Thaksin-Prawit showdown just a taste of things to come

[webfact]

Thaksin-Prawit showdown just a taste of things to come

By The Nation

 

 

The verbal warfare being waged in full view of the world between Thaksin Shinawatra and Prawit Wongsuwan is disturbing. Even more worrying is that it’s only a taste of what’s to come. Pro-military and pro-Thaksin camps are furiously trading reports of the “war”, but none of them has pointed out the inconvenient truth, which is that we are looking at just the tip of the iceberg.
 

The whole episode exposes the ugly truth of Thai politics, where key appointments reek of lobbying and nepotism that override meritocracy and ignore the public interest. And where people in power demand gratitude and loyalty for something they were supposed to do anyway.

 

Former prime minister Thaksin tweeted that Deputy PM Prawit was no longer the man who had humbly “clung to my table and begged for the top Army post”. The media went into overdrive, which escalated to a frenzy when the former Army chief shot back that he wasn’t the one who had caused a national rift and that Thaksin should focus on his own failings. Missing from the coverage was any mention of the longstanding scourge of appointments based on nepotism, dubious connections and lobbying.

 

Prawit did indeed become Army commander-in-chief when Thaksin was prime minister. Only the two of them know for sure whether the general actually did “beg” for the top job and in what manner exactly. Thai Post ran an intriguing story suggesting that if the PM really did appoint someone chief of the armed forces simply because he pleaded for the job, then the real problem was the giver, not the recipient. “Thaksin exposes himself”, read the Thai Post headline for a report that effectively condemned the lobbying culture. 

 

This tradition of begging and granting favours is deep-rooted in Thai politics and gives rise to all sorts of evils. The lobbying practice spawns bribery, inefficiency, corrupt partnerships and catastrophic revenge vendettas. “Connections” are what matters, while knowledge and performance go underrated. Last but not least, lobbying turns relations between mainstream politicians and the Armed Forces wayward and destructive.

 

The Thaksin-Prawit showdown only serves to confirm that the prime minister ousted by soldiers was once the military’s good friend. It’s well-documented that Thaksin’s telecom empire took off largely thanks to his connections with the military when he was an ambitious businessman seeking to launch satellites.

 

Some of the men Thaksin allegedly owes a debt of gratitude include the coup-makers. So, anyone who thinks that the stand-off between the Shinawatras and the Thai military is rooted in ideological differences should think again.

 

In Thai politics, anybody can lobby anybody and “ideology” is often the last thing on their mind. A “champion of democracy”, as Thaksin is called in some corners, is no exception. “I am what I am thanks to my ‘big brother’,” said one senior police official in an infamous reference to Thaksin. Meanwhile, late Air Chief Marshal Somboon Rahong was once given a Bt10 million Daimler as a gift from the ousted prime minister.

 

What happened between Thaksin and Prawit is in the past, but the past is about to erupt in the present. A crucial Thai election is just months away, and with the stakes sky-high for everyone, we can expect toxic horse-trading no matter who wins and who loses.

 

For starters, whoever aspires to become prime minister will need the support of small parties in order to get the 376 parliamentary votes required. This means just about anyone, regardless of their qualifications, can jockey for powerful posts in exchange for pledging their support to a prime ministerial nominee.

 

Thailand has seen countless unqualified people take up the education portfolio, for example. One reason for that is the prime minister did not see the importance of education. Another reason was the PM needed to pacify disgruntled supporters who had missed out on “bigger” Cabinet positions, which went to those with greater bargaining power.

 

Such appointments – based on the lobbying culture or the “need” to repay favours – dragged down governments’ abilities to serve the public interest. A PM might have demanded a free hand in picking, say, the finance minister, but the whole governing apparatus was riddled with inefficient administrators all the same.

 

The media normally responds to Cabinet appointments with loud dismay, but nothing changes. Unless the givers and receivers start exposing one another, that is.

 

Society’s forgiving attitude has helped prolong this rottenness at the core of politics. Many of us are worrying too much about when the election will be held. The bigger concern is what kind of government we get after we have voted. 

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/opinion/30355211

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-09-26

[Kiwiken]

Food for thought. Lets hope the Thai people wake up

[Samui Bodoh]

Excellent editorial.

 

However, the two sides are not the same.

