THAI to push reforms after unsavoury pilot standoff

[mercman24]

ok , off on a slant, i cannot believe how many people get free or realy cheap flights with this lot ,no wonder they are being propped up, run it like a proper busines <deleted>, paying customers are your income idiots, and by reading these pages, tthey aint got a clue, i have said before i have a friend who,s daughter works at the airport, just a mundane job and she(mum that is) flies often to China for peanuts 

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

I flew last month out of Chicago with a deadheading pilot sat next to me in coach, he really didn't seem to have a problem with it.

The problem with TG is that is a military hobby project, hence is destined to always be in the 'also ran' league of airlines.

The horrible truth is that most airlines worldwide have been at their most profitable over the last 10 years, while TG has been mired in losses.

This stupid incident just highlights why that happened

Don’t think so. TG does not fly to North America.
It must have been a pilot from another airline so irrelevant.

Do you think every pilot/company contract is the same?

[arithai12]

19 minutes ago, jaiyen said:

WE are lucky here in Perth. Have a nice 787 flying every day, staff are good, service is good and the weather is nearly always great, rarely any turbulence. Also Thai are by far the cheapest ! Piss all over Air Asia. Have done this flight over 60 times with rarely any (minor) complaints. Must be one of the few good routes.

Perfect thread to come out and bash (again) something thai. I salute your courage to say things from another angle. I have been flying literally hundreds of times with a lot of companies, I am astonished by ridicule statements like "Thai is the worst in the world" or by those experts who flew a grand total of two times on Thai.

Truth is that Thai is far from perfect, and I am certainly irritated by some of their attitudes when it comes to VIPs, monks, or pilots in this case. I do hope they will use the case of the Zurich flight to take some necessary changes in their policies. Thai is also expensive on some routes/classes, but cheaper on others. I have witnessed some improvements in the last year and I am continuing to fly with them (as well as with others) for the time being.

Can some of those voodooing Thai Airlines come out with an airline which is invariably cheaper, friendlier, kinder, with better hubs and connections. I have probably flown with it and may have a story to tell too.

[colinneil]

8 minutes ago, arithai12 said:

Perfect thread to come out and bash (again) something thai. I salute your courage to say things from another angle. I have been flying literally hundreds of times with a lot of companies, I am astonished by ridicule statements like "Thai is the worst in the world" or by those experts who flew a grand total of two times on Thai.

Truth is that Thai is far from perfect, and I am certainly irritated by some of their attitudes when it comes to VIPs, monks, or pilots in this case. I do hope they will use the case of the Zurich flight to take some necessary changes in their policies. Thai is also expensive on some routes/classes, but cheaper on others. I have witnessed some improvements in the last year and I am continuing to fly with them (as well as with others) for the time being.

Can some of those voodooing Thai Airlines come out with an airline which is invariably cheaper, friendlier, kinder, with better hubs and connections. I have probably flown with it and may have a story to tell too.

Very smart of you to call me an expert, as i was commenting on my own experiences with Thai.

First flight mealtime being told no food left, second flight on a clapped out 747, seat was stuck in the semi- reclining position, makes a mockery of please lock your seat in the upright position for takeoff.

[GinBoy2]

1 minute ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

Don’t think so. TG does not fly to North America.
It must have been a pilot from another airline so irrelevant.

Do you think every pilot/company contract is the same?

Never said or even implied it was a TG pilot, it was an American Airlines pilot. What I was, and you know this, was trying to say as you point out contracts are different.

 

But American Airlines made a quarterly profit of $258M versus a Thai Airlines loss of $87.8M for the same  quarter.

 

There are reasons fairly obvious to all

[Bundooman]

1 hour ago, Jeremy50 said:

The worst airline in the world, just pull the plug.  They should have sent all 4 of these entitled cretins back to economy, and replaced them with some oily backpackers and a fat hairy sex-tourist who hasn't washed his shirt in a week.

So can we assume that you are not an oily backpacker, not fat, not hairy, not a sex tourist and you have washed your shirt in the last week?

 

[Pilotman]

I am no apologist for Thai Airways as I too think that they are not a very good airline in many areas, but this story may not be all it seems.  Flight Crew, most especially pilots, who are 'dead legging', that is returning to duty, or are re positioning, are always placed in First or Business if seats are available.  As I understand it, First was free but some business class passengers had been upgraded.  In any airline I have known, the crew would have then occupied the vacant Business seats, but they may have been upgraded to full too.  If so, its the ground staff that screwed up.  Its all very well for travellers to say that economy if okay for them, so why not for flight crew.  The simple matter is crew spend their entire working lives in that environment and its just not practical ,safe ,healthy or efficient, to have them unable to get proper rest at all times that they are on or off duty.  Even the international working hours rules for flight crew recognise that.  As I say, no apologist for Thai, but this is not as it seems at first read.  If I had been in their position, I would have been highly pissed off too.  

[Burma Bill]

The flight in question had less than 100 passengers on the "jumbo" jet - must have been a loss making flight!

