Arriving visa exempt and getting a Non-O Visa 90-days when in Thailand

[Markbrock]

Hello!

 

I hope there are some experts in the forum who can help me... I am about to arrive in Thailand via Visa Exempt as a UK citizen. I would like to be able to convert this into a Non-Immigrant O (90-day) Visa in Bangkok soon after my arrival, maybe via a visa agency like Siam Legal. Can I still do this in Oct-2018, as some blogs seem to suggest the law has changed and it's no longer possible to get a visa inside Thailand if you arrive exempt?? If this is the case, what's the best way to do this as I don't want to have to fly all the way back to the UK?

 

Hopefully you can help me!

 

Best wishes,

Mark

 

 

[ubonjoe]

It still possible to do one if you qualify for certain extensions of stay. What is the basis you would you be applying under.

No need to use an agency.

[Markbrock]

Sounds promising.. I'm 53 and have no plans to work. I understand the 800,000 Baht bank balance for 2-months criteria so I think I'm good with converting from Non-O 90-day to Non-O Retirement 1-year. My being concern was non being able to do this inside Thailand and having to leave the country to make a visa application. For instance, this blog said it was not possible, which made me wonder if the law has changed?

 

"Can I get a visa for Thailand in Thailand?

You cannot get a tourist visa for Thailand in Thailand. Once you are in Thailand, you can extend your current visa or you have to leave the country. Even if getting a long term visa (such as Education Visa, or Self Defence, or Non Immigrant B working visa) you still have to LEAVE the country to activate it in virtually all cases."

https://www.locationindependent.co.uk/thai-visas-digital-nomad-guide/#ThailandVisa

[ubonjoe]

False info there.

Here are the requirements to apply for a 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) entry at immigration for retirement.

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_80  (click Eng at the top of the page for English).

[Geordie Munro]

Hey Mark,

 

I am doing exactly the same thing and have been checking up on this over the past few weeks. I'm a similar age to you and won't be working in Thailand. However, I will be leaving the country sporadically during the years ahead and have been assured this is no problem if I apply for the Non OA Long Stay Multi Entry.

 

A friend of mine has her own agency in Pattaya and has confirmed that once I am on the ground and with the 30-day stamp in the passport, I can start the proceedings for the 90-day and the subsequent OA but: "... whatever you do, please remember to start the application with a minimum of 15 days left on the arrival visa - although 20 is better in case of snags".

 

Let me know how you get on - I won't be setting the wheels in motion until mid-November. All the best!

 

GM

[JackThompson]

5 minutes ago, Geordie Munro said:

the Non OA Long Stay Multi Entry.

Perhaps lost in translation - you would apply for a "Non-OA Long-Stay Visa" in your home country.  It is a 1-year Multiple-Entry visa, where you get a new 1-year permitted stay each time you enter the country, until it expires.  If you enter just before the visa expires, you can get almost 2 years of stay out of it.

 

By contrast, a 1-year "extension of stay" based on retirement is received at an immigration office in Thailand.  This is what the agent was referring to.  To apply for it, you must first have a Non-Immigrant stay as a starting-point. 

Many get to that starting-point by entering Thailand with a "Non-O Visa" (could also be a Non-OA) from their home country, or from a consulate abroad (similar to the blog-post, above). 

 

But one can also do what UJ suggests, above (and the agent was referring to), which is possible at the Chang Wattana immigration office in Bangkok without an agent.  Starting with a Tourist-type entry, you show the money (can be in the bank only that day), some other paperwork, and you get a 90-day "Non-O" permitted-stay stamp.  During the last 30-days of that period, you apply for the 1-year extension.

 

If not staying in Bangkok, and needing the Non-O stamp, ask here to find out if the local office serving your area is cooperative or not.  They are all independent fiefdoms - some are honest, and some are not.  If served by an "unhelpful" office, you must either use an agent (who pays them off) or go out for a Visa.

[Geordie Munro]

11 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Perhaps lost in translation - you would apply for a "Non-OA Long-Stay Visa" in your home country.  It is a 1-year Multiple-Entry visa, where you get a new 1-year permitted stay each time you enter the country, until it expires.  If you enter just before the visa expires, you can get almost 2 years of stay out of it.

 

Thanks JT.

