Educators worry teaching system in the country ‘breaking down’

By CHULARAT SAENGPASSA 
THE NATION

 

 

Preoccupation with other factors is affecting quality say experts.
 

Teacher educators are re-examining their role in response to what they see as universities becoming increasingly focused on “money matters” rather than nurturing the best potential teachers. 

 

“We are not in a position to seriously screen new students anymore. Frankly speaking, we recruit every applicant these days,” a lecturer at one of the Rajabhat universities said at the First Thai Teacher Education Forum on October 10.

 

“Forget about the idea of recruiting only those with the talent and determination to serve well as teachers.” 

 

 

Another participant at the forum, who works for the Pibulsongkram Rajabhat University, said state-run institutes of higher education are now keen to accept as many students as possible because the number of students is a key factor in budget allocation. 

 

“Even if our current capacities can handle just 60 students, we recruit all 90 applicants because additional resources will come our way later. But such decisions undeniably affect the quality of educational services,” he said. 

 

A lecturer from another Rajabhat university also disclosed that his institute had even accepted students who applied for a seat one month after their preferred programme had started. 

 

Some participants at the forum requested anonymity from media to avoid any negative effects from their comments. 

 

Assistant Professor Athapol Anunthavorasakul from Chulalongkorn University said that based on what he learned at meetings of the Teachers Council of Thailand, he believes the country lacks a solid database to categorise teachers based on their academic fields, as well as their numbers |and the shortage of teachers in each field.

 

A participant at the forum said he had majored in teaching English to secondary students but was once told to take a job at a primary school. 

Athapol noted it was widely believed that the quality of teachers would determine the quality of students.

 

“So, what about the quality of institutes producing teachers?” he asked. 

 

According to him, Thailand has long relied on foreign concepts and systems in preparing its teacher education. 

 

In the beginning, Thailand’s teacher education was modelled after Britain’s. Decades later, it took after the United States’ system. 

 

“Then in the past decade, we have talked about the Finland model,” Athapol pointed out.

 

He said a study by Finnish researchers found Thailand’s teacher-training institutes had not conducted research directly addressing teacher development, classroom development and the relevance of teachers in the context of the country or the world.

 

Professor Hannele Niemi, a research director at the Helsinki University’s Faculty of Educational Sciences, also joined the forum to highlight what institutes that train Thailand’s trainers should do.

 

Her team has studied the faculties of education at three Thai universities – Chulalongkorn, Silpakorn and Kasetsart. 

 

Athapol said the points raised by the Finnish research team reflected what has happened in Thailand’s teacher education circles. 

 

“Without research on Thai educators, I cannot see what my proper role as an educator is. I think I am more like a mentor or a lecturer for my students,” he said. 

 

He said teacher-training institutes were also prone to just follow whatever relevant rules the authorities had decreed. 

 

“We are like foremen. We have not played a role in designing the rules or criteria in teacher production,” he pointed out. 

 

He now saw that reality as presenting a big challenge to making big changes for the better. 

 

“Teacher-training institutes have been isolated for so long. We have not had any real voice to say what the country should do if they want to reform the country’s educational sector,” Athapol said. 

 

Chatree Faikhamt from Kasetsart University’s Faculty of Education said it was high time that teacher-training institutes reconsidered their role and clearly defined their missions. 

 

“Check what we can do. And before we make our voices heard, we need to ensure that we have a base of solid knowledge in order to speak up,” he said. 

 

Kwansuang Atibodh, a former lecturer at Chulalongkorn University and now a keen observer of Thai education, encouraged lecturers at teacher-producing institutes to speak up. 

 

“Do not focus on just producing teachers and doing what others tell you to do. Find a turning point so that you can help usher Thailand in the right direction,” he said. 

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30356480

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-10-16

"...Educators worry teaching system in the country ‘breaking down’..."

 

Many, including myself, would argue that it has already broken down.

 

I have told this story several times on TVF, but it is still relevant, so...

 

Many years ago I saw a TV interview with the late Lee Kwan Yew (spelling) where he was asked if he feared for Singapore's future in light of her neighbours larger size and wealth of natural resources. He smiled, looked into the camera, and asked "what are their education systems like?"

 

It is good to see people from the teacher-training institutes speaking up, but the problems go way deeper than mere training; the whole system is rotten to the core and needs to be reformed via chainsaw.

 

The equation here is quite simple; if a country has a good education system and a well-educated,  adaptable workforce they will have a good future no matter what is thrown at it. If a country does not have a good education system, a well-educated and adaptable workforce, then their future is bleak and will be stuck forever in the 'Third-World' category.

