One year Visa Renewal

[KevinboyCM]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

I have not heard of past retirement-based extensions or Non-O based-on-retirement Visas being accepted.  I am guessing you mean 10-years of getting annual extensions from immigration, rather than Visas from consulates (this affects seasoning, below).

 

 

No.  Applicants have used the "proof of income" letter as "proof of retirement."  Maybe another type of letter will also work, but this is the one I have seen referenced repeatedly in this forum, for this purpose, as being accepted there.

 

When applying at Savannakhet, the applicant needs to show a bank-statement (can be a foreign-bank's statement) and embassy income-letter - even if your financials are met entirely by one or the other.

 

 

If this is an extension tacked onto a previous extension from immigration (versus an entry from a Non-O Visa or Non-OA Visa from a consulate), then you need 3 months seasoning - not two.  The two months seasoning is only if it is your first "extension based on retirement" since beginning the process - starting with a Non-O stamp ("conversion" - not extension) or Non-O Visa entry.

 

 

This makes no difference when doing an extension in Thailand.  I'm not saying it should make no difference - only that it won't.  If the money isn't in Thailand it won't help you at immigration-offices in Thailand.

 

 

Maybe.  The office who is asking for proof (I suspect for reasons not on the "up and up") is defining what qualifies, so they are the only ones who can say for sure.  If it were me, I would start just supplying the published requirements.  If they ask for proof of the income, try showing a pattern of withdrawals matching the min-income and see if it works.

Yes, I meant 10 years or more of one year extensions. And thanks for your help.  

[KevinboyCM]

6 hours ago, KevinboyCM said:

Yes, I meant 10 years or more of one year extensions. And thanks for your help.  

So here is a question. What is the grace period if any for being late to renew?  If it is 10 days or so I can still make two deposits. And/or would it be possible to get an extension of stay and renew the one year extension within that period?  Looking for a way out here.

Edited September 29, 2018 by KevinboyCM

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, KevinboyCM said:

So here is a question. What is the grace period if any for being late to renew?  If it is 10 days or so I can still make two deposits. And/or would it be possible to get an extension of stay and renew the one year extension within that period?  Looking for a way out here.

There is no grace period. You would be fined 500 baht for everyday after your extension ends for a overstay. Immigration might still do the extension a few days late after you paid the fine.

There is no extension you can apply for unless married to a Thai that would be for 60 days to visit your wife.

[KevinboyCM]

I've often wondered why the Thai government allowed the Americans to simply go to the consulate and fill out a form saying they had income of 65K a month without any proof. I think they were the only country to do that.  Clearly everyone had to know 50-75% were lying.  So now if they are gonna ask for proof I wonder why you would even need the letter then.  I wonder if Tland got a cut of the money from the Americans. hmm

 

And for sure there is gonna be a mass exodus of Americans IMO. And a huge loss of money to Tland economy.  I wonder what they are gonna do with the folks with no money-throw them in jail?

Edited September 29, 2018 by KevinboyCM

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, KevinboyCM said:

I think they were the only country to do that. 

They are not the only one. Many other countries do them as affidavits, sworn statements and statutory declarations.

US embassies and consulates are not allowed by law to confirm or verify anything is the reason they are done as affidavits.

It is only Chiang Mai that is wanting the backup proof. It is not nationwide.

[KevinboyCM]

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

They are not the only one. Many other countries do them as affidavits, sworn statements and statutory declarations.

US embassies and consulates are not allowed by law to confirm or verify anything is the reason they are done as affidavits.

I think you are incorrect. The other countries require actual proof before they hand out the affidavits etc. The US consulate requires nothing. They have to know it is a scam in a lot of cases as surely so do the Thai Immigration dept. Just saying.

 

Of course requiring $2100 a month in income is a joke as many folks live on much less than that. 

Edited September 29, 2018 by KevinboyCM

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, KevinboyCM said:

I think you are incorrect.

Australia does not ask for proof. There are others as well. Also many that ask for proof do not verify what is provided.

Not sure why you keep writing $2500. It is 65k baht and that is less $2100 at current rates.