 

One was/is the Democratic choice of the Thai people, and one was foisted on them by use of force.

 

One was able to be removed at the ballot box, and one re-wrote the constitution to benefit itself.

 

One played by the rules, and one just cheated in the worst way imaginable.

 

I tend to agree with pretty much all the bad things people think and believe about Thaksin, but the Thai people had the means to fire him. The Thai people have not had the means to fire Prayut.

 

The two sides are not the same.

 

Not even close...

 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Kiwiken said:

Food for thought. Lets hope the Thai people wake up

I doubt it, its too ingrained.

 

It just shows how utter corrupt the military and the politicians are. It shows that they are all in it for the money and don't care about good governance as its about favors and stuff. Sad state of affairs. Does explain a lot of things though.

 

I do wonder who calls Thaksin a champion of democracy while he in his own words has said that democracy is not his goal and that he did not care who leads a country (democratic or not) as long as the country prospers. So maybe he is only a champion of democracy when it is useful to him. 

 

[Lungstib]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

This tradition of begging and granting favours is deep-rooted in Thai politics and gives rise to all sorts of evils. The lobbying practice spawns bribery, inefficiency, corrupt partnerships and catastrophic revenge vendettas.

 

That sounds like the country I have experienced over the last 30 years. A terrifically honest description of the problems besetting this country. The idea that 'ideology' has ever risen its head in this countries politics is so ridiculous as to be laughable.

[robblok]

20 minutes ago, Lungstib said:

 

That sounds like the country I have experienced over the last 30 years. A terrifically honest description of the problems besetting this country. The idea that 'ideology' has ever risen its head in this countries politics is so ridiculous as to be laughable.

Ideoligy means indeed nothing here.. its just a means to get to power. Thaksin was just real smart to tap into the north / north east and bind them to him. He uses them to get in power and that is it.  I have seen both Thaksin and the junta both bind themselves to criminals (Kayman Poh and others) just to get votes. 

 

In the end there are no good options at this time because all their leaders do the same thing.. and use anything to get in power.

 

People are asking why the Thai's don't rise up to kick the junta out.. they don't because they have seen the alternative is just more of the same the change it would bring is not enough to risk their skin. They know it us foreigners just don't. Last time the Thais rose.. their leader promised to be there but was the first to flee.. later YL promised to fight to the end and fled too. Many people are disappointed about this and see that they are just a tool to get in power. So they just won't risk their skin again.. they vote for them but that is it they won't risk anything more.  

[Esso49]

2 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

Food for thought. Lets hope the Thai people wake up

Well they have had since 1932 to wake up and so far there has been hardly been a blink of the eye. They are not going to wake up anytime soon and disturb their slumbers unless  all those able to vote have the same recurring nightmare during the same night.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Esso49 said:

Well they have had since 1932 to wake up and so far there has been hardly been a blink of the eye. They are not going to wake up anytime soon and disturb their slumbers unless  all those able to vote have the same recurring nightmare during the same night.

They wont wake up as the alternative is just not good enough. If the PTP is in power the same corruption the same incompetence will rule. Would you rise up just to replace one failing government with an other ?. I would only rise up if there was a good alternative with clear benefits over the other side. 

 

If they kicked the junta out there might be a bit more freedom of speech but other then that not much changes. The leaders will be as corrupt and incompetent because of the system described in this OP. That is not enough to risk life and limp.. especially if your leaders feel and betray you at the first sign of trouble to save their own skin.

 

Maybe just maybe future forward will bring change though it will be real hard to really change this system as its so ingrained. But the old parties and junta.. they won't bring change just other people stealing money nothing more nothing less. Maybe the populace is smarter then we give them credit for.

 

Besides people should study Maslov, freedom of expression and stuff like that is at the very top of the pyramid.. but in this country lower parts of the pyramid are not yet fulfilled so its not a priority.

 

I of course think that a democratic government is better then a junta.. but not by much in this country. Because its not a full functioning democracy as long as the system as described here exists. 

[Burma Bill]

A battle of colours - like the War of the Roses in Medieval England where it was RED versus WHITE but here in LOS it is RED versus YELLOW

[Eric Loh]

3 hours ago, Esso49 said:

Well they have had since 1932 to wake up and so far there has been hardly been a blink of the eye. They are not going to wake up anytime soon and disturb their slumbers unless  all those able to vote have the same recurring nightmare during the same night.

