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Trump sends Pompeo to Riyadh over Khashoggi; Saudis may blame official


webfact

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2 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

Make no mistake, Obama or any previous POTUS would not have cancelled contracts or penalised SA to any degree . However they would have made it quite clear that such behaviour was intolerable

Very true, many world leaders will be using this to push for reform, but sadly Trump and Putin will not be.

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8 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Trump in a way was right to say rogue killers when a State goes rogue against human rights.

But that's not part of Trump's human nature to understand or care.

Underlying possible Saudi admission of complicity in alleged Khashoggi's death must be overwhelming evidence that the Turks have, likely collaborated by US, etc. intelligence intercepts related to the Saudi operation against Khashoggi.

 

 

I don't know that there's actually such a thing as a going-rogue-against-human-rights, but guess the rogue state reference was needed in order to be somehow relevant to the OP and Trump's statement? And hey, wasn't SA chairing the relevant UN body a while back?

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5 hours ago, Srikcir said:

What are the odds that all of the "interrogators," family members, co-workers who knew of their mission and lower to middle echelon government managers are dead?

I hope we see some quick Saudi defectors - they would greatly add to the complete picture of the planned and execution of Jamal's capture.

But don't go to the US Embassy. Trump will return them "for the sake of justice." Go to the Swiss Embassy or some other Neutral Country that currently has no political commitments to Saudi Arabia.

 

I would guess there's quite a hefty sum of Saudi money in Swiss banks' coffers.

 

Saudi Investment Company

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Investment_Company

 

 

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5 hours ago, Brunolem said:

That is the crucial part, because whatever the murder scenario, they are going to have to explain what happened to the body!

 

Meanwhile, we are still waiting for diplomats expulsions...after all Turkey is part of NATO, so why should a murder in this country be treated differently than an attempted murder in the UK?

 

And of course Saudi Arabia remains free to bomb civilian targets in Yemen without anyone being offended...a nice world we are living in...

 

Skripal was a UK citizen, attacked on UK soil. The UK is arguably the US's closest ally, while Russia is a long standing adversary.

 

Khashoggi was a SA citizen, attacked in Turkey. Turkey's current relations with both the US and NATO are troubled, and SA is one of the US's nominal allies in the ME.

 

So not quite same same, regardless if the usual pro-Russian posters insist otherwise.

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41 minutes ago, malibukid said:

the orange pumpkin encouraged and enabled this by slamming the press back home.  the Saudis and the Russians have declared open season on journalist.

 

Persecution of journalists, by both Russian and SA authorities is nothing new, and predates Trump. While I appreciate Trump believing himself to be the axis around which reality revolves, there's no reason to contribute to this illusion.

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8 hours ago, NanLaew said:

First the alleged Russian GRU attempting to assassinate defectors in the UK and now a Saudi hit-squad taking out a dissident voice in Turkey? Both appear to have been planned without regard to any sort of discretion and the follow up so far, from the Russian side anyway, fails on all counts of plausibility deniability. The Saudi's aren't far behind when a team of 15 on diplomatic passports fly in and out either side of Khashoggi's disappearance.

 

I am not so much bothered about the actual deaths than I am about the perpetrators apparent disregard at being caught. Despite suggestions of subsequent buffoonery and incompetence in the cover up response, I am concerned that both the Russians and the Saudis always planned to simply shrug and say "So what?" This regardless of any very public 'intervention' by Secretary Pompeo and the grandiloquent truimvirate of EU nations (including the UK) demanding an investigation with “the utmost seriousness.” It all means very little with a huge Saudi arms trade masquerading as a check on the Iranians regional influence as a backdrop.

 

The Russians and the Saudis (and the Iranians) have something that the west needs. This is the new world order?

 

I don't know that both instances are all that similar. But from the angle suggested - denials, lame deflections, disregard for backlash, and contempt of criticism - there could be a similar motive involved, as in sending a message.

 

In both cases, attacks serve to cow dissidents and traitors, both abroad and at home. A somewhat similar effect on potential political rivals, and maybe an extra bonus of support from hardliners. With regard to foreign relations, it plays along the same lines - we-can-do-that-and-we-will, while denying involvement so that the other side got a way out, short of outright confrontation.