 

Apologies Thailand, you are in the latter, 'Third-World' category.

 

Thailand needs the political will to appoint a good Education Minister and shield him/her from all the other nonsense of Thai politics. That person needs to remove hundreds (if not thousands) of staff at the Ministry of Education, and where replacements are required, hire good people and pay them properly (up to and including international people if/where needed).

 

Thailand's single greatest strategic threat to its future sovereignty and prosperity is the Ministry of Education; reform or die.

 

Yes, it is that bad and that serious...

 

 

Edited October 15, 20187 yr by Samui Bodoh

Before education reforms can even begin, let alone take hold, they will need to battle and overcome certain social mores and norms. The most notable is the concept of krieng jai -- that god-awful social construct which permits the punishment of anyone who questions their elders or superiors. Then there is the blatant and seemingly wholly acceptable practice of paying for results -- a part of the corruption inherent in Thai society that is simply mind-boggling. Add to that the system of not permitting any student to fail, another mind-boggling concept, and you have an enormous task ahead of you. 

Without proper social equality there can be no improvement. With no controls on corruption there will always be problems. When the leader of a military coup can enforce the learning of his '12 core values' into all junior schools the system is doomed.

1 hour ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"...Educators worry teaching system in the country ‘breaking down’..."

 

Many, including myself, would argue that it has already broken down.

 

I have told this story several times on TVF, but it is still relevant, so...

 

Many years ago I saw a TV interview with the late Lee Kwan Yew (spelling) where he was asked if he feared for Singapore's future in light of her neighbours larger size and wealth of natural resources. He smiled, looked into the camera, and asked "what are their education systems like?"

 

It is good to see people from the teacher-training institutes speaking up, but the problems go way deeper than mere training; the whole system is rotten to the core and needs to be reformed via chainsaw.

 

The equation here is quite simple; if a country has a good education system and a well-educated,  adaptable workforce they will have a good future no matter what is thrown at it. If a country does not have a good education system, a well-educated and adaptable workforce, then their future is bleak and will be stuck forever in the 'Third-World' category.

 

Apologies Thailand, you are in the latter, 'Third-World' category.

 

Thailand needs the political will to appoint a good Education Minister and shield him/her from all the other nonsense of Thai politics. That person needs to remove hundreds (if not thousands) of staff at the Ministry of Education, and where replacements are required, hire good people and pay them properly (up to and including international people if/where needed).

 

Thailand's single greatest strategic threat to its future sovereignty and prosperity is the Ministry of Education; reform or die.

 

Yes, it is that bad and that serious...

 

 

....and the rather surface concern is about 50 years too late. 

Closing the barn door long after the horse has bolted.

All very Thai.

 

Mai phen rai.

Thailand Multiple issues..

 

One of the central pillars of the Finnish success is equity. The differences between educational institutions are minimal. Some would argue that this is possible due to Finland's small population, nevertheless students are offered a high quality education whichever school they attend. If we come back to Thailand the differences between schools are huge. If they weren't, why would tea money be a recurring news headline? OBEC would appear to promote competition between schools through its OBEC awards, but that's perhaps a rant for another day.

 

Although measurement of Thailand's tuition school/ additional paid for supplementary teaching industry is problematic due to the implications that transparency would have on the collection of tax, Thailand's position at the top of the pile for participation in extra tuition further exacerbates the inequalities between and within schools along socio-economic lines. Bottom line is... who pays wins.

 

Dexlowe's distaste for the cultural norm of difference to age is, I believe, spot on the mark. Improvements in practice will, in part, come from the new winds of change with those entering the profession bring. If those winds of change face not only the macro politics of Thai culture but also the micro politics of the school, change will be retarded. Case in point, collaboration in PLCs, in which the participants have differential power based on age, are never going to yield the so desperately needed change.

 

Other issues remain but it will be certainly interesting to see how these issues are played out over the next couple of days at the seminars in Bangkok.   

They can dream on and have as many "forums" on this subject as they like. Simple truth is that the changes needed would not be palatable as the present system is so ingrained and those who work within this section are on a good gig leeching lots out of it in one way or another. It is also true that many universities here are businesses really and are mainly interested in bums on seats, especially now and in the foreseeable future as student numbers are going down due to lower birth rates...only going to get more serious on the money front.

Another problem that Thai schools have is that some teachers have other jobs and rarely attend classes, often setting work through social media. My 17 year old Thai daughter who speaks very good English, told me that her English teacher only attended class 3 times last term but gave her a score of 2.5. However, the other English teacher, actually from England, who teaches English through setting activities and concentrates on communication, was not allowed to give students a grade. His methods were frowned upon although an excellent teacher and he was asked to leave at the end of term because the school "ran out of money"!

