problem with copies of lease contract & passport of condo owner

[pkspeaker]

went to renue my marriage visa today, all docs ok BUT the woman there had a problem with the copy of my lease contract & passport of owner(a foreigner who does not live in Thailand) that's what i gave them last year, she said something like 'i don't know..' , it was like she wants proof or something, we took a TM30 form, the house master or possessor is me, so i filled it out.. neither me or my Thai, Thai speaking wife could understand what the <deleted> she wants, its the same address i lived at last year.. gonna go back tomorrow after loosing an entire day getting stuck in traffic and waiting in line.. i asked the condo office if they could give me a letter or something to back up my docs.. they said no .. so basically going back with nothing more than I had today..and in 2 more days my visa will expire

 

There is the first woman you present the docs to and another that sits in desk behind that OKs the packet.. If they refuse again tomorrow can I appeal to a manager or something, complain to my embassy or what   the foreigner who owns the condo i live in would be registered at the land office so they should be able to check that out themselves  anyone else had this type of problem.. totally dismayed 

[ubonjoe]

If it was accepted before it should be accepted again.

I think they are wanting proof that they actually own the condo. That would require a copy of their chanote. Could you contact them about it and request a copy be sent by email to you if they have it available.

Ask for a supervisor and try to explain the situation to them.

[pkspeaker]

OK tx i looke dup what a chanote is, i'll ask him if he has it..

Edited October 16, 2018 by pkspeaker

[ukrules]

I was going to go down the route of getting the owner of the house to fill out the TM30 and then fill out a TM28 (change of address) myself but I figured out that the house master doesn't need to be the owner.

 

The easy way to do this is to get your wife to be the house master and fill out the TM30 which registers you as living there, then just fill out a TM28 for yourself and say you live with her, which you do.

 

This worked in Hua Hin, zero issues, questions or problems. I think she showed an electric bill and said she rented the building from someone else (hence the different name on the electric bill) - they didn't care who owned it.

 

I suspect your issues are complicated due to being your own housemaster and a foreigner who doesn't own the place at the same time.

Edited October 16, 2018 by ukrules

[pkspeaker]

ok tx but the lease is in my name, hopefully the owner emails me a picture of this chanote thing tonight-I would think that would solve the problem for sure, if i can't get anything i'm going to ask for a boss or appeal or something.. the land office is there, if they wanted to check isn't that what the 15 day review period is for? just the lease and a copy of his passport worked last year and its the same address.. do not want to have to go there a third time and i'm running out of time anyways.. if i'm forced out of the country to make a whole new non-imm. i'm going to take names and complain to the my embassy.. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by pkspeaker

[henry15]

My landlady is a lady from Hong Kong.

This is wat Nonthaburi asked

TM30

Pasport,  Landlady

Tabian Ban landlady

Chanotte of the appartement.

Rental contract. I don't have one. And they accepted that.

[JackThompson]

19 hours ago, pkspeaker said:

 the foreigner who owns the condo i live in would be registered at the land office so they should be able to check that out themselves  anyone else had this type of problem.. totally dismayed 

14 hours ago, pkspeaker said:

the land office is there, if they wanted to check isn't that what the 15 day review period is for? 

It's not about really finding out accurate ownership. The cops will come and see you live there, so it's not that, either.  it's about denying apps not submitted with agent-money.  I found this out with a marriage-based application in Jomtien.  Retirement seem to get an easier time - maybe because they are easier for staff to process, or because of the volume of agent-apps has them fat and happy. 

 

The more docs they demanded from the landlord, which I supplied, the more the rules and needed-docs would change to deny the application.  At the end, the landlord (Thai) would need to fly back to the country and go to an amphoe for a "newer" house-book for the condo.  As that wasn't possible, and I was not about to reward them with agent-money for putting the screws to us, and being rude to my wife in the process, I went out for a Multi-Entry Non-O.

 

Hopefully, the breaking-point in HH is lower, and they will let you get it done there in-person, sans-agent (cost 20K to 30K Baht), if you can get the following:

 

Housebook of Condo/Property copy - counter-signed by owner

Chanote of Condo/Property copy - counter-signed by owner

ID of landlord - counter-signed by owner (passport, in your case)

Lease copy

 

Your embassy won't care - not their problem.  And I doubt the agent-system will be touched by the new director of immigration - which is the driving-force making life difficult for us.  But, we can hope he will at least force local offices to stop the unminitaged-bs for in-person applicants, so as to restore some semblance of seeming-legitimacy to the process.

[Cyclone88]

14 hours ago, pkspeaker said:

i'm going to take names and complain to the my embassy.. 

You can take as many names as you wish but it won't help going to your Embassy. 