[KevinboyCM]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

Australia does not ask for proof. There are others as well. Also many that ask for proof do not verify what is provided.

Not sure why you keep writing $2500. It is 65k baht and that is less $2100 at current rates.

I changed it to $2100. I  stand corrected there but I have friends from Australia, Germany, France and England all say you need proof. Whatever.  Anyway thanks for all the help. Gotta just hope they accept the money from my original 1 million baht I deposited years ago and have been living off. If not maybe time to move to VN.  lol

[KevinboyCM]

Sorry to be a pest but I thought of another question. The 65k baht. Do you have to show it was deposited monthly in to a Thai bank account or for example if it is a pension or social security from the government but goes in to your foreign bank acct is that ok? thanks

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2018 by KevinboyCM

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, KevinboyCM said:

I've often wondered why the Thai government allowed the Americans to simply go to the consulate and fill out a form saying they had income of 65K a month without any proof. I think they were the only country to do that.  Clearly everyone had to know 50-75% were lying.

 

Its a serious violation of US-Law to do that.  I would not do it, and I doubt most would. 

 

And imagine what would happen if the IRS got a hold of those affadavits?  There may be some legal-restriction preventing that from happening now, but that could change.  The fakers could choose between admitting lying to the IRS, or making a false-statement to a Consular official. 

 

2 hours ago, KevinboyCM said:

And for sure there is gonna be a mass exodus of Americans IMO.

Likely, most will just start paying agents to fake the money for them, as countless-thousands of others already do.  That is what Immigration wants most, after all.

 

1 hour ago, KevinboyCM said:

Of course requiring $2100 a month in income is a joke as many folks live on much less than that. 

 

Yes - and especially those who live here, at least in part, due to the lower cost of living - to stretch their pensions/savings.  But, the high-number increases the need for agents, so ...

 

1 hour ago, KevinboyCM said:

The other countries require actual proof before they hand out the affidavits etc.

 

For Brits and others, some allow proven gross income - not net.  Imagine a rental with overhead costs - those folks can just sum the rental income sans costs.  Therefore, many who have the so-called "proven money" Embassy affidavits from other countries' consular officials don't actually have that much net-income.  

 

1 hour ago, KevinboyCM said:

Sorry to be a pest but I thought of another question. The 65k baht. Do you have to show it was deposited monthly in to a Thai bank account or for example if it is a pension or social security from the government but goes in to your foreign bank acct is that ok? thanks

The law says "income" - not "income sent to Thailand."  So, yes, that should be fine, by law.  There was a time awhile back when some offices were threatening that "Next year you have to show it was transferred into Thailand" - even made them sign a letter agreeing to this - but I do not recall anyone reporting they followed through on that threat. 

 

I would go by the assumption CM would honor proof of your income into a foreign-account as backup-proof for the embassy affidavit.  But do let us know what transpires, as this could help others deal with that office in the future.

Edited September 29, 2018 by JackThompson

[KevinboyCM]

9 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 

Its a serious violation of US-Law to do that.  I would not do it, and I doubt most would. 

 

And imagine what would happen if the IRS got a hold of those affadavits?  There may be some legal-restriction preventing that from happening now, but that could change.  The fakers could choose between admitting lying to the IRS, or making a false-statement to a Consular official. 

 

Likely, most will just start paying agents to fake the money for them, as countless-thousands of others already do.  That is what Immigration wants most, after all.

 

 

Yes - and especially those who live here, at least in part, due to the lower cost of living - to stretch their pensions/savings.  But, the high-number increases the need for agents, so ...

 

 

For Brits and others, some allow proven gross income - not net.  Imagine a rental with overhead costs - those folks can just sum the rental income sans costs.  Therefore, many who have the so-called "proven money" Embassy affidavits from other countries' consular officials don't actually have that much net-income.  

 

The law says "income" - not "income sent to Thailand."  So, yes, that should be fine, by law.  There was a time awhile back when some offices were threatening that "Next year you have to show it was transferred into Thailand" - even made them sign a letter agreeing to this - but I do not recall anyone reporting they followed through on that threat. 

