BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, roger101 said:

Does anybody know how many Income Letters are actually processed by the relevant embassies per year. This might tell us how much Foreign Exchange the government will lose if we all go home. Not to mention our wives and children.

In a recent interview, the British Embassy said they process about 250 per month, so ~3'000 per year.

British make the biggest farang expat community. USA about 1/2 of it. Germany & France about 1/3 of it each.

 

How many of those using the Income Letter cannot get the 400/800k? Probably a rather small part of them (IMHO).

[Spidey]

2 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

In a recent interview, the British Embassy said they process about 250 per month, so ~3'000 per year.

And that figure seems way too low to me. She got just about everything else wrong in the interview, probably got that wrong too.

[gdhm]

2 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

In a recent interview, the British Embassy said they process about 250 per month, so ~3'000 per year.

British make the biggest farang expat community. USA about 1/2 of it. Germany & France about 1/3 of it each.

 

How many of those using the Income Letter cannot get the 400/800k? Probably a rather small part of them (IMHO).

Hi Pattaya46 ????

Various posters in several threads have reasonably asked similar questions. However, I feel all have missed a very important and salient aspect for many of us who have to date relied on the BE Proof of Income Letter. 

 

Even if it is assumed most can get the 400K or 800k (which I feel may be a big assumption for many) that money is useless and tied up, whilst earning a pittance in interest in a Thai Savings/Fixed Deposit Account.  In my case (for example) I cannot continue with my 12 years of Retirement Extensions because, although I had some savings already, I cannot reach 800k in time for my next extension. 

When I do manage to raise my savings to 400k for a Marriage Visa Extension, that will be 400k of savings I can no longer use for emergencies (medical or other) for me or my family. I had in particular, earmarked savings in my Thai account primarily for medical expenses I may incur in the future. I cannot get medical insurance and even if I could afford it and was offered cover with major exclusions, what would be the point. 

 

I do realize I, and others, could use savings (if many month's from a Visa Extension application) for emergencies provided savings are restored a few months before Extension renewal. But let's be honest, how many would realistically be able to make up shortfalls in time.  In my case, for example,  such a plan would by impossible because my monthly income surplus although OK, is not large enough AND it would be a case of Russian Roulette whether the emergency occurred long before the next extension or not.

I am sure many concerned others would/will be in a similar situation. 

 

An additional point. Although I now have no choice unless something changes officially, I did not want to switch to a Marriage Visa, which is more complex and intrusive of my privacy.  I feel sure there are others here however, who are not married and are now facing trying to accumulate 800k saving in a Thai Account in time. I could not have achieved that, and am very fortunate I am happily married and only need to accumulate 400k.

 

[Spidey]

36 minutes ago, richiejom said:

 

Edit:  Just found my screenshot...shows 550 baht fee for transferwise...the dummy branch one was Paypal - 'International' one is Transferwise

 

A local Immigration Officer wouldn't be able to make moss nor sand of that. He'd just hand it back to you and tell you to go and get an embassy letter.

[wayned]

17 minutes ago, Spidey said:

A local Immigration Officer wouldn't be able to make moss nor sand of that. He'd just hand it back to you and tell you to go and get an embassy letter.

My IO wouldn't even look at it.  She would just ask for the Embassy letter and when I told her I didn't have one, she would yell NEXT!

[Spidey]

Just now, richiejom said:

I've got an Embassy letter and my agent told me last week try and put 30K in your Thai bank to show just in case so make of that what you will

Does your agent seed an account for you?

[soalbundy]

The silence from TI is deafening.

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, richiejom said:

There was a 500 fee the same as a normal foreign bank transfer when arriving in Kasikorn but no fees for sending (I think, hence the reason for my question but your right I could just go check the site but can't remember my password at the mo)

There is a fee for sending fixed @ 0.5% + £1.50.

 

You should not be charged an exchange fee by Kasikorn as the remuneration is paid into your account locally in Thai baht.

I would question Kasikorn what the fee relates to.

I'm not charged a satang by BKK for deposits from TW.

[Moonlover]

4 hours ago, richiejom said:

On ‎10‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 7:52 AM, Moonlover said:

You can easily find out for yourself by going to their website and initiating a dummy transfer. All the information you need is on that site.

 

500 baht fee. Why so? The last leg of a Transerwise transaction is a domestic bank to bank one. There shouldn't be any fee. 

 

4 hours ago, richiejom said:

I did a transfer to Kasikorn a few months ago from Transferwise and the last leg is not a domestic bank... Transferwise shows as a foreign transfer.  Exactly the reason I'm considering using it again to prove funds from abroad. 