[fvw53]

2 hours ago, graemeaylward said:

Personally, I have never had any problem sleeping in Economy class on long haul flights with a variety of different carriers!

Sent from my Lenovo A3000-H using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

yes some of my friends are like you...they seem to have a switch on their skull to go into sleeping or waking up mode...but unfortunately I don't have such a switch????

[josephbloggs]

38 minutes ago, arithai12 said:

Perfect thread to come out and bash (again) something thai. I salute your courage to say things from another angle. I have been flying literally hundreds of times with a lot of companies, I am astonished by ridicule statements like "Thai is the worst in the world" or by those experts who flew a grand total of two times on Thai.

Truth is that Thai is far from perfect, and I am certainly irritated by some of their attitudes when it comes to VIPs, monks, or pilots in this case. I do hope they will use the case of the Zurich flight to take some necessary changes in their policies. Thai is also expensive on some routes/classes, but cheaper on others. I have witnessed some improvements in the last year and I am continuing to fly with them (as well as with others) for the time being.

Can some of those voodooing Thai Airlines come out with an airline which is invariably cheaper, friendlier, kinder, with better hubs and connections. I have probably flown with it and may have a story to tell too.

I have to agree.  My bet is that most of the people coming out with "Worst Airline in the World" probably spend 364 days a year in their Isaan village and haven't been on a flight in years, but just love to bash, and love to see a story on their favourite forum where they have the chance to jump in and do so.

I fly a lot and I did avoid Thai for many many years due to their old planes.  However they have been modernising their fleet over the past several years and they are now my carrier of choice for short to medium haul as they are massively improved.  The planes are fine - I enjoyed using the A350 to Singapore until they shifted it elsewhere, and the 787 too - on board service is good and definitely better than most.  Their A380 is pretty comfortable too and I flew them to Tokyo on that as they were cheaper than the competition.  They won Skytrax "Economy Class of the Year" in 2018 and you don't win that by being "the worst airline in the world".  In fact coming out with such a ridiculous comment when there are dozens and dozens of much worse airlines in Asia alone just means the rest of your post is not worthy of being taken seriously.

 

I don't use them for long haul as there are much better options around, their IFE is pretty woeful, and they do still run some old 747's which I'd rather not be on.  But they are slowly replacing them too.

 

It's the same thing with the same old faces saying "Suvaranbhumi is a dump - worst airport in the world" etc etc.  It isn't, it clearly isn't anywhere close.  It's not great, but it's not bad.  And they probably haven't been near it for years, they just saw a report of a four hour queue once. 

[Ossy]

1 hour ago, JAG said:

Were Thai Airways bound by normal commercial considerations you would almost certainly be right. 

 

As it is effectively funded by the state, and run largely for the (free or subsidised) benefit of those employed by or "influential" with the state, then I suspect it will continue, until possibly it becomes a casualty of a major political and social upheaval.

Ah, JAG . . . I did say 12mths from now, when there will be an entirely different state. I can't see a leader like Thanathorn giving the country's major loss-leader much leeway. How's that for optimism? For him, a successful businessman, it will be a very simple message to the embattled THAI boss: 'get well or get shut' and I think Sumeth may soon be wishing he'd stayed in media management.

[Bluespunk]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

the downgrading of two passengers who had previously been upgraded from business to first class

Ah...so they hadn’t paid for first class seats. 

[josephbloggs]

5 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Ah...so they hadn’t paid for first class seats. 

No.  Nobody had, as that flight is served by a 77 which only has economy and business.  When they had to switch it to a 747 they upgraded some of the business passengers to first, but the ground crew forgot to leave seats for the deadheads.

 

Reports say the two who refused to go back to the seat they had paid for were a "high ranking official" and his wife.  So if you ask me a lot of blame should be directed at them for their entitled attitude.  However the whole situation was handled attrociously by Thai.

 

Having said that, 1st class on an old 747 would probably be worse than business on a 777 so I can kind of understand it a little.

[Kerryd]

Flew Thai Air twice (Business Class) from Dubai-Bangkok-Dubai.

 

Loved it. Excellent service, in flight amenities were on par (or better) than many competitors, food and service were great. About the only thing I could have complained about was the flight schedule. Having to sit in the terminal in Dubai for 8 hours (after flying in from Afghanistan) kind of sucked, especially when you can't check in for your flight until 3 hours before the scheduled departure.

Other than that, everything was great. I would have flown with them many more times if I hadn't found another airline that had Business Class fares that were much cheaper and departed earlier (but had a short layover in Bahrain and still ended up arriving around the same time as the Thai flights did). 
 

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

I have flown on TG hundreds of times.
Every flight from Chiang Mai is a little late, plan for it, and I have been on some longer delays most a few hours.

I have never experienced a flight cancelled for a technical fault, “no crew available” etc., so I will always choose TG over the LCCs if I need to be somewhere. The last time I took Air Asia the plane was arriving 30 minutes after we should have boarded. People were standing in a line, no reason. In the boarding area not one announcement was made!