 

I would go by the assumption CM would honor proof of your income into a foreign-account as backup-proof for the embassy affidavit.  But do let us know what transpires, as this could help others deal with that office in the future.

Yeah, the whole thing is a joke. If they accept your pension money as proof (in a foreign acct) but they won't accept a million bucks in a foreign acct <deleted>.  lol  Amazing Thailand.  I'll let the forum know what happens. Thanks again.

[bubba]

Quote

And imagine what would happen if the IRS got a hold of those affadavits?  There may be some legal-restriction preventing that from happening now, but that could change.

 

There is no way IRS could get hold of the affidavits from the Consulates, since they do not retain a copy. 

[iamariva1957]

On 9/28/2018 at 3:25 PM, ubonjoe said:

I assume you mean an extension of stay not a visa. 

You can apply for the new extension up to 30 day early or 45 days at some offices.

There have been reports Chiang Mai immigration is asking for back proof for income affidavits. They still accept the affidavits. No reports on other offices doing it.

So it is just CM asking for backup proof of income for the affidavit? Got mine... I love in Mae Sot and so know everyone in that office for the past 6 years and never been asked for backup proof if income. I am on a Retirement Visa (1-Year multi entry... though I have not been home in 2 years now). I have had questions on this issue from a number of local US  (I am the US Consulate Civilian Volunteer Liaison ... CVL... for Tak Province. So just trying to keep up with things.

As always.. thanks Joe!

[iamariva1957]

18 hours ago, KevinboyCM said:

I changed it to $2100. I  stand corrected there but I have friends from Australia, Germany, France and England all say you need proof. Whatever.  Anyway thanks for all the help. Gotta just hope they accept the money from my original 1 million baht I deposited years ago and have been living off. If not maybe time to move to VN.  lol

 

19 hours ago, KevinboyCM said:

I've often wondered why the Thai government allowed the Americans to simply go to the consulate and fill out a form saying they had income of 65K a month without any proof. I think they were the only country to do that.  Clearly everyone had to know 50-75% were lying.  So now if they are gonna ask for proof I wonder why you would even need the letter then.  I wonder if Tland got a cut of the money from the Americans. hmm

 

And for sure there is gonna be a mass exodus of Americans IMO. And a huge loss of money to Tland economy.  I wonder what they are gonna do with the folks with no money-throw them in jail?

The US is one of a few countries that do not require backup proof of income when applying for an Income Affidavit letter (under notary services). Some countries ask for said backup documents... but they are usually not checked... no searches are made... or verification undertaken regarding said documents. For that takes time, effort, manpower, and at least a week to sift through the stack ... that is sure to be on their desks. Hence, we like to see them but will take your word for it as you are swearing to what is contained within the Income Affidavit which under the law you are responsible for any falsehoods record in said document and could, therefore, be prosecuted under the laws of your country.  How that would happen is anyone's guess. 

 

As for Thailand losing money from this ... oh come on. Thailand will do just fine as it has always done. They have the Two Price System that is alive and well and works just fine.

 

Homelessness is an issue and I agree with you. If those individuals are found then in my opinion they should be the responsibility of the individual's embassy/consulate... or the UN or perhaps an NGO operation. If they hold a passport then that country should supply all the help that they can to resettle these individuals and get them back home. Actually we should all be willing to help in someway... but I get it... not always easy and not always the best of ideas regarding self-protection.

[ross163103]

I'm glad some people have patience on this forum.........me, not so much, I'm outta this thread.

[KevinboyCM]

3 hours ago, iamariva1957 said:

 

The US is one of a few countries that do not require backup proof of income when applying for an Income Affidavit letter (under notary services). Some countries ask for said backup documents... but they are usually not checked... no searches are made... or verification undertaken regarding said documents. For that takes time, effort, manpower, and at least a week to sift through the stack ... that is sure to be on their desks. Hence, we like to see them but will take your word for it as you are swearing to what is contained within the Income Affidavit which under the law you are responsible for any falsehoods record in said document and could, therefore, be prosecuted under the laws of your country.  How that would happen is anyone's guess. 