 

There was a 500 fee the same as a normal foreign bank transfer when arriving in Kasikorn but no fees for sending (I think, hence the reason for my question but your right I could just go check the site but can't remember my password at the mo)

 

I posted a screenshot showing the 500 baht fee and it shows as a foreign transfer on another thread but I'd have to sign in and screenshot it if you don't believe me

 

Lloyds bank transfer - big fee on UK side and 500 baht on Kasikorn side

 

Paypal on the other hand shows as a domestic transfer 'dummy branch' with no fee

 

 

Edit:  Just found my screenshot...shows 550 baht fee for transferwise...the dummy branch one was Paypal - 'International' one is Transferwise

 

Richiejom, what you have posted here is NOT a TransferWise transaction. It is very clearly some form of international transfer. TransferWise do not do it that way. It is all done by domestic transfers. The final leg being from Bangkok Bank to your account. You must be confusing this with another method that you have used.

 

For a short and clear explanation of how T/W transactions work visit the following website and click on 'How does it Work?'.

 

https://transferwise.com/help

 

Have a nice day.

 

ML

Edited October 29, 2018 by Moonlover

[evadgib]

10 hours ago, roger101 said:

Does anybody know how many Income Letters are actually processed by the relevant embassies per year. This might tell us how much Foreign Exchange the government will lose if we all go home. Not to mention our wives and children.

Further to other answers; Accurate stats will be available via FoI request submitted to home Govts or each Embassy. For Brits the process starts here: 

https://www.gov.uk/make-a-freedom-of-information-request

HTH

Edited October 29, 2018 by evadgib

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

The silence from TI is deafening.

Indeed. My gut feeling is that, through their insistence on verification which they know that most (if not all) embassies will be able to deliver in practice, they're in effect scrapping the monthly income option by the back door, thus leaving seasoned bank balances as the only way of proving finances at annual extension of stay time.

 

Would be happy to be proven wrong, but I fear that this sounds unlikely as things stand.

[OneeyedJohn]

Agree with that feeling too, nothing I've read on this or the USA thread gives me any hope.

I was going to visit immigration today with my wife to check whats what, but have decided I didn't want to spoil my day.

 

It can wait.

[alphason]

5 hours ago, richiejom said:

I did a transfer to Kasikorn a few months ago from Transferwise and the last leg is not a domestic bank... Transferwise shows as a foreign transfer.  Exactly the reason I'm considering using it again to prove funds from abroad. 

 

There was a 500 fee the same as a normal foreign bank transfer when arriving in Kasikorn but no fees for sending (I think, hence the reason for my question but your right I could just go check the site but can't remember my password at the mo)

 

I posted a screenshot showing the 500 baht fee and it shows as a foreign transfer on another thread but I'd have to sign in and screenshot it if you don't believe me

 

Lloyds bank transfer - big fee on UK side and 500 baht on Kasikorn side

 

Paypal on the other hand shows as a domestic transfer 'dummy branch' with no fee

 

 

Edit:  Just found my screenshot...shows 550 baht fee for transferwise...the dummy branch one was Paypal - 'International' one is Transferwise

 

Never had a local bank charge from  Kasikorn using transferwise, are you sure the charge is from the transferwise transaction, I would check it.

 

I have had different decscriptions though on the K bank account, dummy branch or international trade etc, I once asked transferwise why this was and why it couldn't just say international transfer, after some checking they gave me the answer...

 

If money is transferred through BBL beneficiary bank shows it on the recipient’s account as Dummy Branch while if the partner is the Kbank beneficiary bank shows International Trade and Factoring Center. I’m afraid there’s nothing we can do from our end to help the you as we cannot influence what will be written on the beneficiary’s account as far as we don’t intervene in the transfers. Unfortunately we cannot always transfer through Kbank either, as far as it is not our main partner.

 

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, OneeyedJohn said:

I was going to visit immigration today with my wife to check whats what, but have decided I didn't want to spoil my day.

That would of certainly been a wasted trip.

Until the Immigration Bureau does a directive or a new police order the local offices are going to say they need an income letter.

[evadgib]

15 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

The only compromise solution will be down to Immigration.

Introducing automatic PR for married or retired personnel after say 3 trouble free years would be a step in the right direction as would parity re the financial exemption that currently allows ferang females married to Thai males to bypass any such hoops.

 

(I'm surprised the latter has never been challenged in court!).

Edited October 29, 2018 by evadgib

[Jingthing]

There has to be a system to "verify" ALL income streams, not just official government ones and it has to be done by an organization that is NOT Thai Immigration. You think they are going to give themselves more work? They tried to fob it off on the US and British embassies, who quite rightly said "sod that" and have now discontinued the letter.
Stop looking at this problem from just your own circumstances and widen your perspective.

