AirBnB vs Hotels - battle lines drawn in fight for tourist dollars in Chiang Mai

[The Deerhunter]

On 9/30/2018 at 8:23 AM, hobz said:

What about the Chinese hords? They estimate it's just gonna get worse every year. Airport expanding. Second airport being fast tracked / on the way. They estimate 20 million tourists by 2030?

Yeah everyone wants people spitting all around their house, footprints on the toilet seat and smelly heaps in the back yard.

[chainarong]

On ‎9‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 5:07 PM, WinnieTheKhwai said:

It would be excellent if tourism diversified into surrounding areas.   Sadly though the author of the article seems to have just made that up, because it's seriously difficult to get guests for a property out of town via AirBnB.   (I know, I've tried.)

I am looking at this subject with interest but not from a Airbnb perspective, from what I can gather unless you supply regular transport into CM whether Airbnb, hotel or resort you've got mine and buckley's  of attracting many to the remote area's. 

[hobz]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

So why make ill informed posts?

If you think some Airbnb rentals don't cause noise disturbance and living hell for neighbors then you are ill informed.

[hobz]

1 hour ago, The Deerhunter said:

Yeah everyone wants people spitting all around their house, footprints on the toilet seat and smelly heaps in the back yard.

Didn't say it was good or bad. Just said numbers are coming.

If u want my personal opinion I hope they demolish the airport and ban all Chinese tourists ????

[hobz]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

So why make ill informed posts?

If u wanna get informed, Google airbnbhell. There's an entire site dedicated to these stories.

I didn't need to read a bunch of stories ... It's so obvious that bigger units will attract some party ppl ... 

If you can't comprehend this you are probably braindamaged 

[hobz]

Collection of stories from neighbors to Airbnb hosts .. most seem to be for bigger units / houses... https://www.airbnbhell.com/airbnb-neighbor-stories/

[blackhorse]

This is the biggest problem, people spreading false information.
It has nothing to do with 30 days, the law is based on the number of rooms in the premises. In the case of condos a judge ruled that all rooms in the building should be taken into account, not just what was owned by the host.

Huh? So in which scenario is 1 day allowed in a condo building (non hotel)

[blackhorse]

I doubt if 5% of AirBNB /Booking/ Agoda etc type of home/apartment rentals are operating legally including the foreign operators who in many cases are also illegally operating without correct visas, no wonder legal operations are pissed off.
There is no control/ checks whatsoever by the companies providing the platforms to rent out the properties and the police and immigration seem to not care at all.

You expect the companies to be up to date with the constantly changing laws the world over? Not only countries but also states within countries!

You can't be serious

[aparasher]

We stayed in Airbnb apartment in one of the condos in Bang Rak in January. Condo's management had put notices all over them building advising that short-term/Airbnb rental was illegal and requested residents to report if they think someone is doing so. This meant that we were hanging off of the edge during the whole week of our stay. So I am not planning to use it in Thailand unless it is clearly identified to be legal.

[Galactus]

rich and greedy hotels and their owners got concerned! then drop your nonsense prices, and offer a better service.

there are around 50 000 rooms when compared with 2816 AIRBnB offerings. which is like 5 percent.

So, rich hotel owners, just share that 5 % with some remote localities and businesses too! what is wrong with that??

[balo]

Does this mean that the Thai government will allow AirBNB short term rentals again?  Because here in the south there has been a crackdown on daily rentals.   

 

So if the rent is less than 1 month it's not allowed.   

[blackhorse]

Does this mean that the Thai government will allow AirBNB short term rentals again?  Because here in the south there has been a crackdown on daily rentals.   
 
So if the rent is less than 1 month it's not allowed.   

They may as well. Air bnb is an unstoppable force sweeping the globe and Thailand although why anybody would want to rent there condo out nightly is beyond me.. Air bnb customers are needy and expect extra service and 24 hour contact.

Air bnb are very smart and generous. They offer hosts a 4k cash bonus if they recommend another host and that host gets a booking even if it's only one night.

I have recommend 5 so far so a nice little bonus and it insures their platform continues to grow

[Thailand]

37 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

You expect the companies to be up to date with the constantly changing laws the world over? Not only countries but also states within countries!

You can't be serious

Very serious.

You could perhaps rent my house and then put it on any of the online sites, AirBnb, Agoda, Booking, etc etc. and advertise as a hotel.