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Quote

"The king firmly denied any knowledge of it," Trump told reporters after speaking with King Salman. "He didn't really know, maybe - I don't want to get into his mind but it sounded to me - maybe these could have been rogue killers. Who knows?"

 

Maybe them imaginary rogue killers are in league with that imaginary 400-pound hacker. Best investigate.

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One question seems ignored....why did the victim, who claimed to be radical opponent of the riche and powerful Saudi Royal House....why did the victim,  knowing he could be in danger.....why on earth did he enter on invitation (but apparently freely) the Saudi Consulate ? .....What was he expecting ? ...was he looking to obtain something ? ,....why did he enter that Consulate knowing that it could not be advised for somebody with his positions in the media against the Saudi Royals. He obviously was not a foolish man.

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57 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

One question seems ignored....why did the victim, who claimed to be radical opponent of the riche and powerful Saudi Royal House....why did the victim,  knowing he could be in danger.....why on earth did he enter on invitation (but apparently freely) the Saudi Consulate ? .....What was he expecting ? ...was he looking to obtain something ? ,....why did he enter that Consulate knowing that it could not be advised for somebody with his positions in the media against the Saudi Royals. He obviously was not a foolish man.

It seems that he was going to the consulate to retrieve divorce papers.

 

Yet, he could have gone there with someone else, just as a precaution...

 

On the other side of the equation, the arrival of a dozen Saudi "agents" at the consulate, to subdue an harmless journalist, seems strange, because both unnecessary and not exactly discreet.

 

It was obvious that the journalist not coming out of the consulate would raise questions.

 

It would have been much better to let him go out and then snatch him with a van and take him away...

 

Now, everything seems possible considering the character who is de facto running SA, the same one who last year kidnapped a number of super wealthy Saudis in order to extract huge ransoms from them...not to mention his former kidnapping of the Lebanese prime minister!

 

And why would he change his ways since nobody will dare to do anything?

 

Pompeo is going in SA, probably not to look for explanations, but to provide them!

 

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2 hours ago, Brunolem said:

It would have been much better to let him go out and then snatch him with a van and take him away...

Very good point, I have no doubt that they wanted to interrogate him or sedate and smuggle him out of the country (rendition), murder was probably not there intention, interrogation is highly unlikely because there was probably very little he knew other than the names of those supplying him with information, more probably rendition so they could put him in a Saudi jail.

 

He was wearing a wire tap so they do know a lot of what happened. 

 

What ever happened there is no way the guy can be brought back to life, it was unacceptable, may be we the British, Americans and others of the first would should have done more in the past to make it clear such actions are totally unacceptable, this has to be done using "Diplomacy" not mouthing off on twitter...

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The man entered the Saudi embassy which is Saudi Land on Turkish Soil . He failed to return and all the evidence seems to point to a crime (murder). the Turkish Authorities believe they have solid evidence he was murdered.

He was killed in a Consulate. On Turkish Soil. This is a clear violation of International Law. And a crime anywhere. The trail must lead pretty close to or to the Top of the SA Leadership.

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9 hours ago, riclag said:

I trust any POTUS to do the right thing! Through thick and thin

A little vague and generic statement.

If domiciled US civilians or even American citizens were killed inside the Saudi Embassy in Washington D.C. (or in Canada or in the UK) and MBS says the murder was done by rogue assassins in an effort to disassociate MBS' responsibility, do you trust Trump to take the same tack as he did with Kashoggi's murder?

That is, accept any Saudi excuse in consideration of trade relationship between the two countries as being is supreme over human rights and criminal law?

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2 hours ago, stevenl said:

And what is the right thing in your opinion? Making sure business keeps going uninterrupted or something else?

The all Khashoggi story would have barely made the news under other circumstances.

 

The Americans, and notably their dear leader, needed something to put pressure on the Saudis, because they are not happy with the price of oil (see Trump multiple tweets about this issue).

 

They couldn't use the war in Yemen because...well...they actively support it.

 

So this Khashoggy murder is like a gift falling from the sky, a gift they helped to wrap by staying quiet after their intelligence agencies intercepted communications showing that something was up against the journalist.

