problem with copies of lease contract & passport of condo owner

[pkspeaker]

Just got the note written by the immigration officer translated.. in addition to getting these docs signed by the owner of the condo, they have to be presented to the immigration police, preferably by the condo owner-and i guess at that point the IP will give me some kind of form to add to the packet of forms.. but if the condo owner cannot present these docs 'maybe' I can do it for him.. but they are not sure as that is up to the immigration police!   so when i go back in less than 2 months the whole thing could be rejected! and I would have to leave the country and get a new non-imm. somewhere as they will not give another extension .. yea starting to think that they are starting to tell us not to rent from foreigners, especially those that do not live here! 

[ParadiseLost]

1 hour ago, pkspeaker said:

starting to think that they are starting to tell us not to rent from foreigners, especially those that do not live here!

When these guys bought the condos the laws (report a foreigner staying) were already in place. So if they did not inform you of the requirement then your beef should be with them, not immigration?

 

The reason immigration clamped down was because so many owners flaunted the law. The only time immigration can check is when an extension is processed. This may sound trite but really if you move your problem can also be solved.

 

I agree it should not affect you if your landlord is delinquent but that is one of the many traps awaiting people when they rent from foreigners who do not feel they need to comply with (any) laws.

[varun]

It is clear that all these additional requirements are being made up,

because the officer checking your documents is cagey about a foreigner living overseas, renting a condo to you.

Suggest that you speak with an immigration supervisor to clear this up.

[pkspeaker]

I did speak to the immigration supervisor, that was the only way I was able to get the 2 months.. and why we had to wait all day until evening (at least they have some nice restaurants and the Thai market for the wife)  .. not so frustrated with the Imm. officers now that I understand what the problem was, which is not easy since the immigration people speak like NO english and my Thai isn't so good.. now I understand why my wife wants to go 2 weeks before my 2 month extension expires.. i'm starting to think it just a better idea to move .. no more renting from condo owners that live abroad - Thai or foreigner. 

Edited October 18, 2018 by pkspeaker

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, pkspeaker said:

Just got the note written by the immigration officer translated.. in addition to getting these docs signed by the owner of the condo, they have to be presented to the immigration police,

The landlord is not the only one who can report you - you are the "possessor", so can report yourself - but some offices were reported to be trying to force landlords to come in person.  It sounds like this is the case, here.  

 

Not sure if you might change the contract to your wife's name, then do what another poster recommended:

 

On 10/16/2018 at 4:47 PM, ukrules said:

The easy way to do this is to get your wife to be the house master and fill out the TM30 which registers you as living there, then just fill out a TM28 for yourself and say you live with her, which you do.

Worst-case, she has to pay a fine for late-reporting (1600 - 2000 Baht), but you get your TM-30 receipt, and that is done.

 

In my case, I had a TM-30 already (updated consistently for a year+) and the family-extension folks still gave me a run-around for more and more landlord-docs until it was made impossible.
 

1 hour ago, pkspeaker said:

now I understand why my wife wants to go 2 weeks before my 2 month extension expires..

Go 30-days before.  At most offices you can apply 1-month early.  Hopefully, if you keep bringing what they ask for, they will give up trying to get agent-money out of you.  Worst-case, there is the Non-O ME Visa from Savannakhet - then see if they are any better 15+ months later.

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, ParadiseLost said:

When these guys bought the condos the laws (report a foreigner staying) were already in place.

But never enforced, until recently.

 

3 hours ago, ParadiseLost said:

So if they did not inform you of the requirement then your beef should be with them, not immigration?

According to the law, the "possessor" of the property - a long-term renter - can do the TM-30 report for themselves.  Of course, we all know how little what the law actually says has to do with any of this.

 

3 hours ago, ParadiseLost said:

The reason immigration clamped down was because so many owners flaunted the law. The only time immigration can check is when an extension is processed. This may sound trite but really if you move your problem can also be solved.

 

I agree it should not affect you if your landlord is delinquent but that is one of the many traps awaiting people when they rent from foreigners who do not feel they need to comply with (any) laws.

But in context - laws no one knew existed, because they hadn't been enforced for decades, until people started getting fined. 

 

I have no issue with the reporting laws - they have every right to know where foreigners are in Thailand.  Home-visits to verify are OK with me as well. 

 

But the way this is being used selectively - specifically to deny extensions to people married to Thais - is clearly wrong.  As part of the process, the police are going to go to his home and verify he and his wife live there together.  What above-board reason could possibly justify what they are putting him through?

I have yet to hear of agent-submitted applications having this issue, which I think speaks more to the real motivation for this "problem."

[pkspeaker]

ok tx i'll take them in early if he ever sends them..

[pkspeaker]

just an update I have received new info after condo owner talked to some guy - that's about the only way we get info on matters such as these ????????