They make no checks to see if you even have the rights to do this, local laws have nothing to do with it.

I am very familiar with what is happening here at the moment, the main movers are the Chinese, here on tourist, education visas etc simply renting a couple of houses/ apartments advertising the them via the likes of QQ, WeChat, Weisin as homestay no need for the likes of AirBnb. No reporting so no records unless the neighbors complain and then unlikely to cause any waves.

 

[blackhorse]

Very serious.
You could perhaps rent my house and then put it on any of the online sites, AirBnb, Agoda, Booking, etc etc. and advertise as a hotel.
They make no checks to see if you even have the rights to do this, local laws have nothing to do with it.
I am very familiar with what is happening here at the moment, the main movers are the Chinese, here on tourist, education visas etc simply renting a couple of houses/ apartments advertising the them via the likes of QQ, WeChat, Weisin as homestay no need for the likes of AirBnb. No reporting so no records unless the neighbors complain and then unlikely to cause any waves.
 

I see your point however most leases prevent the tenant to sub let the entire premises so that is between the tenant and the owner and not air bnb or agoda.

[Thailand]

10 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

I see your point however most leases prevent the tenant to sub let the entire premises so that is between the tenant and the owner and not air bnb or agoda.


 

Irrespective of whether or not lease agreements allow it many people are doing it, no licenses, no permits, no legal rights to do so on tourist, education visas. 

Rental agencies are actively encouraging renters to lease for "homestay" knowing full well it is generally against the law in some shape or form here.

Most of the online providers have a caveat asking if those placing the ads for homestay have the rights to do so, simply a yes is acceptable! No additional checks. 

Once the property is on the online providers website it is almost impossible to get it removed.

If immigration ever wanted to make a killing in terms of fines this is a golden opportunity, I don't see them missing out for too long.

All that said I have no problem with the "homestay" concept, simply do it it legally, not a difficult thing to do.

[blackhorse]

Irrespective of whether or not lease agreements allow it many people are doing it, no licenses, no permits, no legal rights to do so on tourist, education visas. 

Rental agencies are actively encouraging renters to lease for "homestay" knowing full well it is generally against the law in some shape or form here.

Most of the online providers have a caveat asking if those placing the ads for homestay have the rights to do so, simply a yes is acceptable! No additional checks. 

Once the property is on the online providers website it is almost impossible to get it removed.

If immigration ever wanted to make a killing in terms of fines this is a golden opportunity, I don't see them missing out for too long.

All that said I have no problem with the "homestay" concept, simply do it it legally, not a difficult thing to do.

How would they the platforms prevent it?

As a host they are very stringent in checking out who the actuall host is but I Don't know any way they can check for subletting.

To expect the host to retrieve the property deeds from the lawyers office is a bit much and they would all be in different languages across the globe [emoji273]

 

I think it's fair they provide the platform and that's why fines are in place in Thailand against the host and not air bnb.

 

I only rent 30 days and I will report a tenant to juristic if I suspect it's short stay as the practice is banned in our building.

 

[Thailand]

13 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

How would they the platforms prevent it?

As a host they are very stringent in checking out who the actuall host is but I Don't know any way they can check for subletting.

To expect the host to retrieve the property deeds from the lawyers office is a bit much and they would all be in different languages across the globe

 

I think it's fair they provide the platform and that's why fines are in place in Thailand against the host and not air bnb.

 

I only rent 30 days and I will report a tenant to juristic if I suspect it's short stay as the practice is banned in our building.

 

In what way do AirBNB and the others offering the same services check who the actual host is?

[blackhorse]

In what way do AirBNB and the others offering the same services check who the actual host is?

It's been a while since I did mine. They did actually ask for utility bills passport or picture ID and they then use face recognition software that matches a separate pic to your photo ID right there on your PC or at least they used to

And then of course there are bank account details etc.

Asking for utilities actually does sort of do an owners check [emoji819]

The host doesn't get paid untill 24 hours after check in to make sure the property in the pics is what it reflects.

[blackhorse]

In what way do AirBNB and the others offering the same services check who the actual host is?

It's been a while since I did mine. They did actually ask for utility bills passport or picture ID and they then use face recognition software that matches a separate pic to your photo ID right there on your PC or at least they used to

And then of course there are bank account details etc.

Asking for utilities actually does sort of do an owners check [emoji819]

The host doesn't get paid untill 24 hours after check in to make sure the property in the pics is what it reflects.