 

They probably informed Turkey, in exchange for the release of the pastor, who then feigned outrage after the facts.

 

Now the US is entering into its favorite game of "do as I want or else" with Saudi Arabia, just the latest in a very long line of countries punished by the Land of the Free...

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On 10/16/2018 at 5:32 AM, webfact said:

U.S. President Donald Trump speculated "rogue killers" may be responsible.

Four of the 15 "interrogators" have been part of MBS' security detail.

One, Maher Mutreb, was also an intelligence officer with ties to MBS.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/15-saudi-suspects-travelled-istanbul-were-close-mbs-report-149446239

A second man from the squad was a senior crimes scene investigator in Saudi Arabia.

A third appeared to be a special forces soldier who worked as a bodyguard to Mohammed bin Salman, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/10/10/turkish-newspaper-names-15-saudis-claims-involved-khashoggi/

If these men were rogues, then the government itself has to be as well.

 

cp.JPG

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Bs from Trump as usual.

all those evidence and even a kid can realize that Khashoggi was killed intentionally!

Looks like Trump is trying to protect the MBS. sure he does that after all those sword dance with Saudis.

15 rogue killers came from Saudi Arabia with an arabian plane!

they accidentally, butchered the guy into pieces too!

Saudis should pay for this.

 

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Here's the State Dept. Official statement about the meeting between Pompeo and the Clown Prince:

"Secretary of State Michael R. Pompeo met today with Saudi King Salman in Riyadh. The Secretary thanked the King for Saudi Arabia’s strong partnership with the United States. The Secretary and the King discussed a number of regional and bilateral issues. The Secretary also thanked the King for his commitment to supporting a thorough, transparent, and timely investigation of Jamal Khashoggi’s disappearance."

https://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2018/10/286654.htm

Clearly the Trump administration is determined to get to the bottom of this no matter what the consequences.

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On 10/16/2018 at 7:51 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

Correct!

I read in an article if the Saudis would reduce their oil production they could manage to raise the world wide oil price to a higher level than it ever was. Who is willing to risk that scenario - because of one dead man?

This is not about the death of one man. This is about violations of universal law by heads of states.

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On 10/17/2018 at 6:35 PM, wabothai said:

This is not about the death of one man. This is about violations of universal law by heads of states.

I get the idea. But my point is: Who gives a <deleted> about anything if billion dollar business is at risk? And let's not forget the security in that whole region.

 

I am sure someone will fine somebody to blame for whatever happened. And lots of important people will accept that they have to accept a BS story to keep things nice and smooth. Because the alternative is worse.

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On 10/17/2018 at 6:45 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

I get the idea. But my point is: Who gives a <deleted> about anything if billion dollar business is at risk? And let's not forget the security in that whole region.

 

I am sure someone will fine somebody to blame for whatever happened. And lots of important people will accept that they have to accept a BS story to keep things nice and smooth. Because the alternative is worse.

Like i said, fall guys are standing in line. 

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15 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I get the idea. But my point is: Who gives a f$#% about anything if billion dollar business is at risk? And let's not forget the security in that whole region.

 

I am sure someone will fine somebody to blame for whatever happened. And lots of important people will accept that they have to accept a BS story to keep things nice and smooth. Because the alternative is worse.

you are right... unfortunately.

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Who in their right mind can possibly take this "rogue" explanation serious?

 

the simple question have to be:

 

What was these "rogues" doing inside the consulate in the first place?

 

No doubt Trump will make a fuss and fake some concern and offer prayers to the family. then it will be all swept under the carpet like everything else

 

Trump: Liar, fake Christian, fake President.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, tingtongtourist said:

Who in their right mind can possibly take this "rogue" explanation serious?

 

the simple question have to be:

 

What was these "rogues" doing inside the consulate in the first place?

Who wants to know the truth? Who wants to ask a "simple question" if the "wrong" answer to that simple question will destabilize the whole region, possibly bring the oil price higher than it ever was and cost billions in business?

 

This world is not run by honest and just people who fight the bad guys. And that is nothing new with Trump, it's like that since forever. We can dream about accountability but that is and will be a dream for a long long time.

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