Sent from my Lenovo A3000-H using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

35 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

....and the rather surface concern is about 50 years too late. 

Closing the barn door long after the horse has bolted.

All very Thai.

 

Mai phen rai.

+1

It's already broken down. Has been for several years.

5 minutes ago, lucifer666 said:

It's already broken down. Has been for several years.

Ahhh….make that several generations!

2 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"...Educators worry teaching system in the country ‘breaking down’..."

 

Many, including myself, would argue that it has already broken down.

 

I have told this story several times on TVF, but it is still relevant, so...

 

Many years ago I saw a TV interview with the late Lee Kwan Yew (spelling) where he was asked if he feared for Singapore's future in light of her neighbours larger size and wealth of natural resources. He smiled, looked into the camera, and asked "what are their education systems like?"

 

It is good to see people from the teacher-training institutes speaking up, but the problems go way deeper than mere training; the whole system is rotten to the core and needs to be reformed via chainsaw.

 

The equation here is quite simple; if a country has a good education system and a well-educated,  adaptable workforce they will have a good future no matter what is thrown at it. If a country does not have a good education system, a well-educated and adaptable workforce, then their future is bleak and will be stuck forever in the 'Third-World' category.

 

Apologies Thailand, you are in the latter, 'Third-World' category.

 

Thailand needs the political will to appoint a good Education Minister and shield him/her from all the other nonsense of Thai politics. That person needs to remove hundreds (if not thousands) of staff at the Ministry of Education, and where replacements are required, hire good people and pay them properly (up to and including international people if/where needed).

 

Thailand's single greatest strategic threat to its future sovereignty and prosperity is the Ministry of Education; reform or die.

 

Yes, it is that bad and that serious...

 

 

BRAVO

My wife is a kindergarten school teacher - excellent scoring master degree etc. BUT. she is - was - totally unaware of anything that happened outside of thailand. Never heard of the 9/11 or anything that we would consider 'big' news. 

 

What I am getting at is that you can have a fantastic schooling system, but if you ignore teaching anything - or learning about anything - about outside of Thailand you are equally up doo-doo creek.

22 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

My wife is a kindergarten school teacher - excellent scoring master degree etc. BUT. she is - was - totally unaware of anything that happened outside of thailand. Never heard of the 9/11 or anything that we would consider 'big' news. 

 

What I am getting at is that you can have a fantastic schooling system, but if you ignore teaching anything - or learning about anything - about outside of Thailand you are equally up doo-doo creek.

+1 Richard. My wife is from Prasat, Surin, 12 miles from Cambodia, yet knows nothing about the Khmer Rouge and what they did.

My Thai son did several years of high school in Singapore, therefore excellent every day exposure to student centered methods..

 

He was in one of the first batches of Thai students to complete the then new 5.5 year bachelor degree in education. The new degree does contain some student centered earning methodology.

 

The students had to complete several long-term work experience stints in Thai high schools. For my son every work-experience stint made him more and more negative about Thai education.

 

The worst; with a buddy he was assigned to a very big famous high school in Bkk. The headmistress was aware of the curriculum the 2 boys were completing and she was well aware that my son had studied high school in Singapore and she made announcement about all of that to large meetings of teachers.

 

Bottom line - a very large group of teachers had meetings then went unannounced to the headmistress office and forcefully insisted that the headmistress promise that she would never again mention, forever, anything about student centered learning. Headmistress was frightened of the mob and she agreed.

 

Son tried to, in a small way, encourage his students to ask questions. The mob of teachers told him directly to stop.

 

He was assigned to another school and scolded by his university for causing trouble and his GPA suffered. 

 

A long way to go.

 

Yes teachers in all countries should attend activities to reinforce their knowledge and gain new knowledge. Should be part of the system.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Dexlowe said:

Before education reforms can even begin, let alone take hold, they will need to battle and overcome certain social mores and norms. The most notable is the concept of krieng jai -- that god-awful social construct which permits the punishment of anyone who questions their elders or superiors. Then there is the blatant and seemingly wholly acceptable practice of paying for results -- a part of the corruption inherent in Thai society that is simply mind-boggling. Add to that the system of not permitting any student to fail, another mind-boggling concept, and you have an enormous task ahead of you. 

Great post. It will take generations to rectify those issues. 

