Transfer of ownership of condo

[jiffers]

I own a condo in Pattaya and want to transfer ownership to my partner (not sell). How do I do this and will there be taxes or other fees to pay? Any advice gratefully received.

[Peterw42]

A transfer is a sale as far as the land office is concerned, all the same fees and taxes. (otherwise everyone would say they are transferring to a friend/partner etc, to avoid fees and taxes). It would all be done at the land office. If your partner is a Thai wife and the property is a marital asset (acquired during marriage) she would already be entitled to 50% in a divorce.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Peterw42

[Delight]

16 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

A transfer is a sale as far as the land office is concerned, all the same fees and taxes. (otherwise everyone would say they are transferring to a friend/partner etc, to avoid fees and taxes). It would all be done at the land office. If your partner is a Thai wife and the property is a marital asset (acquired during marriage) she would already be entitled to 50% in a divorce.

 Also

 

If your partner is Thai -then the condo will change from being Foreign owned to Thai owned.

Very difficult to sell if Thai owned.

 

The main Q is what is your motive?

Edited October 22, 2018 by Delight

[jiffers]

15 hours ago, Delight said:

 Also

 

If your partner is Thai -then the condo will change from being Foreign owned to Thai owned.

Very difficult to sell if Thai owned.

 

The main Q is what is your motive?

My partner is Thai (wife), we are not married but have been together for 10 years. I have left the condo to her in my Thai will but, as she often points out, I can change this at any time.

If I have to pay the same fees and taxes as for a sale,it will not be worthwhile.

Thanks for your comments.

[andrew2005]

Delight; I am thinking of buying a condo in my partner' s name to avoid any problems with inheritance when I die. My Thai partner may wish to sell it in future and live upcountry. Why do you write it would be hard to sell if owned by a Thai?   Is there an advantage if I buy it in my own name?

                 The 2 aims here are to have a home while I am alive and to pass it on to my partner after I die. Thanks in anticipation of your reply.

[LukKrueng]

1 hour ago, andrew2005 said:

Delight; I am thinking of buying a condo in my partner' s name to avoid any problems with inheritance when I die. My Thai partner may wish to sell it in future and live upcountry. Why do you write it would be hard to sell if owned by a Thai?   Is there an advantage if I buy it in my own name?

                 The 2 aims here are to have a home while I am alive and to pass it on to my partner after I die. Thanks in anticipation of your reply.

every condo building can be owned up to 49% by foreigners. if the unit is under your Thai wife, and by the time she wants to sell it 49% of the units are already owner by foreigners, she can only sell the unit to a thai person, so basically limiting the opportunity to sell. If the unit is under your name then it is in the foreigners' quota and can be sold to anyone- Thai or foreigner. I'm not sure about joint ownership though.

[Delight]

4 hours ago, jiffers said:

My partner is Thai (wife), we are not married but have been together for 10 years. I have left the condo to her in my Thai will but, as she often points out, I can change this at any time.

If I have to pay the same fees and taxes as for a sale,it will not be worthwhile.

Thanks for your comments.

The most important thing is to ensure that the name of the beneficiary and the name of the administrator is the same name.

 

 

[Delight]

3 hours ago, andrew2005 said:

Delight; I am thinking of buying a condo in my partner' s name to avoid any problems with inheritance when I die. My Thai partner may wish to sell it in future and live upcountry. Why do you write it would be hard to sell if owned by a Thai?   Is there an advantage if I buy it in my own name?

                 The 2 aims here are to have a home while I am alive and to pass it on to my partner after I die. Thanks in anticipation of your reply.

 LukKrueng has outlined the main reason.

 It is always going to be difficult to bequeth a condo.  To a  Thai or to a Farang.

The prime difficulty are maintenance fees. Typically a widow does not have the resources to finanace them.

(The Farang does not have the money to finance the FET )

The simple answer is to sell it as soon as she becomes a widow.

When I say sell I really mean  drop the price dramatically -if necessary.

If your will is contructed properly ,then the condo will never be in your widow's name -as a beneficiary.

It will always be in the your widows name -as the administrator.

It can remain in such a state for years.

 

 

 

[baansgr]

8 hours ago, jiffers said:

My partner is Thai (wife), we are not married but have been together for 10 years. I have left the condo to her in my Thai will but, as she often points out, I can change this at any time.

If I have to pay the same fees and taxes as for a sale,it will not be worthwhile.

Thanks for your comments.

"I have left the condo to her in my Thai will but, as she often points

 out, I can change this at any time"

 

If that's the reason for transferring it's a very worrying statement 

 

[GTgrizzly]

7 minutes ago, baansgr said:

"I have left the condo to her in my Thai will but, as she often points

 out, I can change this at any time"

 

If that's the reason for transferring it's a very worrying statement 

 

Yes I agree

It seems her priority is to get the condo into her name before anything untoward happens

Sounds like she has a plan in the pipeline 

[KittenKong]

3 hours ago, Delight said:

The prime difficulty are maintenance fees. Typically a widow does not have the resources to finanace them.

Many buildings have common fees of just 10,000B a year or so. Owning such a unit works out vastly cheaper than renting somewhere.

 

I think the problem with many Thai owners is that they tend to get in debt, or gamble their money away, or squander it on nonsense and so they end up obliged to sell their assets. There's little anyone can do to prevent that.

[KittenKong]

7 hours ago, andrew2005 said:

I am thinking of buying a condo in my partner' s name to avoid any problems with inheritance when I die.