 

Their exact words: "You can apply yourself and change tourist visa or 30 days on arrival to Non O in Pattaya Immigration. However, as an agency we can change from the tourist visa or 30 days on arrival to Non On Retirement visa and you will get 15 months."

 

That doesn't appear to require me getting a Long Stay in my home country - a process I am trying to avoid as the medical cost alone is around 700 quid (I'm not in the UK...)!

 

I appreciate your feedback though - these are the contrasting comments I keep finding depending on who I ask. I'm in Thailand for a week soon and will speak to them on the ground first and see what gives. before applying on my next trip in November. I'm sure it will all come out in the wash. Fun and games eh?

Edited October 14, 2018 by Geordie Munro

[JackThompson]

23 minutes ago, Geordie Munro said:

Their exact words: "You can apply yourself and change tourist visa or 30 days on arrival to Non O in Pattaya Immigration. However, as an agency we can change from the tourist visa or 30 days on arrival to Non On Retirement visa and you will get 15 months."

"Non-OA Long Stay" is a visa-name - so just clarifying so no one gets confused later. 

 

But - yes, if you use an agent in Pattaya (Jomtien office), and pay 10x plus the actual cost for the Non-O 90-day stamp (the sticker-price is 2000 Baht).  Some have managed to get a Non-O 90-day stamp there without an agent, but it is not easy.  They will not do it by the official rules, like they will in Bangkok (Chang Wattana).

 

On the other hand, Pattaya (Jomtien) is reported as great for the "Retirement-Extension" part of the process, which comes next.  Definitely no need to pay an agent for this part, if you meet the financial criteria. 

Each "desk" in the larger Jomtien-office works differently, due to which desks have what volume of agent-business padding their wages.  The retirement desk are rolling in agent-apps, and easy going for in-person applicants.

[Geordie Munro]

6 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

But - yes, if you use an agent in Pattaya (Jomtien office), and pay 10x plus the actual cost for the Non-O 90-day stamp (the sticker-price is 2000 Baht).  Some have managed to get a Non-O 90-day stamp there without an agent, but it is not easy.  They will not do it by the official rules, like they will in Bangkok (Chang Wattana).

That's great - much appreciated getting a heads-up on that. I was wondering what the huge mark-up was for as it doesn't seem that tough to do it on your own (I've been an expat for over 30 years so I am used to dealing with bureaucracy when needing to get paperwork sorted).

 

I looked into getting the 'Retirement' visa where I live but that ridiculous expense just to get a medical certificate actually makes the entire total cost MORE than what it would be getting in done by an agent on the ground...

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by Geordie Munro

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, Geordie Munro said:

I looked into getting the 'Retirement' visa where I live but that ridiculous expense just to get a medical certificate actually makes the entire total cost MORE than what it would be getting in done by an agent on the ground...

Yes, and another option on the "stay as retired" path (for the benefit of others, if you are set), is the ability to get an initial Non-O Visa in Savannakhet, Laos without a medical or police report.  In other consulates, you may need those two things, but can use Thai versions (much cheaper than your home-country).  The financials required are the same - 65K/mo income, or 800K in the bank (but can be your home-country bank), or a combination totaling 800K.

 

An entry with this "90-day Non-O" visa allows you to go straight to a retirement extension, applying in the last 30-days of the permitted-stay.

[koratkarlos]

At Korat immigration they would not process a 90 day non immigrant single entry visa based on retirement.  They told me to go to Laos.  So without an agent you may want to ask your local immigration directly for advice.

[Krankies fan club]

Is it possible to leave Thailand and return using a re-entry permit after obtaining a one year extension to the non immigrant O visa ?

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Krankies fan club said:

Is it possible to leave Thailand and return using a re-entry permit after obtaining a one year extension to the non immigrant O visa ?

You extend your stay not a visa. You can get a single or multiple re-entry permit and travel as much you want to during the year. You only have to be here to apply for a new extension near end of your current one.

[cheshiremusicman]

I would like to get a definitive answer to the length of time you have to have the 800,000 Baht in the bank before renewing the 'Retirement Visa'. Is it 2 or 3 months?

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, cheshiremusicman said:

I would like to get a definitive answer to the length of time you have to have the 800,000 Baht in the bank before renewing the 'Retirement Visa'. Is it 2 or 3 months?

