Jump to content

Trump sends Pompeo to Riyadh over Khashoggi; Saudis may blame official


webfact

Recommended Posts

Trump sends Pompeo to Riyadh over Khashoggi; Saudis may blame official

By Tulay Karadeniz and Roberta Rampton

 

2018-10-15T200814Z_1_LYNXNPEE9E1DI_RTROPTP_4_SAUDI-POLITICS-DISSIDENT.JPG

A security official holds barriers during the arrival of Saudi officials at Saudi Arabia's consulate in Istanbul, Turkey October 15, 2018. REUTERS/Murad Sezer

 

ANKARA/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia is preparing to acknowledge the death of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi in a botched interrogation, CNN and the New York Times said on Monday, after U.S. President Donald Trump speculated "rogue killers" may be responsible.

 

Trump dispatched Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to meet King Salman over the case that has strained the Americans' relationship with the Saudis, carefully cultivated by the U.S. president.

 

Khashoggi, a U.S. resident, Washington Post columnist and leading critic of the powerful Saudi crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, vanished after entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul two weeks ago to get marriage documents. Turkish officials say they believe he was murdered there and his body removed.

 

Citing two unidentified sources, CNN reported on Monday that Saudi Arabia is preparing a report that would acknowledge Khashoggi was killed as the result of an interrogation that went wrong. The Saudi government could not be reached immediately for comment on the CNN report.

 

“I heard that report, but nobody knows if it’s an official report,” Trump told reporters, without elaborating.

 

The New York Times, citing a person familiar with the Saudi plans, reported the crown prince had approved an interrogation or rendition of Khashoggi back to Saudi Arabia. The Saudi government, it said, would shield the prince by blaming an intelligence official for the bungled operation.

 

The case has provoked an international outcry against Saudi Arabia, the world's top oil exporter, with more media and business executives pulling out of a planned investment conference there this month.

 

While organizers said Monday the conference will go on, the Saudis cancelled an annual diplomatic reception in Washington set for later this week.

 

Many members of the U.S. Congress, which has long had a testy relationship with Saudi Arabia, have issued strong criticism of the kingdom over the case.

 

Turkish authorities have an audio recording indicating that Khashoggi was killed in the consulate, a Turkish official and a security source told Reuters, and have shared evidence with countries including Saudi Arabia and the United States. They provided no further details.

 

Saudi Arabia has strongly denied killing Khashoggi and has denounced such assertions as "lies," saying he left the building shortly after entering.

 

"The king firmly denied any knowledge of it," Trump told reporters after speaking with King Salman. "He didn't really know, maybe - I don't want to get into his mind but it sounded to me - maybe these could have been rogue killers. Who knows?"

 

The U.S. president gave no evidence to support the theory. Democratic lawmakers criticized Trump for using the term "rogue killers".

 

"Been hearing the ridiculous ‘rogue killers’ theory was where the Saudis would go with this," Democratic U.S. Senator Chris Murphy said on Twitter.

 

"Absolutely extraordinary they were able to enlist the President of the United States as their PR agent to float it."

 

KING ORDERS INVESTIGATION

Trump called Pompeo on Sunday night and asked him to have face-to-face meetings with the Saudi leaders, State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert said.

 

Trump said Pompeo may go to Turkey after Saudi Arabia.

 

Turkish police investigators entered the Istanbul consulate late on Monday. A Turkish diplomatic source had earlier said a joint Turkish-Saudi team would search the building - the last place Khashoggi was seen before he vanished on Oct. 2.

 

"It has been 13 days since the event, so surely proving some of the evidence might be difficult" the Turkish official said.

 

A Saudi official, not authorized to speak publicly, told Reuters that the king had ordered an internal investigation based on information from the joint team in Istanbul.

 

Trump has threatened "severe punishment" if it turns out Khashoggi was killed in the consulate, although he has ruled out cancelling arms deals worth tens of billions of dollars with Saudi Arabia. European allies have urged "a credible investigation" and accountability for those responsible.

 

Khashoggi, a familiar face on Arab talk shows, moved to the United States last year fearing retribution for his criticism of Prince Mohammed, who has cracked down on dissent with arrests.

 

A pro-government Turkish daily published preliminary evidence last week from investigators who it said had identified a 15-member Saudi intelligence team that arrived in Istanbul on diplomatic passports hours before Khashoggi disappeared.

 

The Saudi consulate referred Reuters to authorities in Riyadh, who did not respond to questions about the 15 Saudis.