 

As for Thailand losing money from this ... oh come on. Thailand will do just fine as it has always done. They have the Two Price System that is alive and well and works just fine.

 

Homelessness is an issue and I agree with you. If those individuals are found then in my opinion they should be the responsibility of the individual's embassy/consulate... or the UN or perhaps an NGO operation. If they hold a passport then that country should supply all the help that they can to resettle these individuals and get them back home. Actually we should all be willing to help in someway... but I get it... not always easy and not always the best of ideas regarding self-protection.

Maybe you can explain to me how Thailand does not lose any  money from someone who may be worth a couple hundred thousand US dollars and is not allowed to renew their extension of stay because of a technicality?  Or even someone with no money other than their social security. I would bet 50% or more of the Americans would no longer qualify. How many US folks apply for an extension using the consulate letter? 

 

Gonna be a whole lot of folks expelled IMO if they enforce it with everyone.

 

The whole thing is a sham. If you show  you have income of 65K baht a month (which does not have to be deposited in a Thai bank) you are ok but if you have a million dollars in the bank (verifyable) you are sol. Makes no sense like anything else here.

 

And of course they aren't gonna verify the documents but the applicant still has to come up with a document. Not easy to fake a document IMO.

Edited September 30, 2018 by KevinboyCM

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, KevinboyCM said:

Maybe you can explain to me how Thailand does not lose any  money from someone who may be worth a couple hundred thousand US dollars and is not allowed to renew their extension of stay because of a technicality?  The whole thing is a sham. If you show  you have income of 65K baht a month (which does not have to be deposited in a Thai bank) you are ok but if you have a million dollars in the bank (verifyable) you are sol. Makes no sense like anything else here.

There is nothing to explain, my dude.

Thailand is a sovereign nation and has the right to set their immigration rules however they like, "logical" or not.

The vast majority of nations in the world (including the USA) offer no visa at all for foreigners wanting to settle there permanently for purpose of retirement.

Just learn the rules here, follow the rules if you want to stay, and the rules offend your delicate sensibilities too much … go directly to airport. 

 

Edited September 30, 2018 by Jingthing

[KevinboyCM]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

There is nothing to explain, my dude.

Thailand is a sovereign nation and has the right to set their immigration rules however they like, "logical" or not.

The vast majority of nations in the world (including the USA) offer no visa at all for foreigners wanting to settle there permanently for purpose of retirement.

Just learn the rules here, follow the rules if you want to stay, and the rules offend your delicate sensibilities too much … go directly to airport. 

 

haha. Good point. Never argue a point with someone who has no logical ability to comprehend the dialog. I was just stating the facts not the fact that Tland doesn't have the right to make up illogical laws like the TM30.  What is the point of a TM30 anyway?

[Jingthing]

24 minutes ago, KevinboyCM said:

…
  What is the point of a TM30 anyway?

To make you constantly realize that your welcome here is temporary and conditional here even if you stay for life.

[Thian]

On 9/28/2018 at 10:37 AM, KevinboyCM said:

Your answer is confusing. Let me ask it this way.  Let's say my visa expires on Nov 1.  I used to have 800K in the bank but it is now only 100K.  I do not have $2500 a month in income but I may have $100K or $1 million in my bank (not in Thailand).  So it is too late to transfer the 800K.  Although I may be a millionaire I'm gonna lose my ability to renew for one year right?

 

Well 100k in the bank is easy to show, what if the 100k$ (or millions) is invested in something like real estate or stocks...Then you won't get the visa because it's not a proof of income. You also won't get a creditcard in that situation.

[KevinboyCM]

11 minutes ago, Thian said:

 

Well 100k in the bank is easy to show, what if the 100k$ (or millions) is invested in something like real estate or stocks...Then you won't get the visa because it's not a proof of income. You also won't get a creditcard in that situation.

Not sure I follow your point. My point was that they will accept proof of income of 65K baht a month which does not have to be in a thai bank. Ex would be social security check sent directly to your USA bank thus NOT in a Thai bank but they won't accept you showing 100K cash in the same bank. If someone can explain the logic there other than to say "because" I would just be interested in knowing what it is.  Not saying they can't make up illogical laws. They can and do.  Was just trying to understand the logic behind it. 