What happens if she dies first, or if you separate?

[how241]

No way to get around paying the transfer fee.

[Delight]

8 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

Many buildings have common fees of just 10,000B a year or so. Owning such a unit works out vastly cheaper than renting somewhere.

Typically when the farang dies -the income stream dies.

It Is  for that reason the murder rate is so low.

So 10,000 Baht per year is cheap or not if you have no income.

If you are a widow of a  Brit -typically you get almost nothing.

However if you are a widow of a German (and were married in Germany ) then a typical German  widow's pension is 40,000 Baht per month.

Very nice!

Not many lady Thais know this.

 

[rak sa_ngop]

On 10/23/2018 at 6:13 PM, how241 said:

No way to get around paying the transfer fee.

Are you sure about this?

 

I remember reading that it may be possible to ADD another name to the chanote for a small fee (under the table???) in certain Land Registry Offices. I would love to find out if anybody has done this or heard first hand that this has been achieved. Both parties would then hold the title as joint owners and both own 100 pc of the property.

[how241]

2 hours ago, rak sa_ngop said:

Are you sure about this?

 

I remember reading that it may be possible to ADD another name to the chanote for a small fee (under the table???) in certain Land Registry Offices. I would love to find out if anybody has done this or heard first hand that this has been achieved. Both parties would then hold the title as joint owners and both own 100 pc of the property.

I don't know about any illegal, under the table, deals and I won't want to chance that with my Chanote.  Even if you found a staff to do this, it might be declared illegal later  by a senior staff...

[jrjrjr]

7 hours ago, rak sa_ngop said:

Are you sure about this?

 

I remember reading that it may be possible to ADD another name to the chanote for a small fee (under the table???) in certain Land Registry Offices. I would love to find out if anybody has done this or heard first hand that this has been achieved. Both parties would then hold the title as joint owners and both own 100 pc of the property.

 

Interesting if it would be possible to add my name on some properties that I had to buy with the help of a Thai name as the condo was not in the 49% foreign ownership...

 

 

[rak sa_ngop]

20 hours ago, how241 said:

I don't know about any illegal, under the table, deals and I won't want to chance that with my Chanote.  Even if you found a staff to do this, it might be declared illegal later  by a senior staff...

I am not actually stating that such a practice would be illegal, just that some offices might be more willing to add a name if a service 'fee' is paid. Having joint ownership of a property is not illegal, as it has certainly been done in Bangkok before. But in the case I know about, the property was purchased in joint names.

[how241]

1 hour ago, rak sa_ngop said:

I am not actually stating that such a practice would be illegal, just that some offices might be more willing to add a name if a service 'fee' is paid. Having joint ownership of a property is not illegal, as it has certainly been done in Bangkok before. But in the case I know about, the property was purchased in joint names.

OK...When you mentioned  "under the table" I was thinking slightly illegal.  A service fee is different.  As practices vary,  you would need to go in to the land office where you are considering buying to ask them.

[jiffers]

On 10/22/2018 at 4:50 PM, Peterw42 said:

A transfer is a sale as far as the land office is concerned, all the same fees and taxes. (otherwise everyone would say they are transferring to a friend/partner etc, to avoid fees and taxes). It would all be done at the land office. If your partner is a Thai wife and the property is a marital asset (acquired during marriage) she would already be entitled to 50% in a divorce.

I looked into the fees and taxes payable for a sale. They're outrageous, around a quarter of a million baht for a 3M property. Of course, the Transfer fee is normally shared between the seller and the buyer, but the seller also has to pay an Agent and a Solicitor.

You do save a lot by buying instead of renting which seems to be the main advantage in buying a condo.

[Peterw42]

24 minutes ago, jiffers said:

I looked into the fees and taxes payable for a sale. They're outrageous, around a quarter of a million baht for a 3M property. Of course, the Transfer fee is normally shared between the seller and the buyer, but the seller also has to pay an Agent and a Solicitor.

You do save a lot by buying instead of renting which seems to be the main advantage in buying a condo.

Dont forget its based on what the land office says its worth, sometimes not close to what you paid or think its worth. It would be more if transferring within 5 years of buying , another 3%. Otherwise its around 2%.

Check with the land office, they may appraise it at 1m baht, transfer after 5 years etc, maybe not so much.

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, jiffers said:

I looked into the fees and taxes payable for a sale. They're outrageous, around a quarter of a million baht for a 3M property. Of course, the Transfer fee is normally shared between the seller and the buyer, but the seller also has to pay an Agent and a Solicitor.

Agents are optional and their fees are negotiable. Solicitors are not needed at all.

 

I dont think the obligatory fees and taxes come to anywhere near .25MB for a 3MB condo. Perhaps half that.

[Delight]

On 10/22/2018 at 4:50 PM, Peterw42 said:

If your partner is a Thai wife and the property is a marital asset (acquired during marriage) she would already be entitled to 50% in a divorce.

Not if you can prove that the money to purchase the property was yours prior to the marriage.

[jiffers]

On 10/30/2018 at 1:36 PM, KittenKong said:

Agents are optional and their fees are negotiable. Solicitors are not needed at all.

 

I dont think the obligatory fees and taxes come to anywhere near .25MB for a 3MB condo. Perhaps half that.

You are probably right. I did the calculations some time ago when I'd owned the condo for 3 years but it's now 5, so I see I would now have to pay Stamp duty and not Specific Business tax. Also, Income Withholding tax will be a lot less now. All in all the taxes are much more palatable.

Thanks for your comments.