 

Saudi Arabia has responded to Western statements by saying it would retaliate against any pressure or economic sanctions "with greater action," and Arab allies rallied to support it.

 

The Saudi riyal fell to its lowest in two years and its international bond prices slipped over fears that foreign investment could shrink amid international pressure.

 

The Saudi stock market had tumbled 7.2 percent over the previous two trading days but rebounded 2 percent on Monday.

 

Concern over Khashoggi's disappearance has prompted media organizations and a growing number of guests to pull out of a "Davos in the Desert" investment conference set for Oct. 23-25, which has become the biggest show for investors to promote Prince Mohammed's reform vision.

 

(Additional reporting by Yara Bayoumy, Lesley Wroughton, Doina Chiacu in Washington, Rob Cox of Breakingviews, Steve Holland in Macon, Georgia; William James in London, and Dominic Evans in Istanbul; Writing by Stephen Kalin and Doina Chiacu; Editing by Mary Milliken, Alistair Bell and Howard Goller)

 
reuters_logo.jpg
-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-10-16
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 84
  • Created
  • Last Reply
56 minutes ago, webfact said:

Saudi Arabia is preparing to acknowledge the death of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi in a botched interrogation, CNN and the New York Times said on Monday, after U.S. President Donald Trump speculated "rogue killers" may be responsible.

Trump in a way was right to say rogue killers when a State goes rogue against human rights.

But that's not part of Trump's human nature to understand or care.

Underlying possible Saudi admission of complicity in alleged Khashoggi's death must be overwhelming evidence that the Turks have, likely collaborated by US, etc. intelligence intercepts related to the Saudi operation against Khashoggi.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Trump in a way was right to say rogue killers when a State goes rogue against human rights.

But that's not part of Trump's human nature to understand or care.

Underlying possible Saudi admission of complicity in alleged Khashoggi's death must be overwhelming evidence that the Turks have, likely collaborated by US, etc. intelligence intercepts related to the Saudi operation against Khashoggi.

 

Actually comes across as trump is setting up justification for minimal, if any, action against KSA. Remember what trump recently said about Putin's extrajudicial killings, basically "not my business". USA leader of the free world - LOL

Link to post
Share on other sites

First the alleged Russian GRU attempting to assassinate defectors in the UK and now a Saudi hit-squad taking out a dissident voice in Turkey? Both appear to have been planned without regard to any sort of discretion and the follow up so far, from the Russian side anyway, fails on all counts of plausibility deniability. The Saudi's aren't far behind when a team of 15 on diplomatic passports fly in and out either side of Khashoggi's disappearance.

 

I am not so much bothered about the actual deaths than I am about the perpetrators apparent disregard at being caught. Despite suggestions of subsequent buffoonery and incompetence in the cover up response, I am concerned that both the Russians and the Saudis always planned to simply shrug and say "So what?" This regardless of any very public 'intervention' by Secretary Pompeo and the grandiloquent truimvirate of EU nations (including the UK) demanding an investigation with “the utmost seriousness.” It all means very little with a huge Saudi arms trade masquerading as a check on the Iranians regional influence as a backdrop.

 

The Russians and the Saudis (and the Iranians) have something that the west needs. This is the new world order?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Countries have interests, they don't have friends. (not sure who said that) sums it up.

 

Lots of countries want to continue to do business with Saudi Arabia. And Saudi Arabia is an important country in that region.

That means nobody in "the west" has much interest to change this just because of a little murder.

 

If western politicians would be concerned about human rights then they would have stayed away from Saudi Arabia since forever.

 

Now they need one or more scapegoats to make sure all that business does not get down the drain.

Business as usual, nothing to see here...

Link to post
Share on other sites

it is now being reported that the Saudis are prepared to admit to killing Khashoggi, but hey will claim it was an accident, they will say he slipped and fell on a knife.

Several times. 

And Trump will say, "No Murder" " Nooo Murder" and while on the subject "No collusion also" "Noooo collusion"  

Link to post
Share on other sites

it is now being reported that the Saudis are prepared to admit to killing Khashoggi, but hey will claim it was an accident, they will say he slipped and fell on a knife.
Several times. 
And Trump will say, "No Murder" " Nooo Murder" and while on the subject "No collusion also" "Noooo collusion"  
Apparently they're saying it was an interrogation gone wrong! That should satisfy Trump.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Link to post
Share on other sites

As many of us know by now, Trump will say or do anything to achieve an end. When a man is totally devoid of ethics or morality, he has no compass. It is all about the end for him. The means are irrelevant. And as president, he harbors the delusion that no matter what he says, we will believe him. How wrong he is!