Actually there doesn't need to be any such thing. They can keep the status quo and only nationals that have embassies willing to do the letters would have the income option. Or they could limit eligible income for retirement status to be government pensions only as is not uncommon internationally for nations offering retirement visas. Or they could enforce a monthly import requirement which does not exist now but has been widely discussed in recent weeks.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[wayned]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That would of certainly been a wasted trip.

Until the Immigration Bureau does a directive or a new police order the local offices are going to say they need an income letter.

And since the US and UK Embassies will continue to issue them until 1 January and they are good for 6 months,  that'll most likely put any change on hold until next June and then it will be a panic all over again!

[OneeyedJohn]

I remember years ago doing the marriage visa,  but then we had to travel 100 Kms each way to see the immigration, and I had to have my wife with me. In those days the rules changed every year, which inevitably meant more than one trip to fulfil their nitpicking requirements, and then a further trip to actually pick up the visa one month after the initial application.

  Now the office has moved to a central location in town, so at least that part will be easier if I end up going down the marriage route.

 

How ironic I used to bitch and moan about the exhorbitant cost of the embassy letter.......hmmm.

[Jingthing]

Indeed. My gut feeling is that, through their insistence on verification which they know that most (if not all) embassies will be able to deliver in practice, they're in effect scrapping the monthly income option by the back door, thus leaving seasoned bank balances as the only way of proving finances at annual extension of stay time.
 
Would be happy to be proven wrong, but I fear that this sounds unlikely as things stand.

Quite possible. That or perhaps still allowing it but requiring full monthly import of claimed income which would be onerous for a significant portion of people that do have the claimed income. If that then does the combo method go away?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jingthing]

Agree with that feeling too, nothing I've read on this or the USA thread gives me any hope.
I was going to visit immigration today with my wife to check whats what, but have decided I didn't want to spoil my day.
 
It can wait.

I think you're wasting your time asking front line officers about this. Way too early. Any info you got if any would be meaningless.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, wayned said:

And since the US and UK Embassies will continue to issue them until 1 January and they are good for 6 months,  that'll most likely put any change on hold until next June and then it will be a panic all over again!

I think immigration will do something much sooner than that.

The UK and US embassies and perhaps others have  put the ball in immigrations court for them to do something. The pressure is now on them to come up with something.

 

[Spidey]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

I think immigration will do something much sooner than that.

The UK and US embassies and perhaps others have  put the ball in immigrations court for them to do something. The pressure is now on them to come up with something.

 

What pressure? What incentive do TI have to do anything at all?

[evadgib]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

What pressure? What incentive do TI have to do anything at all?

Granting PR as per my previous suggestion would substantially reduce the workload at each office, but TiT ????

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

What pressure? What incentive do TI have to do anything at all?

What makes you think they don't?

Do you really believe immigration and the authorities above them want to see a lot of people having to leave because of something they caused?

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

What makes you think they don't?

Do you really believe immigration and the authorities above them want to see a lot of people having to leave because of something they caused?

That would mean less work for them if I'm not mistaken and I don't think government workers ever get laid off.

[soalbundy]

5 minutes ago, Spidey said:

What pressure? What incentive do TI have to do anything at all?

loss of region of influence if a part of the visa extension system is removed, possible staff reductions, most bosses like their departments to get bigger not smaller. Lot of bookwork involved in these extensions.

[ubonjoe]

Just a reminder that posts are being removed without notice. Many troll posts meant to derail the topic or completely off topic and nonsensical posts have already been removed.

[soalbundy]

14 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I think immigration will do something much sooner than that.

The UK and US embassies and perhaps others have  put the ball in immigrations court for them to do something. The pressure is now on them to come up with something.

 

just checked the German embassy website, no change, they are still offering PDF forms to fill out for income certification.

[Spidey]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

What makes you think they don't?

Do you really believe immigration and the authorities above them want to see a lot of people having to leave because of something they caused?

I really don't think that would bother them. You have hit the nail on the head by saying "something they caused". TI will never admit to that. They will stick to the line that it's caused by a couple of embassies refusing to comply with their request (the detail of that request, we don't know).

 

As someone who knows more about the workings of TI better than most, you should know that their general aloofness (particularly at the higher level) combined with "Thai face", will never allow them to back down and admit that they might have been wrong.

 

We have a Mexican standoff between TI and the embassies and the ball is still in the embassies court. Who blinks first? I'll wager that it's not TI.

[OneeyedJohn]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

 

We have a Mexican standoff ............................

which reminds me, I must get back to watching the Grand Prix.