Do you honestly believe doing that will solve the problem. They will tell you that getting an extension of stay in a foreign country has nothing to do with them.

Good luck, I hope you manage to sort it out.

[Kenny Boy]

52 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

It's not about really finding out accurate ownership. The cops will come and see you live there, so it's not that, either.  it's about denying apps not submitted with agent-money.  I found this out with a marriage-based application in Jomtien.  Retirement seem to get an easier time - maybe because they are easier for staff to process, or because of the volume of agent-apps has them fat and happy. 

 

The more docs they demanded from the landlord, which I supplied, the more the rules and needed-docs would change to deny the application.  At the end, the landlord (Thai) would need to fly back to the country and go to an amphoe for a "newer" house-book for the condo.  As that wasn't possible, and I was not about to reward them with agent-money for putting the screws to us, and being rude to my wife in the process, I went out for a Multi-Entry Non-O.

 

Hopefully, the breaking-point in HH is lower, and they will let you get it done there in-person, sans-agent (cost 20K to 30K Baht), if you can get the following:

 

Housebook of Condo/Property copy - counter-signed by owner

Chanote of Condo/Property copy - counter-signed by owner

ID of landlord - counter-signed by owner (passport, in your case)

Lease copy

 

Your embassy won't care - not their problem.  And I doubt the agent-system will be touched by the new director of immigration - which is the driving-force making life difficult for us.  But, we can hope he will at least force local offices to stop the unminitaged-bs for in-person applicants, so as to restore some semblance of seeming-legitimacy to the process.

So true.

I was forced to go to an agent to gain my retirement visa at Jomtien,despite having everything required.

Every time I brought back what they demanded, they would demand something else.

In the end I gave up when she wanted to see the English Condo owners work permit,which he didn't have. 'He not pay tax!'

She offered to overlook this for a 20k bung.....

 

[PoorSucker]

On Samui I need. 

Copy rental contract. 

Copy owner ID (signed by owner) 

Copy house book (signed by owner) 

 

Doubt a photo of the chanote is enough. 

 

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, PoorSucker said:

Doubt a photo of the chanote is enough. 

It will be worth a try though. But hopefully it will be a scan of it instead of a photo.

The owner is not a Thai so they may not have a house book for the condo.

 

[moogradod]

Stories like this are really very disturbing. I wish everything can be setlled for pkspeaker.

 

The image of friendliness and common sense of the Jomtien Immigration has been one of the reasons to decide to move near Pattaya. Has this changed recently ? I would want to come with a non-immigration-O and extend based on retirement. Live in a condo with foreign ownership for which I have a rental contract already.

 

Or do I really need to consider a Thai Elite Visa just because of preventing hassles that seem to be more likely now in Jomtien ? Need definitely to decide in one month.

 

[moontang]

One question:. If you had already done a TM30, when you arrived, would you have been able to complete the extension on the first try?  Sounds like you were doing it on the fly, and that is a fineable hurdle in several offices.

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, moogradod said:

Stories like this are really very disturbing. I wish everything can be setlled for pkspeaker.

 

The image of friendliness and common sense of the Jomtien Immigration has been one of the reasons to decide to move near Pattaya. Has this changed recently ?

Not for annual retirement-extensions.  No reported issues with those.  They are only making this particular trouble for people married to a Thai - now at several offices.  It seems focused on those who don't own their own condo.

 

4 hours ago, moogradod said:

I would want to come with a non-immigration-O and extend based on retirement. Live in a condo with foreign ownership for which I have a rental contract already. 

If you arrive on a Non-O Visa, no problem to get a retirement-based annual extension if you have the income or bank-money to show.   You save any problems by arriving with a Non-O Visa. 

 

If you arrived on a Tourist entry, you could run into problems requiring 25K or so to an agent to fix - but only getting to your first extension.   After that, 1900 Baht/yr is all that is necessary.

 

4 hours ago, moogradod said:

Or do I really need to consider a Thai Elite Visa just because of preventing hassles that seem to be more likely now in Jomtien ? Need definitely to decide in one month.

Only needed for those under 50 years-old, and cannot be bothered to deal with the alternatives (which can be more of a PITA).  If over 50, and meeting the financial-qualifications, 1900 Baht per-year is all you need to spend.

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, moontang said:

One question:. If you had already done a TM30, when you arrived, would you have been able to complete the extension on the first try?  Sounds like you were doing it on the fly, and that is a fineable hurdle in several offices.

One would think having an up-to-date TM-30 would be the end of the issue - but that is sadly not the case.  This is a separate hurdle created when one attempts to get a family-based extension, after one already has a valid TM-30 (which is required from the get-go).