 

I assume the wizards that make up these laws have thought their reasoning behind them before they implement them.

 

Regarding the TM 30 I fail to see why someone who has lived in the same house for 15 years and has to make 90 reports has to sleep overnight if their flight gets in after they close just to report that they are going home. It's a joke.

 

I came in from out of the country last week and told the guesthouse where I had to stay overnight he had to do it. He didn't  even know w.f it was and then he got pissed he had to go to the airport and do it. He spent half the day there he said. I just laughed.  I thought I would have to go to Promenada. I guess you can do it at the airport now. One would think if you can get a reentry visa at the airport you should be able to do a TM30 at the airport. I would like to think someone in the government would have figured that out by now.

 

I realize we are guests here but when a guest comes to my house I try to make him feel appreciated and comfortable not that I really don't want him to visit. How hard would it be to do a TM 30 at the airport?  

Edited September 30, 2018 by KevinboyCM

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, KevinboyCM said:

Not sure I follow your point. My point was that they will accept proof of income of 65K baht a month which does not have to be in a thai bank. Ex would be social security check sent directly to your USA bank thus NOT in a Thai bank but they won't accept you showing 100K cash in the same bank. If someone can explain the logic there other than to say "because" I would just be interested in knowing what it is.  Not saying they can't make up illogical laws. They can and do.  Was just trying to understand the logic behind it. 

 

I assume the wizards that make up these laws have thought their reasoning behind them before they implement them.

 

Regarding the TM 30 I fail to see why someone who has lived in the same house for 15 years and has to make 90 reports has to sleep overnight if their flight gets in after they close just to report that they are going home. It's a joke.

 

I came in from out of the country last week and told the guesthouse where I had to stay overnight he had to do it. He didn't  even know w.f it was and then he got pissed he had to go to the airport and do it. He spent half the day there he said. I just laughed.  I thought I would have to go to Promenada. I guess you can do it at the airport now. One would think if you can get a reentry visa at the airport you should be able to do a TM30 at the airport. I would like to think someone in the government would have figured that out by now.

 

I realize we are guests here but when a guest comes to my house I try to make him feel appreciated and comfortable not that I really don't want him to visit. How hard would it be to do a TM 30 at the airport?  

 

There is a new guy who has taken over as head of Immigration who is probably your best bet to get all the answers you need.

I would suggest a hand written letter to him with a pre-paid envelope so he can reply directly to you and solve all your problems.

[KevinboyCM]

2 minutes ago, overherebc said:

 

There is a new guy who has taken over as head of Immigration who is probably your best bet to get all the answers you need.

I would suggest a hand written letter to him with a pre-paid envelope so he can reply directly to you and solve all your problems.

Thanks. Would you happen to know his name?  I think my situation is much too complicated for a letter but perhaps a visit. Is he at the airport?

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, KevinboyCM said:

What is the point of a TM30 anyway?

 

To keep track of where foreigners are living.  I actually applaud the underlying rationale, and wish it was done in my home-country, along with proper immigration-enforcement.  If only we had something akin to the "IDC experience," to deter abuse.

 

The problem is due to this system (which includes 90-day reports, the TM-28 and TM-6) being designed for a very different reality that currently exists - with a fraction as many foreign-visitors.  Enforcement was resurrected in response to terror-threats, but it needed to be re-designed.  Forced re-reporting of the permanent address of longer-stayers when they leave and return to the same address wastes resources and adds noise to the data-set.  If this system were streamlined, it could be done efficiently. 

 

2 hours ago, KevinboyCM said:

I assume the wizards that make up these laws have thought their reasoning behind them before they implement them.

There is a lot that happens in immigration-offices and checkpoints which is not authorized by the folks at the top.  Sadly, those folks don't do proper oversight, so we get inconsistencies from one location to another.  Given the agent-pattern at CM, it's clear to me what the motivation is.

[Thian]

5 hours ago, KevinboyCM said:

If someone can explain the logic there other than to say "because" I would just be interested in knowing what it is.