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Educators worry teaching system in the country ‘breaking down’

5 hours ago, webfact said:

“Do not focus on just producing teachers and doing what others tell you to do. Find a turning point so that you can help usher Thailand in the right direction,” he said. 

Considering that Thailand spent about 4.4% of their GDP for education and Singapore spent 3.2%, needless to say that the system is broken and urgent need to fixing. The Education Ministry is bloated and wasteful leaving much less for the real purpose of education. 

57 minutes ago, scorecard said:

My Thai son did several years of high school in Singapore, therefore excellent every day exposure to student centered methods..

 

He was in one of the first batches of Thai students to complete the then new 5.5 year bachelor degree in education. The new degree does contain some student centered earning methodology.

 

The students had to complete several long-term work experience stints in Thai high schools. For my son every work-experience stint made him more and more negative about Thai education.

 

The worst; with a buddy he was assigned to a very big famous high school in Bkk. The headmistress was aware of the curriculum the 2 boys were completing and she was well aware that my son had studied high school in Singapore and she made announcement about all of that to large meetings of teachers.

 

Bottom line - a very large group of teachers had meetings then went unannounced to the headmistress office and forcefully insisted that the headmistress promise that she would never again mention, forever, anything about student centered learning. Headmistress was frightened of the mob and she agreed.

 

Son tried to, in a small way, encourage his students to ask questions. The mob of teachers told him directly to stop.

 

He was assigned to another school and scolded by his university for causing trouble and his GPA suffered. 

 

A long way to go.

 

Yes teachers in all countries should attend activities to reinforce their knowledge and gain new knowledge. Should be part of the system.

 

 

 

+1, Great post. And, it is sad for your son...

 

Years ago I was a teacher-trainer in another SE Asian country and ran into the same nonsense over and over again.

 

There is an identifiable cycle at play; a new teacher arrives at a school brimming with new ideas. The 'old' teachers, threatened by new ideas, gang up on the Principal and put a stop to it. The 'new' teacher, forced to waste endless time attaining certificates, endorsements, and other administrative BS in order to get a promotion, some influence at the school and a raise, keeps quiet until they have amassed enough power at the school to force change. However, by the time that 'new' teacher has amassed enough sway to change things, they are the ones threatened by the new, 'new' teacher. The way to break the cycle is to empower the Principal/Headmaster, making them responsible for the output of the school and giving them the power to enact change at the local level. AND, link their salary and chance for promotion to the school's improvement. Yes, there is a danger that schools will become "teach to the test" factories, but given the dismal state of Thai education currently, I'd risk it.

 

I can't argue with the posters who blame the overall Thai culture for this mess, but change begins with small steps, usually in small places. Yes, the "krieng jai" system needs to weaken and disappear, but waiting for that to occur before reforms is another way of saying that they should do nothing.

 

I come back to what I said in my OP;

 

Thailand; reform your education system or fade into insignificance.

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 20187 yr by Samui Bodoh

My first employment in Thailand was at Rajabat, Nahkon Pathom.  My first question to every Thai "teacher" was, "what is the grading system?"  Everyone said the same thing, "It is up to you."  The two volunteer teachers, both from the USA, said their grades started at 60 and in increments of 5 points for each part of the grade.  I recorded my grading system, based on theirs, in my grade/attendance book.  All students were informed and it was written on the whiteboard, and a whole period was taken to explain the system.  Although all passed the first semester, a few had struggled.  Two members of the staff complained to the head of the department at the end of the semester, after the exams, saying my grading was too hard.  That, even though all had passed. The head talked with me and even told the person who was the head of the Rajabat, that there was no reason that there should be complaints from Thai teachers as I had done everything above board and transparently.  Those two had told her that their grades started at 40 and could not understand why my system started so high.  That upset her as she saw the falseness in their attitude.  Incidentally, one had got a doctorate degree in English Literature from a university in Florida but had trouble with understanding literature from England.  The outcome was that the two led a campaign that saw me being fired even though students complained about that move.  The two concerned, I was told, had "lost face" because they had not been truthful from the beginning and resented the fact that I had many international publications to my name while they had none, amongst other things.  I went on my merry way.  I wrote this just to show the sad state of affairs that the teachers in Thailand suffer and live under because the educational system needs to be abolished and replaced by a good, strong system but that should start at a complete overhaul of the teacher training system.  Also, get rid of things like students being forced to join the Boy scouts, etc., because none seem to know anything about its founder, Lord Baden Powell, its motto, Be Prepared, or even how to tie knots, amongst other things, and all stuff concerning Thainess.

 

'nuf sed

First the British system.