To apply for a extension stay based upon retirement (not a visa) the 800k baht needs to be in bank for 60 days for the first extension and then 3 months after that.

[cheshiremusicman]

Thank you. That confirms what I thought was the case. 

[Naamblar2014]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

To apply for a extension stay based upon retirement (not a visa) the 800k baht needs to be in bank for 60 days for the first extension and then 3 months after that.

I'm a bit confused.  Not about the timing but about if it is in your own country bank or Thai bank for seasoning. 

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Naamblar2014 said:

I'm a bit confused.  Not about the timing but about if it is in your own country bank or Thai bank for seasoning. 

It has to be in a Thai bank.

[roobaa01]

gday,

 

1. the conversion process from 30 days or the like to non-o to extension of stay is not as easy as described for someone prefers an agent to handle the matter for 15 k

 

2. 800 k to be in the acc in thailand on the when applying tm86 plus the proof money came from abroad.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[Naamblar2014]

42 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It has to be in a Thai bank.

Thanks ubonjoe
I have for many years been renewing my extension of stay based on marriage and kept money in a Thai bank for that.  Just confused about a comment earlier about ext based on retirement by Jack Thompson. Maybe he was referring to non -oa long stay.

Anyway I will be returning home shortly rather than renewing my extension this year mainly because my passport is due to expire.  I decided to go home and do that and also drivers license etc rather than renewing passport here.

So a little similar to the op. I will plan to enter on 30 day exempt and then go to Laos and get a multi entry non o which I could then apply for ext based either on marriage or retirement.  Could you see any issues with that approach?

 

Wanted to add,  it maybe important to note that I also plan to enter into the Kingdom on a one way ticket (IE no return or onward flight) so will likely arrive at Don Muang

Edited October 15, 2018 by Naamblar2014
add info

[JackThompson]

12 minutes ago, Naamblar2014 said:

Just confused about a comment earlier about ext based on retirement by Jack Thompson. Maybe he was referring to non -oa long stay.

Above, I was referring to a Non-O Single-Entry Visa obtained in Savannakhet, Laos (in cases where one's local immigration office is un-helpful). 

A Non-OA Long-Stay is only available in your home-country - not in Laos.

But for either of those, Non-Thai funds are OK.

 

But, when dealing with an Immigration Office in Thailand - for either a Non-O 90-day stamp or an Annual Extension of stay - money in a Thai bank is required.

[Markbrock]

Many, many thanks UJ and JT for helping to clarify things for me .. it's v confusing to a newbee like me!

 

My understanding of my two options from the information provided is as follows:

 

1. Enter Thailand via Visa Exempt 30-days as a UK citizen, then attend the Chang Wattana immigration office in Bangkok (in person) whilst there is still 20-days remaining (to be on the save side), complete Form TM.87 for the foreigner, who enters into Thailand without a visa, provide passport and completed departure care Form TM.6, provide two passport photos, provide a guarantee letter from a Thai bank in Thai language, a copy of my bank savings book (which they will issue me when I open the account) showing in excess of 800,000 Bt, show evidence that the money was transferred into the account from overseas, (it only has to be in the bank for 1-day) and the Chang Wattana immigration office will issue me with a Non-Immigrant O 90-day visa. After 60 days has elapsed, I can then apply for a 1-year extension for retirement purposes after with proof that in excess of 800,000 Bt has been in my account for at least 60-days.

 

2. Pay for a visa agent 20,000+ Bt to complete the above process for me, though I have to attend with them in person so I'm wondering whether I need them or not? Are there any risks not using one if attending Chang Wattana immigration office?

 

Can you confirm my understanding is right or correct me if I have got anything wrong?

 

Remaining questions:

 

1. Can I get a copy of Form TM.87 and Form TM.6 online?

 

2. Do I need a medical certificate for the retirement extension? Anything else? If so, where should I go to get one? I could get one in the UK just prior to departing so that this would be less than 90-days old when used to extend the Non-O visa for retirement purposes?

 

3. Can I complete the Non-O extension in Phuket, or do I need to return to Bangkok to complete this?

 

4. What is the safest Thai bank to use who will also be helpful in providing a guarantee letter in Thai language?

 

5. If I use an agent, are Thai Visa Expert and Siam Legal both trustworthy and professional? Or would you suggest any other? 