 

For me i have to show 10.000 + euro to get a multiple non-o....but that has to be cash on the bank, they won't accept a bunch of stocks , even not if one has 1 million euro stocks and can show it....

 

Also the whole idea of showing money is to make sure i can afford to live in Thailand, but what if one has a Thai partner who has enough money on the bank?? They won't accept that, even not if the farang marries a member of the most rich Thai family...I think that's weird because this whole thing of showing money has the purpose that the farang will not run out of money while in Thailand and starts begging for food.

 

Another thing i don't understand about getting the non-o is why i have to show a booked and paid ticket to apply for the visa? It's very stressfull to buy a ticket for next week and trying to get the visa because it takes 5 days to process....

 

My thai wife also thinks it's weird that they treat us like this, she makes and has enough money to support me and we are married. I also have enough money but it's still very hard to get the multiple non-o.

 

For me they will only accept money on the bank...even if i owned 20 new ferrari's or mansions that would not be accepted as proof of income so they wouldn't let me go see my wife in thailand.

[JackThompson]

8 hours ago, Thian said:

For me i have to show 10.000 + euro to get a multiple non-o....but that has to be cash on the bank, they won't accept a bunch of stocks , even not if one has 1 million euro stocks and can show it....

 

8 hours ago, Thian said:

Another thing i don't understand about getting the non-o is why i have to show a booked and paid ticket to apply for the visa? It's very stressfull to buy a ticket for next week and trying to get the visa because it takes 5 days to process.... 

 

Since you said plane-tickets, I assume you mean a Non-O Visa based on marriage to a Thai from a consulate in your home-country. 

I would get that Visa in Savannakhet, Laos, Hanoi, or HCMC next time.  No financials required, no air-tickets to show, and next-day service.

[kwan]

Canadian friend went to his embassy this week for his proof of income letter etc etc - told that as of next year that this will not be taken into account for citizens of many countries :- USA , Canada, UK. Aus,-. NZ etc. Will it happen. ???? 

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, kwan said:

Canadian friend went to his embassy this week for his proof of income letter etc etc - told that as of next year that this will not be taken into account for citizens of many countries :- USA , Canada, UK. Aus,-. NZ etc. Will it happen. ???? 

No it will not happen. 

[KevinboyCM]

8 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

No it will not happen. 

Yes and no.  I have been to three Visa companies today. I have no clue why anyone uses OS as they gave me three different answers but the jist is this. The countries where you were able to go to the consulate and get a letter affirming that you had an income of 65K baht per month (option B) are still required. BUT, unlike past years they also require you to prove your income with affidavits, etc.  You can no longer lie and get away with it (not suggesting anyone did that)

 

And it gets worse.  For example if you are American let's say you have a monthly income of 40000 baht (say from social security or a pension) that still leaves you about 25k short each month. That money is acceptable even if it is outside Thailand (maybe direct deposited to your bank in US or Canada or wherever). The joke is even if you had a million dollars in your Thai bank acct they will not accept it as income.  

 

Plus you have to have the money seeded for 3 months prior to the expiration of your Extension of stay.  

 

I was told there is one other way to do it.  You muliply 40k baht times 12 months and that gets you 480000 baht. Subtract that from 800000 baht (option A one time deposit) and you would be able to deposit 320000 baht one time 3 months prior to your x date and you are good.

 

I do not guarantee ANY of this info is accurate.  A lot of it makes NO sense whatever logically but..............................

Edited October 1, 2018 by KevinboyCM

[JackThompson]

13 hours ago, KevinboyCM said:

I was told there is one other way to do it.  You muliply 40k baht times 12 months and that gets you 480000 baht. Subtract that from 800000 baht (option A one time deposit) and you would be able to deposit 320000 baht one time 3 months prior to your x date and you are good.

This is correct, 40K Baht mo-income would require that bank-deposit to reach 800K total.  This is the same rule everywhere. 

 

I am surprised none of the agents offered to get your extension done without worrying about the 3-months seasoning at all, since many get these done for their clients on 800K which is loaned for less than a day.

Edited October 2, 2018 by JackThompson