Then the US system.

Now the Finnish system.

Well now, wouldn't that be a tad disturbing?

I guess some people still adhere to the former systems, not really helping good results.

5 hours ago, webfact said:

In the beginning, Thailand’s teacher education was modelled after Britain’s. Decades later, it took after the United States’ system. 

 

“Then in the past decade, we have talked about the Finland model,”

FAILURE.

You can take the education system out of society, but you can't take society out of the education system. There is a much broader and less apparent cause for Thailand's consistent education failure, no matter how many systems are modeled from other societies.

The Thai elitist minority want to maintain the so-called "Thainess" in their governance of the Thai Peoples in order to preserve their oligarchical-styled society. It's no surprise that adoption of educations systems from developed democratic nations fail.

With the former Government it was a new education Minister every other week I'm surprised the same hasn't happened with this Government, as a means of deflecting Criticism 0f their track record, on a brighter note Education in Thailand has never been there highest achievement and neither it will be until proper funding, international teachers introduced and improved teacher training to world class standards are met, other than that it's as easy as ABC. 

The Thai education system is like everything else in Thailand riddled with corruption and incompetenc.the grade system sucks.they should try the African system where they walk for miles to go to school and learn and most can speak and write English.oh and also have the attitude wanting to learn.thailand I'd the hub of lazy dunces.i know of many farang that came here and end up packing up and going back so their children get a proper education which proves the point.

23 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

FAILURE.

You can take the education system out of society, but you can't take society out of the education system. There is a much broader and less apparent cause for Thailand's consistent education failure, no matter how many systems are modeled from other societies.

The Thai elitist minority want to maintain the so-called "Thainess" in their governance of the Thai Peoples in order to preserve their oligarchical-styled society. It's no surprise that adoption of educations systems from developed democratic nations fail.

Part of the 'Thainess' is meeting and seminars where there is no discussion, Q&A or participant comment whatever, just listen and class where appropriate.

 

Why? Because it would be rude to ask questions of a more senior person.  Thainess at work.

 

 

2 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

My wife is a kindergarten school teacher - excellent scoring master degree etc. BUT. she is - was - totally unaware of anything that happened outside of thailand. Never heard of the 9/11 or anything that we would consider 'big' news. 

 

 

but she heard of 7/11 and that is all that matters

6 hours ago, webfact said:

“We are not in a position to seriously screen new students anymore. Frankly speaking, we recruit every applicant these days,”

And so what?  They have a larger pool of potential teachers.  And anyway, many kids entering university don't have a clear idea what they want to do until they are over half way through the program.  Those that may have been 'screened out' may make better teachers that those who are deemed 'naturals' by some administrator and later turn out not to have the desire or motivation to follow-though with the program. 
What they actually need is a sea-change in the teaching programs themselves. 

17 minutes ago, car720 said:

Lee was a great man in more ways than one.

Yes he was but the education Renaissance was actually from another visionary education minister Yong Nyuk Lin. He was the first education minister under Lee. He uplifted the teacher training quality with Lee’ guidance. The pioneer ministers like Yong and Goh (FM) contributed much to Singapore successes. Thailand is a Kakistocracy with a non visionary non elected leader. 

5 hours ago, Dexlowe said:

Before education reforms can even begin, let alone take hold, they will need to battle and overcome certain social mores and norms. The most notable is the concept of krieng jai -- that god-awful social construct which permits the punishment of anyone who questions their elders or superiors. Then there is the blatant and seemingly wholly acceptable practice of paying for results -- a part of the corruption inherent in Thai society that is simply mind-boggling. Add to that the system of not permitting any student to fail, another mind-boggling concept, and you have an enormous task ahead of you. 

White devil speak with forked tongue--- where is white devil land? said a Thai academic

1 hour ago, happy chappie said:

The Thai education system is like everything else in Thailand riddled with corruption and incompetenc.the grade system sucks.they should try the African system where they walk for miles to go to school and learn and most can speak and write English.oh and also have the attitude wanting to learn.thailand I'd the hub of lazy dunces.i know of many farang that came here and end up packing up and going back so their children get a proper education which proves the point.

All my friends with kids are leaving Thailand soon or have already left. I know nobody who would want to put their child in a Thai school. If you have any knowledge or experience of how things work in schools or society in general, it's very difficult to be positive.

I teach in the Thai program of my school a few hours a week. I have taught lots of Thai teachers' children over the years. They are almost always at the bottom of the class in academic ability.

That says a lot about society and education in this country. Teachers can't even teach or nurture their own kids. Do they even know they should?