Every time they wake up only to be put back to slumber by the military. Poor education, ensure subservient culture, unequal development and when any sign of the people “waking”, stage a coup to maintain status quo and dominance. Works for the military and the elites since 1932. 

[Gandtee]

6 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

Food for thought. Lets hope the Thai people wake up

You ask too much.????

[Ossy]

Disturbing and worrying, maybe, but if it boils down to a battle of wits, there's a clear winner.

[sungod]

7 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

One played by the rules, and one just cheated in the worst way imaginable.

 

 

I understood all your points and cant disagree, this one above got me confused who you were talking about though.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Ossy said:

Disturbing and worrying, maybe, but if it boils down to a battle of wits, there's a clear winner.

I would prefer its mutual annihilation that they both take each-other out at the same time. What a happy time it would be for Thailand.  

[nikmar]

2 hours ago, Ossy said:

Disturbing and worrying, maybe, but if it boils down to a battle of wits, there's a clear winner.

 

He s clearly ready for battle.

 

[Enoon]

4 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Every time they wake up only to be put back to slumber by the military. Poor education, ensure subservient culture, unequal development and when any sign of the people “waking”, stage a coup to maintain status quo and dominance. Works for the military and the elites since 1932. 

 

Not much the population could do during the collaborationist period of WW2.

 

And then came the long golden age when a respected voice prevailed.

 

But what now for ************************************************

************************************************?

 

 

Edited September 26, 2018 by Enoon

[Rimmer]

A post with a heavily altered quote has been removed

[zzaa09]

17 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

Food for thought. Lets hope the Thai people wake up

On the vague assumptions that they've been/or presently of a comatose state?

 

I don't think so.

Much more aware and connected than most give credit for.

[yellowboat]

19 hours ago, webfact said:

ignore the public interest

Exploited is a better word.   As corrupt as the Shinawatras were, they did far more for the average Thai.

 

19 hours ago, webfact said:

It’s well-documented that Thaksin’s telecom empire took off largely thanks to his connections with the military when he was an ambitious businessman seeking to launch satellites.

Many businesses have been propelled by military contracts especially industries like aviation, fire arms, vehicles, so saying the military helped him is not that dramatic, given satellites have strategic importance.  Elon Musk gets a lot of government help.

Edited September 26, 2018 by yellowboat

[MartinBangkok]

15 hours ago, robblok said:

They wont wake up as the alternative is just not good enough. If the PTP is in power the same corruption the same incompetence will rule. Would you rise up just to replace one failing government with an other ?. I would only rise up if there was a good alternative with clear benefits over the other side. 

 

If they kicked the junta out there might be a bit more freedom of speech but other then that not much changes. The leaders will be as corrupt and incompetent because of the system described in this OP. That is not enough to risk life and limp.. especially if your leaders feel and betray you at the first sign of trouble to save their own skin.

 

Maybe just maybe future forward will bring change though it will be real hard to really change this system as its so ingrained. But the old parties and junta.. they won't bring change just other people stealing money nothing more nothing less. Maybe the populace is smarter then we give them credit for.

 

Besides people should study Maslov, freedom of expression and stuff like that is at the very top of the pyramid.. but in this country lower parts of the pyramid are not yet fulfilled so its not a priority.

 

I of course think that a democratic government is better then a junta.. but not by much in this country. Because its not a full functioning democracy as long as the system as described here exists. 

They won't wake up. Stand outside a Thai school (any) for a couple of hours, watch Thai TV or listen to Thai radio for a couple of hours. Or try telling a Thai that Thailand is not the center of the universe.

 

You cannot change anything that has been brainwashed.

[moe666]

17 hours ago, robblok said:

They wont wake up as the alternative is just not good enough. If the PTP is in power the same corruption the same incompetence will rule. Would you rise up just to replace one failing government with an other ?. I would only rise up if there was a good alternative with clear benefits over the other side. 

 

If they kicked the junta out there might be a bit more freedom of speech but other then that not much changes. The leaders will be as corrupt and incompetent because of the system described in this OP. That is not enough to risk life and limp.. especially if your leaders feel and betray you at the first sign of trouble to save their own skin.

