't present previous average figures with which to compare this year's 'to date' values. Compared to average means compared to nothing as far as the RID's understanding of the basic terms, 'Annual' and 'Compared to Average' is concerned.

 

Yes, we know that this year has presented seasonal abnormality problems, with some regions under drought threat and others still like swimming pools, but Thailand will never get its water management challenges met unless there are people at the sharp end who understand the significance of such things as 'annual' and 'average'.

[simoh1490]

5 minutes ago, CGW said:

Ye off little faith ???? 

 

 

My apologies, I must have read the table incorrectly, I'll go outside and whip myself right now.

[kickstart]

Some management does need changing, I am in the central regen and we have the Passak dam on our doorstep back in July they opened some gates to let the water out .but the dam was only 50% full, now with the best part of the rainy season done it is now only 64% full.

They must have thought let the water go in July, something they have never done before, when the main rains come in September/October they will fill the dam up has it backfired on them,?

The problem is, and I would say same with a lot of other dams the water sauce comes a long way, in our case 150 km  away  in Petchaboon province ,no local water flows in to the dam ,you need to look at the water situation in the north not in the central region in our case .

Most of the water is used for agriculture, none is used for domestic use 4 years ago  in this area ,we had a big water shortage problem houses 10 -15 km from the dam where having water trucked in and pumped in to they local  water towers, for domestic use, it is the underground water supply that is the problem .

But they are doing a lot of work building earth walls trying to increase the capacity, of the dam.  

[Ossy]

36 minutes ago, Ossy said:

The Royal Irrigation Department chart pretty well illustrates the yawning gap between (A) a department in control and (B) the complete opposite. Top-right corner gives a map, headed 'This Year's Annual Precipitation Compared to Average'. At only 9mths thro' the year, they cannot give 'annual' figures for 'this year' but, more worryingly, they don't present previous average figures with which to compare this year's 'to date' values. Compared to average means compared to nothing as far as the RID's understanding of the basic terms, 'Annual' and 'Compared to Average' is concerned.

 

Yes, we know that this year has presented seasonal abnormality problems, with some regions under drought threat and others still like swimming pools, but Thailand will never get its water management challenges met unless there are people at the sharp end who understand the significance of such things as 'annual' and 'average'.

I'm apologising to myself, here, for pressing the submit button before I'd made the real point of my post, namely that the rainfall map, shown above, does not fulfil its task heading of comparing this year's rainfall with previous average values; it merely showing the rainfall across the country, this year. Clearly, some regions are wetter than others, but the whole point of the RID feature was to stress the difference between this year's weather and previous years. Are they capable of doing that simple task?

[robblok]

32 minutes ago, kickstart said:

Some management does need changing, I am in the central regen and we have the Passak dam on our doorstep back in July they opened some gates to let the water out .but the dam was only 50% full, now with the best part of the rainy season done it is now only 64% full.

They must have thought let the water go in July, something they have never done before, when the main rains come in September/October they will fill the dam up has it backfired on them,?

The problem is, and I would say same with a lot of other dams the water sauce comes a long way, in our case 150 km  away  in Petchaboon province ,no local water flows in to the dam ,you need to look at the water situation in the north not in the central region in our case .

Most of the water is used for agriculture, none is used for domestic use 4 years ago  in this area ,we had a big water shortage problem houses 10 -15 km from the dam where having water trucked in and pumped in to they local  water towers, for domestic use, it is the underground water supply that is the problem .

But they are doing a lot of work building earth walls trying to increase the capacity, of the dam.  

 

I wonder why farming gets preference over normal domestic use..  I mean first normal people then farmers I would say.. especially as they are not paying for the water.

[billd766]

50 minutes ago, Ossy said:

The Royal Irrigation Department chart pretty well illustrates the yawning gap between (A) a department in control and (B) the complete opposite. Top-right corner gives a map, headed 'This Year's Annual Precipitation Compared to Average'. At only 9mths thro' the year, they cannot give 'annual' figures for 'this year' but, more worryingly, they don't present previous average figures with which to compare this year's 'to date' values. Compared to average means compared to nothing as far as the RID's understanding of the basic terms, 'Annual' and 'Compared to Average' is concerned.