 

As far as the Saudis go, finally they were caught. We are talking about one of the filthiest, and most heinous governments on the planet. Prince Bin Salman is a thug and a gangster. Down with Wahhabism.

Link to post
Share on other sites

... a botched interrogation....   yep!

It took the Arabs almost two weeks to come up with that laughable excuse not to mention....'rogue' killers from the orange man which deflects attention away from the Saudis.

Trump will love it.

Oil pumps are good to go!

Case closed.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

it is now being reported that the Saudis are prepared to admit to killing Khashoggi, but hey will claim it was an accident, they will say he slipped and fell on a knife.

 

Several times. 

 

And then his body was dismembered with a bone saw!  Accidentally!

Link to post
Share on other sites

What are the odds that all of the "interrogators," family members, co-workers who knew of their mission and lower to middle echelon government managers are dead?

I hope we see some quick Saudi defectors - they would greatly add to the complete picture of the planned and execution of Jamal's capture.

But don't go to the US Embassy. Trump will return them "for the sake of justice." Go to the Swiss Embassy or some other Neutral Country that currently has no political commitments to Saudi Arabia.

Link to post
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

And then his body was dismembered with a bone saw!  Accidentally!

That is a violation of Islamic Law - and likely the manner in which the body parts were disposed.

Saudi Arabia holds itself out as a religious world leader of the Islamic faith and protector of Islamic Law.

It has then potentially discredited its Islamic 'moral grounding' to direct religious retributions that may further inflame Shia vs Sunni and more intensify Middle East violence, including Yemen and Syria.

There could by a stretch be a religious (if not political) whiplash against the MBS regime itself.

Meanwhile back in the US: Trump has emboldened MBS to act with impunity

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/411502-trump-has-emboldened-mbs-to-act-with-impunity

It will have to be Congress that holds Trump accountable for his foreign policy with MBS. But we'll have to wait until after the Mid-Term elections to see if Republicans can actually do their job as a check and balance against the Executive Branch.

Link to post
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

And then his body was dismembered with a bone saw!  Accidentally!

That is the crucial part, because whatever the murder scenario, they are going to have to explain what happened to the body!

 

Meanwhile, we are still waiting for diplomats expulsions...after all Turkey is part of NATO, so why should a murder in this country be treated differently than an attempted murder in the UK?

 

And of course Saudi Arabia remains free to bomb civilian targets in Yemen without anyone being offended...a nice world we are living in...

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am no fan of Trump but in this case I think it's wrong to pretend that only Trump is the guy who lets the Saudis get away with murder.

How about all the other presidents and prime ministers in this world? How many of them came forward that from now on they won't do any business with Saudi Arabia anymore? No big weapon deals anymore, not big investments, etc.?

And how many did and do openly criticize all the human rights violations which exist there since forever? It seems most of those leaders somehow don't see all these problems as long as business is fine. And then there is Iran and the enemy of my enemy must obviously be my friend.

I think it's called Realpolitik

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am no fan of Trump but in this case I think it's wrong to pretend that only Trump is the guy who lets the Saudis get away with murder.

How about all the other presidents and prime ministers in this world? How many of them came forward that from now on they won't do any business with Saudi Arabia anymore? No big weapon deals anymore, not big investments, etc.?

And how many did and do openly criticize all the human rights violations which exist there since forever? It seems most of those leaders somehow don't see all these problems as long as business is fine. And then there is Iran and the enemy of my enemy must obviously be my friend.

I think it's called Realpolitik

 

To a certain extend I agree with you.

 

One of the problems we have here is that at the moment countries are openly assassinating others, no covert operations anymore. Russia and now SA have been caught red handed, in both cases it would have been known they would be caught. Nobody cares anymore, only in words.

Another difference is that this president is not even pretending to take this serious.

Link to post
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am no fan of Trump but in this case I think it's wrong to pretend that only Trump is the guy who lets the Saudis get away with murder.

How about all the other presidents and prime ministers in this world? How many of them came forward that from now on they won't do any business with Saudi Arabia anymore? No big weapon deals anymore, not big investments, etc.?

And how many did and do openly criticize all the human rights violations which exist there since forever? It seems most of those leaders somehow don't see all these problems as long as business is fine. And then there is Iran and the enemy of my enemy must obviously be my friend.