 

Maybe just maybe future forward will bring change though it will be real hard to really change this system as its so ingrained. But the old parties and junta.. they won't bring change just other people stealing money nothing more nothing less. Maybe the populace is smarter then we give them credit for.

 

Besides people should study Maslov, freedom of expression and stuff like that is at the very top of the pyramid.. but in this country lower parts of the pyramid are not yet fulfilled so its not a priority.

 

I of course think that a democratic government is better then a junta.. but not by much in this country. Because its not a full functioning democracy as long as the system as described here exists. 

When the army preformed there coup aganist Thaksin I called my girl friend to check on her. I asked her what do you think will it get better, She says nothing change for me have to work every day to feed my babies. Guess what nothing changed for her.

[Thian]

13 minutes ago, moe666 said:

When the army preformed there coup aganist Thaksin I called my girl friend to check on her. I asked her what do you think will it get better, She says nothing change for me have to work every day to feed my babies. Guess what nothing changed for her.

What did she expect to happen? She thought the junta would give her a bunch of money every day so she could stay home and be mum?

[Ossy]

8 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

On the vague assumptions that they've been/or presently of a comatose state?

 

I don't think so.

Much more aware and connected than most give credit for.

You have to be joking, Z . . . at least out here in the sticks. If you're more city-aware, then I can understand your comment but, out here, they simply couldn't give a monkey's.

[Baerboxer]

On 9/26/2018 at 5:33 AM, Samui Bodoh said:

Excellent editorial.

 

However, the two sides are not the same.

 

One was/is the Democratic choice of the Thai people, and one was foisted on them by use of force.

 

One was able to be removed at the ballot box, and one re-wrote the constitution to benefit itself.

 

One played by the rules, and one just cheated in the worst way imaginable.

 

I tend to agree with pretty much all the bad things people think and believe about Thaksin, but the Thai people had the means to fire him. The Thai people have not had the means to fire Prayut.

 

The two sides are not the same.

 

Not even close...

 

 

Not sure who you think played by the rules. Thaksin owned parties never did, which led to their downfall time and time again. 

 

I don't really know if the Thai people could have ever voted him out. I suspect he'd have been one of those "leaders' that simply refused to accept any ballot result he didn't like and hang on to power how ever he could. Don't forget he resigned as care taker PM, was duly replaced, and then seized the position back when he changed his mind. Not really interested in democracy other than using it as a veneer.

 

With the Junta, there's no option. Like it or lump it anyway, they'll stay for as long as they please.

 

The editorial is indeed excellent and sums up the whole sordid mess nicely.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Baerboxer

[Eric Loh]

Showdown may come early in October. Still time for Prawit to practice clinging to the table and begging for a position in the next elected government.  

[Esso49]

8 hours ago, Thian said:

What did she expect to happen? She thought the junta would give her a bunch of money every day so she could stay home and be mum?

I think a little deeper thinker would have possibly have come to the conclusion that the OPs girl friend was being somewhat philosophical and suggesting that as she is only a normal Thai person then irrespective who is running the government, taking office illegally or whatever, then as an ordinary person it will have no effect on her life.

 

The fact being that Thai governments change purely so as to give turns at the pig trough between one family of Elites to another.

[Thian]

1 hour ago, Esso49 said:

I think a little deeper thinker would have possibly have come to the conclusion that the OPs girl friend was being somewhat philosophical and suggesting that as she is only a normal Thai person then irrespective who is running the government, taking office illegally or whatever, then as an ordinary person it will have no effect on her life.

 

The fact being that Thai governments change purely so as to give turns at the pig trough between one family of Elites to another.

Well my wife works in BKK and also for her not much changed since the junta except the following:

 

-the protestors and roadblocks were all gone, we got militairy tents along the roads. So she could drive to work safe and without roadblocks.

 

-the shootings/bombings/fires had stopped in the area she had to travel daily.

 

-the police stopped demanding teamoney along the roads.

 

So for safety things had improved....Now if she and her collegues couldn't go to work anymore it sure would be felt in the whole country because you couldn't even have posted on this forum if they can't work. Maybe it's good if that happens for a week or so, everything outside BKK disconnected from internet and cellphones...that would change the attitudes me thinks..

[lamyai3]

On 9/26/2018 at 1:49 PM, nikmar said:

 

He s clearly ready for battle.

 

 

As the old song goes, "the very model of a modern major general"...