 

6. If using an agent, at what point in the process should I be paying them for the service?

[ubonjoe]

You can do the application at Phuket immigration. 

From a post did by member today that did it at Phuket. The only difference is that he had a tourist visa so he used a TM86 form.

Quote

Ubon Joe - Thank you for your advice on changing my visa from Tourist to Retirement Non-O using Form TM86 here locally at the immigration office in Phuket. It worked, I now have the visa which is valid until 15 Dec 2018.

1. Download: TM87 Application For Non Immigrant Visa You will already have a TM6 departure card you will get on entry to the country that you need a copy of for the application.

2. No medical certificate is needed.

3. You will do everything at Phuket immigration.

4. All the major Thai banks are good. 

5/6. You do not need an agent.

 

 

 

[Geordie Munro]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You can do the application at Phuket immigration. 

From a post did by member today that did it at Phuket. The only difference is that he had a tourist visa so he used a TM86 form.

1. Download: TM87 Application For Non Immigrant Visa You will already have a TM6 departure card you will get on entry to the country that you need a copy of for the application.

2. No medical certificate is needed.

3. You will do everything at Phuket immigration.

4. All the major Thai banks are good. 

5/6. You do not need an agent.

 

 

 

This might be a daft question ubonjoe but is there an obvious place to get these forms completed in Thai? I live in an Arabic-speaking country and they have typists planted at desks alongside govt bodies who do this all day for about 200baht a time. Same in Thailand (not in Arabic obviously!)? 

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Geordie Munro said:

This might be a daft question ubonjoe but is there an obvious place to get these forms completed in Thai?

There is no requirement to complete them in Thai. Immigration accepts them in English. Near some immigration offices there are shops that do photos and copies that will help with completing forms for small fee.

[Elkski]

Very good thread.  Why do I seem to have a form of " visa dyslexia"?

The different visa names don't seem to be stored in memory.  Is it okay age or what?   

If Pattaya is so corrupt it should be easy for big joke to crack down.   

[Markbrock]

Many thanks UJ. just to be sure, are you saying I can complete the whole process at Phuket immigration? Moving from 30-day exempt entry to 90-day Non-Immigrant visa (funds in Thai bank for 1-day). Then, 60 days later go back to Phuket Immigration and get the 1-year retirement extension? All in Phuket and without an agent? And, are you saying there is no risk that they may not provide this service for exempt entry? I only ask this as I remember JT saying that each Immigration office sets their own rules?

 

Finally, are banks helpful in providing "a guarantee letter in Thai language," which is covered in the in the link you kindly provided to the Immigration Bureau web page. Will they do this for me if I go into a major bank to open an account and deposit funds?

 

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Markbrock said:

Many thanks UJ. just to be sure, are you saying I can complete the whole process at Phuket immigration? Moving from 30-day exempt entry to 90-day Non-Immigrant visa (funds in Thai bank for 1-day). Then, 60 days later go back to Phuket Immigration and get the 1-year retirement extension? All in Phuket and without an agent? And, are you saying there is no risk that they may not provide this service for exempt entry? I only ask this as I remember JT saying that each Immigration office sets their own rules?

 

Finally, are banks helpful in providing "a guarantee letter in Thai language," which is covered in the in the link you kindly provided to the Immigration Bureau web page. Will they do this for me if I go into a major bank to open an account and deposit funds?

 

Yes it can all be done at Phuket immigration without a problem. They will do it for a visa exempt entry.

You should check with Phuket immigration to find out anything else they require to do it.

No need for an agent.

No problem to get the letters required at a bank. They will know what is needed.

 

[Markbrock]

Thank so much you UJ, I think that answers all of my Qs!

With best wishes

Marko

[Markbrock]

Hi again UJ, I've just noticed that the Immigration Bureau web page link you provided has a breadcrumb trail a Monk, Nun, Priest, etc.

 

Home > Service  > Change visa > Change visa - FOR MONK, NUN, PRIEST STUDYING DHARMA IN THAILAND

 

And the link that has a breadcrumb trail related to Retirement

 

Home > Service  > Change visa > Change visa - FOR RETIREMENT PURPOSES -- 50 YEARS OLD

 

Anything for me to be concerned about or is this just a web admin error?