I think it's called Realpolitik

 

How many of them came up with a theory that exonerates the Saudi leader?

 

Just the one.

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Another difference is that this president is not even pretending to take this serious.

Is that good or bad?

 

Lots of people die and are murdered all over the world everyday. And obviously we can all pretend that this is so bad and something has to be done. But in reality, how much do we care if one or a hundred people die somewhere in a country far away?

 

So in this case a Saudi journalist died. And obviously we are all shocked that this could have happened - or at least we pretend to be shocked.

I think we are shocked about that about as much as we are shocked when we hear Russia or the USA are messing around with some other country's election. Nobody is really shocked. We know it happens and we know it will happen in the future and we know we can't do anything about it. The only think we can do is pretend we are shocked and pretend we care.

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, nahkit said:

How many of them came up with a theory that exonerates the Saudi leader?

 

Just the one.

I am sure many came up with some kind of theory which allows them to continue business as usual.

Trump was the only one who said it loud, that does not mean he was/is the only one who though about this.

Should we be shocked that Trump is willing to ignore this alleged murder?

I don't think so. Many other will be as willing as Trump to ignore it - as long as some fishy reason is found to let them look the other way. In that way Trump is more honest than many others.

Link to post
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am no fan of Trump but in this case I think it's wrong to pretend that only Trump is the guy who lets the Saudis get away with murder.

 

 

Who here has said it's ONLY Trump?

 

The discussion centers around Trump because that's who is president now and that's who will end up making policy decisions surrounding this incident. 

 

To wander off into a discussion about what some other president did would be going off topic, not to mention "whataboutism".

 

 

Quote

Many other will be as willing as Trump to ignore it - as long as some fishy reason is found to let them look the other way.

 

If that happens, we should hold their feet to the fire as well.

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Now we find out exactly who has who bent over a barrel. 
Anyone old enough to remember parking in line on even or odd days in order to get their ration of gasoline in the 1970s already knows the answer.  :dry:

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Countries have interests, they don't have friends. (not sure who said that) sums it up.

"America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests."

  -Henry Kissinger

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, connda said:

Now we find out exactly who has who bent over a barrel. 
Anyone old enough to remember parking in line on even and odd day in order to get their ration of gasoline in the 1970s already knows the answer.  :dry:

Correct!

I read in an article if the Saudis would reduce their oil production they could manage to raise the world wide oil price to a higher level than it ever was. Who is willing to risk that scenario - because of one dead man?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interrogation gone wrong by rouge agency, that could be a diplomatic solution, or a start.

 

Apart from this there will be international calls for the Saudi's to improve human rights, though Saudi Arabia is not the only country that has repressive laws on free speech in particular for those who justly criticise their government or monarchy.  :sad: 

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, connda said:

Now we find out exactly who has who bent over a barrel. 
Anyone old enough to remember parking in line on even or odd days in order to get their ration of gasoline in the 1970s already knows the answer.  :dry:

Anyone au courant enough to know that energy efficiency, increased US production of petroleum, and the big oil reserves established by various nations knows that the Saudis clout isn't what it used to be. And all the needs to done is to remove the sanctions on Iran and the shortage vanishes.

Link to post
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Interrogation gone wrong by rouge agency, that could be a diplomatic solution, or a start.

 

Apart from this there will be international calls for the Saudi's to improve human rights, though Saudi Arabia is not the only country that has repressive laws on free speech in particular for those who justly criticise their government or monarchy.  :sad: 

the orange pumpkin encouraged and enabled this by slamming the press back home.  the Saudis and the Russians have declared open season on journalist.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What is sickening is not the fact that the Saudis will get off scott free , realpolitic dictates that.

It is the haste in which the president of the USA throws his paymasters a bone .

Make no mistake , Obama or any previous POTUS would not have cancelled contracts or penalised SA to any degree . However they would have made it quite clear that such behaviour was intolerable , not just shrugged it off. Draining the swamp.....my arse !

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

What is sickening is not the fact that the Saudis will get off scott free , realpolitic dictates that.

It is the haste in which the president of the USA throws his paymasters a bone .

Make no mistake , Obama or any previous POTUS would not have cancelled contracts or penalised SA to any degree . However they would have made it quite clear that such behaviour was intolerable , not just shrugged it off. Draining the swamp.....my arse !

"They would have might it quite clear that such behaviour was intolerable" by tolerating it?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...