 

If the foreigner condo owner cannot present himself in person to the immigration police, he has to sign 2 copies of every page in his passport and 2 copies of the property docs (chanote, etc.) AND the has to draw a line and sign on top of the line his signature and below the line it has to write 'for mr. name name non-imm. visa' or something like that.. or he signs below the line and writes on top of the line.. something like that.. can someone verify exactly how it's supposed to be done as I assume the slightest error and immigration police will reject it .. tx again for all the help ????

Edited October 19, 2018 by pkspeaker

[varun]

48 minutes ago, pkspeaker said:

just an update I have received new info after condo owner talked to some guy - that's about the only way we get info on matters such as these ????????

 

If the foreigner condo owner cannot present himself in person to the immigration police, he has to sign 2 copies of every page in his passport and 2 copies of the property docs (chanote, etc.) AND the has to draw a line and sign on top of the line his signature and below the line it has to write 'for mr. name name non-imm. visa' or something like that.. or he signs below the line and writes on top of the line.. something like that.. can someone verify exactly how it's supposed to be done as I assume the slightest error and immigration police will reject it .. tx again for all the help ????

I think it's best to just move - not worth the hassle.

You will have two months to figure out new living arrangements.

[pkspeaker]

i dunno, the condo owner is trying to help and i have a lease and have gone this far already.. if i move i dont get my deposit back and have to make a new deposit, and i'm getting a good rate here and i like this room.. moving would be more money lost than just taking a vacation somewhere and getting a new non-o.. if he was ignoring me then it would be easy, i think by now we almost got it figured out, one more fail and yea i'll probably have to move..

Edited October 19, 2018 by pkspeaker

[moogradod]

On 10/18/2018 at 5:04 AM, JackThompson said:

Since you will be entering with a Non-O Visa, you have already removed the largest potential problem in your path.  Let us know if you have any problems applying for the extension, which can be applied-for in the last 30-days of the 90-days permitted-stay you will get upon entry with your Non-O Visa.

Very much appreciated JackThompson !

My Landlord owns obviously property in Pattaya on a large scale. And he has a very helpful Thai assistant who speaks English perfectly. And I will have all documentation that is possible and money far above of what is necessary to show. So I am optimistic.

 

If nevertheless some problems would occur I will pop up on TV again. I am grateful for the help I receive here. The critical thing with me and my wife is that this extensions MUST work for we will (need) to break up everything behind us.

 

I wish the OP all the very best for sorting out his problem - but it seems to be getting better according to what I read. And sorry for breaking into this thread - it was just because your and my issues (resp. worries) might have been interrelated.

 

What is disturbing nevertheless is the increasingly strict behaviour towards (completely legal) retirees. Even to those married to a Thai Citizen.

 

 

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, pkspeaker said:

just an update I have received new info after condo owner talked to some guy - that's about the only way we get info on matters such as these ????????

 

If the foreigner condo owner cannot present himself in person to the immigration police, he has to sign 2 copies of every page in his passport and 2 copies of the property docs (chanote, etc.) AND the has to draw a line and sign on top of the line his signature and below the line it has to write 'for mr. name name non-imm. visa' or something like that.. or he signs below the line and writes on top of the line.. something like that.. can someone verify exactly how it's supposed to be done as I assume the slightest error and immigration police will reject it .. tx again for all the help ????

My condo-owner did this on docs we used at an attempt for my marriage-based extension.  I didn't know where the line-bit came from, and figured he was just doing it to prevent a misuse of the copies of his ID and property-documents (was nervous about providing these - straight-up refused, at first, until we sent immigration's instructions to him).  This owner was Thai, so perhaps inquired and was told this method - or perhaps is a local-standard.  He put the signature above the line, and "for" info below it.  

 

No comment was made as to how he signed (assume it was OK), but they still denied based on the housebook being too old - such that the owner would need to fly back and get a fresh copy from an amphoe.  I hope they don't pull that one on you - and hope they are polite to your wife, in any case (that bit really ****** me off).

[pkspeaker]

ok so just to finish up the story.. 2 weeks ago the signed documents arrived from the condo owner, he had traveled quite a bit so he wound up having to sign and write (for the....) 70 times! he wasn't too happy about that.  So I take them to the Immigration Police-that one in the chongnonsi/silom area where she told me to go, frontdesk->goto the 3rd floor, I arrive, no take a number, no other people waiting like I expected to see, just some desks with staff working.. I show them the signed docs: They have no idea what I'm talking about.. "really?! but she told me to come here, your supposed to 'approve' it or something.."  I call my wife and she talks to a lady there..no idea .. but she did take a look at the docs and noticed the copy of the housebook was expired, of course it was, it was the one when he bought the condo from 10 years ago.. 

 

2 days before my 2 month extension expires we go back to changwattana with everything and try again, we get the same 2 women, the first one looked over everything and approved it, the condo owners docs were a big stack of signed papers.. I was expecting her to say you have to goto the immigration police again and I was going to get into an argument, but this time they didn't say anything about that  .. so looks like i got the year (just go back 1 more time in 3 weeks "application of stay is under consideration..")  so by the end it took 5 times going to immigration offices before i got my 1 year extension..