[Sparkles]

2 resorts we stay at on a regular basis,one at Mae Rim and one out towards Samoeng both do AirBNB ,seems a very grey area.

 

Off topic but according to a high profile, Australian entrepreneur, Dick Smith, bookings made through a multitude of well known booking sites results in the commision not staying in Australia, as most people believed, it goes to the companies whose base is in the US.

 

He's going to be like a dog with a bone on this if true.

[sandyf]

20 hours ago, hobz said:

If you think some Airbnb rentals don't cause noise disturbance and living hell for neighbors then you are ill informed.

This makes you the one that is ill informed. Your words. "Only one post mentions the real problem with Airbnb. "

 

 

 

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, blackhorse said:

It's been a while since I did mine. They did actually ask for utility bills passport or picture ID and they then use face recognition software that matches a separate pic to your photo ID right there on your PC or at least they used to

And then of course there are bank account details etc.

Asking for utilities actually does sort of do an owners check

The host doesn't get paid untill 24 hours after check in to make sure the property in the pics is what it reflects.

They still use the face recognition software, and on guests as well.

[sandyf]

19 hours ago, blackhorse said:

23 hours ago, sandyf said:

This is the biggest problem, people spreading false information.
It has nothing to do with 30 days, the law is based on the number of rooms in the premises. In the case of condos a judge ruled that all rooms in the building should be taken into account, not just what was owned by the host.

Huh? So in which scenario is 1 day allowed in a condo building (non hotel)

Why misinterpret the post. I said in respect of condos all rooms would be taken into account meaning that a licence would be required so unless the the building in its entirety held a hotel licence, a 1 day booking would not be allowed.

Many small properties with only a couple of rooms are exempt from the hotel licence and 1 day bookings are perfectly legal but the whole thing gets distorted by the condo ruling.

Earlier this year I had an Airbnb booking in a condo in Hua Hin, it was owned by a Thai and I think he owned a few in the building. The condo building was attached to a hotel with shared facilities but I do not know if the hotel licence covered the condo units or not, unlikely. If there was any law being broken it was on the part of the host not conforming with local laws, nothing to do with Airbnb or the guests..

In the time I was there I doubt if I saw a dozen people. The bar had been closed down, obviously for some time and the gym looked like it was going to follow suit. I have seen it in other parts of the world where unused units get let out by the management to holiday companies and you end up with the same sort of guest that everyone objects to.

[hobz]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

This makes you the one that is ill informed. Your words. "Only one post mentions the real problem with Airbnb. "

 

 

 

Yes, I stand by that. Just because your mind can't fathom something having a real problem while also being good at the same time doesn't mean I'm uninformed. It just means you're kind of simple minded.

 

Yes, some Airbnb hosts cause nightmare for neighbors (the real problem). Some do not (not a problem). Please try to squeeze both these ideas into that skull of yours.

They are not contradicting each other.

Edited October 2, 2018 by hobz

[hobz]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Why misinterpret the post. I said in respect of condos all rooms would be taken into account meaning that a licence would be required so unless the the building in its entirety held a hotel licence, a 1 day booking would not be allowed.

Many small properties with only a couple of rooms are exempt from the hotel licence and 1 day bookings are perfectly legal but the whole thing gets distorted by the condo ruling.

Earlier this year I had an Airbnb booking in a condo in Hua Hin, it was owned by a Thai and I think he owned a few in the building. The condo building was attached to a hotel with shared facilities but I do not know if the hotel licence covered the condo units or not, unlikely. If there was any law being broken it was on the part of the host not conforming with local laws, nothing to do with Airbnb or the guests..

In the time I was there I doubt if I saw a dozen people. The bar had been closed down, obviously for some time and the gym looked like it was going to follow suit. I have seen it in other parts of the world where unused units get let out by the management to holiday companies and you end up with the same sort of guest that everyone objects to.

I agree it's the host breaking the law.

Airbnb could be argued as being complicit or aiding in breaking the law. Thai government could force Airbnb to ensure that everyone has a hotel license when renting below 30 days.

It could also be that the host is forced to agree with Airbnb that the host is responsible for following the law in respective country etc. I bet Airbnb has this somewhere in terms / agreements.

[HaleySabai]

Last year I scanned through the AirBnB listings here in CM and was shocked at most of the asking prices. 1500 - 3500 range per.night. Quite high I thought.