[DavidB1960]

4 hours ago, moogradod said:

Stories like this are really very disturbing. I wish everything can be setlled for pkspeaker.

 

The image of friendliness and common sense of the Jomtien Immigration has been one of the reasons to decide to move near Pattaya. Has this changed recently ? I would want to come with a non-immigration-O and extend based on retirement. Live in a condo with foreign ownership for which I have a rental contract already.

 

Or do I really need to consider a Thai Elite Visa just because of preventing hassles that seem to be more likely now in Jomtien ? Need definitely to decide in one month.

 

I extended a Non-O last May, based on retirement at Jomtien. Dont know if anything has changed since then but i had only:

Lease contract

Copy owner Blue Book (Thai)

Copy owners ID

+ financials and pspt copies

 

Had no problem.

 

[vinegarbase]

And yet another Farang gets screwed over by Thai immigration for trying to follow the letter of the law. It is really disturbing to continually hear these stories yet people dare say "They are just after the bad guys, if you follow the law you won't have any problems." Nonsense. 

 

I really hope you can find a good solution to meet their demands. 

[BritManToo]

If you have a Thai wife or Thai child, multi non o is the way to go. Gets rid of all this b's from the extension offices.

 

Just my opinion.

[moogradod]

1 hour ago, DavidB1960 said:

I extended a Non-O last May, based on retirement at Jomtien. Dont know if anything has changed since then but i had only:

Lease contract

Copy owner Blue Book (Thai)

Copy owners ID

+ financials and pspt copies

 

Had no problem.

 

Thanks. I can provide everything on your list exept the owner Blue Book (I think) since the owner of my rented condo is a foreigner living in Thailand who owns many condos. I do not know if he has a "Blue Book".

 

In this sense I seem to qualify as a "target" as was stated before ("not owning condo and married to a Thai Wife" - but I am not applying for extension of stay based on marriage. But I can provide a copy of a tabien baan from the owner. My rental contract includes a copy of his passport. I have sufficient financial background so I will be coming with a non-immi-O based on retirement and sort out whatever I need to do for the extension within the first 2 months - be it going myself paying 1.9KTHB or an agent paying whatever or get somehow even a TEV if necessary.

 

I feel a bit sad having to think about these alternatives. My case should be the most simple: Retired, enough money, married to a Thai Wife and rented a condo with a long term contract. Everything as straightforward as can be (according to my thinking only of course) But I would not be surprized if it is not.

[pkspeaker]

we were stuck there all day yesterday and didn't leave until 6.30 .. they gave me a 2 month extension because i told them i couldn't get all this by 2 days.. in 2 months i have to go back with all my docs and these new docs they are requesting that are copies that have to be signed by the condo owner and sent by post here..then in 2 months they said they'd give me the usual 1 year extension.. they did say all this was because the new commissioner and the lady suggested it would be easier if i was renting from a thai condo owner

[pkspeaker]

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

If you have a Thai wife or Thai child, multi non o is the way to go. Gets rid of all this b's from the extension offices.

 

Just my opinion.

but wouldn't you have to do border runs every 3 months?  and after 15 months youd have to get a new non-o

[NanLaew]

10 hours ago, BritManToo said:

If you have a Thai wife or Thai child, multi non o is the way to go. Gets rid of all this b's from the extension offices.

 

Just my opinion.

Agreed.... with the added bonus that it truly gets one more 'out more' as well. Absolutely nothing shameful about having a total LOS reset (and reality check) every 90 days. Anything else is quite frankly bad for ones health IMHO.

[moontang]

43 minutes ago, pkspeaker said:

we were stuck there all day yesterday and didn't leave until 6.30 .. they gave me a 2 month extension because i told them i couldn't get all this by 2 days.. in 2 months i have to go back with all my docs and these new docs they are requesting that are copies that have to be signed by the condo owner and sent by post here..then in 2 months they said they'd give me the usual 1 year extension.. they did say all this was because the new commissioner and the lady suggested it would be easier if i was renting from a thai condo owner

As with the TM30, at least some of this seems to be about nailing foreign landlords for dodging taxes.  Having a landlord, who is very familiar with the TM30 process can be more important than good WIFI.  Many are still in the dark about the whole thing.

[NanLaew]

45 minutes ago, pkspeaker said:

but wouldn't you have to do border runs every 3 months?  and after 15 months youd have to get a new non-o

Aint no bad thing.

[NanLaew]

51 minutes ago, pkspeaker said:

we were stuck there all day yesterday and didn't leave until 6.30 .. they gave me a 2 month extension because i told them i couldn't get all this by 2 days.. in 2 months i have to go back with all my docs and these new docs they are requesting that are copies that have to be signed by the condo owner and sent by post here..then in 2 months they said they'd give me the usual 1 year extension.. they did say all this was because the new commissioner and the lady suggested it would be easier if i was renting from a thai condo owner

Good update from the OP, thanks.