 

Yes, we know that this year has presented seasonal abnormality problems, with some regions under drought threat and others still like swimming pools, but Thailand will never get its water management challenges met unless there are people at the sharp end who understand the significance of such things as 'annual' and 'average'.

 

Unfortunately I can only offer 2018 and 2017 rainfall levels in Khampaeng Phet>. I did have them going back for years but they were on my hard drive that died.

 

Anyway to date from 01 January to 25 September 2018 KPP had 962.2 mm of rain.

In 2017 from 01 January to 25 September 201 KPP had 1,616.7 mm of rain.

 

My rain fed fishpond which last year was around 80% full is now about 50% full and 50% of that was this week.

 

If you click on this link you can get the stats in PDF from 2013 to 2016 (for some reason 2017 produces no report).

 

https://www.tmd.go.th/en/climate.php?FileID=5

 

An interesting look back and I have no doubt if anybody was that interested a wander around the internet may turn up more stuff.

[Ossy]

20 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

I wonder why farming gets preference over normal domestic use..  I mean first normal people then farmers I would say.. especially as they are not paying for the water.

What . . . and risk crop failure? I would think that a major crop failure in a largely agricultural country would soon cripple most, if not all of the country. No, sir, it must be farmers first, I'm afraid . . . and the beggars can be so wasteful, too ????

[robblok]

Just now, Ossy said:

What . . . and risk crop failure? I would think that a major crop failure in a largely agricultural country would soon cripple most, if not all of the country. No, sir, it must be farmers first, I'm afraid . . . and the beggars can be so wasteful, too ????

Crop failure.. rice is not selling for much.. it would only drive the price up so all in all nothing major. I believe in normal people before farmers. Its crazy that farmers use the water and normal people who pay for water cannot get it. (as that guy posted not the case where I live).

 

Crop failure would not be country wide.. just places where water is more scarce.

[Ossy]

8 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Unfortunately I can only offer 2018 and 2017 rainfall levels in Khampaeng Phet>. I did have them going back for years but they were on my hard drive that died.

 

Anyway to date from 01 January to 25 September 2018 KPP had 962.2 mm of rain.

In 2017 from 01 January to 25 September 201 KPP had 1,616.7 mm of rain.

 

My rain fed fishpond which last year was around 80% full is now about 50% full and 50% of that was this week.

 

If you click on this link you can get the stats in PDF from 2013 to 2016 (for some reason 2017 produces no report).

 

https://www.tmd.go.th/en/climate.php?FileID=5

 

An interesting look back and I have no doubt if anybody was that interested a wander around the internet may turn up more stuff.

Thanks, Billd766 . . . who needs Google when there's customised service like you around?

[billd766]

4 hours ago, Ossy said:

Thanks, Billd766 . . . who needs Google when there's customised service like you around?

 

Um did I forget to post my bill in the thread?

[SantiSuk]

When will people stop regarding the Northeast as one region for rainfall and news reporting thereon? Probably afflicts the weather men and planners too. I keep seeing comments like "the Northeast can expect heavy rains and flooding next week". Must have seen that several times in the last two months but rainfall in my part of Lower Isaan - Sisaket and (the southern part of) Ubon provinces has been at the lowest I have seen in my 10+ years here; the weather systems that usually sweep in from southern Laos and Cambodia have simply not happened and the action has been all in the northern part of the South China sea.

 

Without a big turnaround in that pattern in the next six weeks there is going to be big trouble ahead for large tracts of increasingly intensively farmed agricultural areas

[johng]

Those damned levels again !

[kickstart]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

 

I wonder why farming gets preference over normal domestic use..  I mean first normal people then farmers I would say.. especially as they are not paying for the water.

As I said the Passak dam is for agriculture use, it has a very small plant for producing hydroelectricity, and is it is supposed to help prevent flooding downstream in Ayutthaya, they so no way it can be used for domestic  consumption ,and if a farmer uses the water from the dam he has to pay for it, the water  has to pumped up into large water towers, to give the water some head, so  can flow in to the canal system ,that threads it way around our area .and the farmers pump water for they use from the canals 

When we last grew some maize it was 175 baht /rie for the cost of the water.

As I said all the domestic water supply is from underground aquifers, pumped up into water towers, that all villages have,it is the underground supplies that are the problem, some almost dry up in the dry season.