 

Is this at Jomtien Immigration?

 

At least they have been generous with a 2 month extension and if you use EMS post, the document turnaround should be easily done within 3 weeks. Lucky that you have a foreign condo owner who is willing to assist. To the IO who suggested a Thai landlord is easier, there are plenty reports, anecdotal and otherwise where Thai landlords have refused to help, especially with Immigration-related, proof of ownership issues for foreign tenants.

[moontang]

9 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Good update from the OP, thanks.

 

Is this at Jomtien Immigration?

 

At least they have been generous with a 2 month extension and if you use EMS post, the document turnaround should be easily done within 3 weeks. Lucky that you have a foreign condo owner who is willing to assist. To the IO who suggested a Thai landlord is easier, there are plenty reports, anecdotal and otherwise where Thai landlords have refused to help, especially with Immigration-related, proof of ownership issues for foreign tenants.

because they know it will be fine time, and open a can of worms on multiple units for multiple years.

Edited October 17, 2018 by moontang

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, pkspeaker said:

but wouldn't you have to do border runs every 3 months?  and after 15 months youd have to get a new non-o

What Nanlaew says, I enjoy the trips out of country, bus trip, plane journey, all a bit of an adventure and not expensive.

[JackThompson]

12 hours ago, moogradod said:

Thanks. I can provide everything on your list exept the owner Blue Book (I think) since the owner of my rented condo is a foreigner living in Thailand who owns many condos. I do not know if he has a "Blue Book".

 

In this sense I seem to qualify as a "target" as was stated before ("not owning condo and married to a Thai Wife" - but I am not applying for extension of stay based on marriage.

If applying based on retirement, they are not reported to put the screws to you at Jomtien on any of this.  There are different "desks" in that office, with separate queue numbers.  You will not interact with the same staff who are attempting to prevent foreigners married to Thais from getting extensions based on marriage without agent-money.

 

There is nothing to worry about, unless something changes.  Keep an eye on this forum, where any change in that office's retirement-extension policy will be reported very quickly.

 

Quote

But I can provide a copy of a tabien baan from the owner. My rental contract includes a copy of his passport. I have sufficient financial background so I will be coming with a non-immi-O based on retirement and sort out whatever I need to do for the extension within the first 2 months - be it going myself paying 1.9KTHB or an agent paying whatever or get somehow even a TEV if necessary.

Agent = 15K to 25K per-year.  This should include them doing your 90-day reporting for you - but this can be done by your Thai wife visiting the office, by mail, or online.  

 

There are two types of people who use agents - those who don't have the financials (which the agents fake for them) and those who feel the agent-fee is worth saving a couple hours of their time per-year at an immigration office + filling out four 90-day forms.

 

Quote

I feel a bit sad having to think about these alternatives. My case should be the most simple: Retired, enough money, married to a Thai Wife and rented a condo with a long term contract. Everything as straightforward as can be (according to my thinking only of course) But I would not be surprized if it is not.

Since you will be entering with a Non-O Visa, you have already removed the largest potential problem in your path.  Let us know if you have any problems applying for the extension, which can be applied-for in the last 30-days of the 90-days permitted-stay you will get upon entry with your Non-O Visa.

Edited October 18, 2018 by JackThompson

[moontang]

I met several married guys in the extension que in CM.  They stated that they had always done extensions for retirement...now, it is even more obvious why. Apparently, the taxi mob aren't the only ones, who think it is easier to extort someone standing there with a Thai woman.

Edited October 18, 2018 by moontang

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, pkspeaker said:

they did say all this was because the new commissioner

They did this to me in Jomtien, long before the new commissioner. 

 

6 hours ago, pkspeaker said:

they gave me a 2 month extension because i told them i couldn't get all this by 2 days

6 hours ago, NanLaew said:

At least they have been generous with a 2 month extension

"Married to a Thai" can always apply for a 60-day extension to an existing permit-of-stay, provided this has not been done since one's last new-entry to the country.

 

But, in Jomtien, one person reported that they were blocked from even this 60-days by a demand for irrelevant landlord-docs.
 

6 hours ago, pkspeaker said:

but wouldn't you have to do border runs every 3 months?  and after 15 months youd have to get a new non-o

Almost 17 months, if one gets the 60-day extension to one's last entry, made just before the "enter before" date on the Visa.  One can also extend any/all of the other entries by 60-days, if desired, because every entry on the Visa is a fresh entry to the country.