[Ossy]

20 minutes ago, fvw53 said:

yes some of my friends are like you...they seem to have a switch on their skull to go into sleeping or waking up mode...but unfortunately I don't have such a switch????

Me neither! It takes me an age to get to sleep, even in a comfy bed; as for the Mrs, she just clocks-out. One of the huge discomforts of long-haul flights and one more reason why every airline employee, from flight crew to ground staff and cabin staff especially, should go 100% out of their way to make every passenger's flight as bearable as possible.

[josephbloggs]

5 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

 

Reports say the two who refused to go back to the seat they had paid for were a "high ranking official" and his wife.  So if you ask me a lot of blame should be directed at them for their entitled attitude.  However the whole situation was handled attrociously by Thai.

 

 

In some ways it's quite refreshing to see that the pilot didn't bow to the big-haired Hi-So.

[connda]

Reform happens when the whole world becomes privy to the secret that Thais with status consider themselves to be above all other lowly humans on Earth.  Change only happens in Thailand when it affects the pocket-book.  Thai Airway is scrambling to save face on the international stage where they have now alienated non-Thai customers who have deeper pockets than the average 'economy' passenger.  Although caught for what they are, surely the arrogance is still there.  

[meinphuket]

6 hours ago, stanleycoin said:

What were they thinking !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Classic Thai male behaviour.

i'm more important than you syndrome. 

You mean 'classic Thai' behaviour, because the 'me first' mentaility is a national syndrome.

[AYJAYDEE]

Where does it say that any passengers that actually PAID for a first class seat were asked to go back to Business Class?

[connda]

Nothing quite says that pilots and puuyai at this company breath rarefied air and are above all others than the sheer physical separation that this gent needs from mere mortals of the press. 
Love the look on this guy's face too.  It says it all:
"Customers are King!"  Sure.  Right.

 

8 hours ago, webfact said:

Some people on social media argued that this was not an issue of privilege

Unfortunately, privilege is exactly what this entire fiasco is about.  It's baked right into the Thai culture.  But this goes over like a lead balloon when Thai culture clashes with Western culture that is more egalitarian in nature. 

My question is, "Why doesn't an airline like Thai Airways have the ability to plan pilot flight bookings and seat reservations in advance like the rest of us?" Then 'bumping' paying passengers and creating ill-will from the flying public would become a moot point.  No, this is definitely about privilege. 
 

 

 

[Scouse123]

7 hours ago, z42 said:

Jesus wept let this ghastly, shambles of an airline free itself from the public purse so that it can die a swift and ugly death.

The fact that some THAI staff were wearing black smacks of unbelievable arrogance. Pathetic ????

 

+1

[josephbloggs]

7 minutes ago, connda said:

Nothing quite says that pilots and puuyai at this company breath rarefied air and are above all others than the sheer physical separation that this gent needs from mere mortals of the press. 
Love the look on this guy's face too.  It says it all:
"Customers are King!"  Sure.  Right.

 

 

 

Did you ever consider that the press may prefer to be in front of him so they can take pictures??  What use would they be if they were pressed up against the side of him?  

[Scouse123]

 

I haven't used THAI in years and always used to fly with them or EVA air. The planes got old and outdated, the cabin crew in business class became aloof and lacking friendliness, similar to British Airways to be honest. Qatar cabin crew leave them both at the starting gate regards customer service.

 

I have been using Qatar Air for a good few years now but their business offers are drying up and they are definitely cutting back on the ' perks ' that once set them apart. They are also constantly badgering me with ' special offers ' which quite honestly, aren't! I should have moved a while ago but it becomes a ' chore ' when you have the privilege class membership cards to start at the bottom rung again with another airline.

 

I have, even though living here many years, always booked UK-BKK-UK. This is due to the fact that flight deals always seem to be better when starting the journey from the UK. I am cutting my trips back now to the UK, so will probably switch airlines again. I still won't fly THAI business class unless they give an unbelievable deal, which they never seem to do anymore.

 

I think I would be inclined to try Oman, who are offering great business class deals on many flights or Finnair, for similar reasons. EVA air used to be good but it is then usually a long wait in London before a shuttle up North.

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, josephbloggs said:

No.  Nobody had, as that flight is served by a 77 which only has economy and business.  When they had to switch it to a 747 they upgraded some of the business passengers to first, but the ground crew forgot to leave seats for the deadheads.

 

Reports say the two who refused to go back to the seat they had paid for were a "high ranking official" and his wife.  So if you ask me a lot of blame should be directed at them for their entitled attitude.  However the whole situation was handled attrociously by Thai.

 

Having said that, 1st class on an old 747 would probably be worse than business on a 777 so I can kind of understand it a little.

The news story says differently. Clearly states they were upgraded from business to first. 

 

I agree the situation was handled badly, but if you want to see atrocious handling of a situation, view the ryan air crews handling of an abusive racists behaviour earlier this week.  

[josephbloggs]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

The news story says differently. Clearly states they were upgraded from business to first. 

Yes, that's what I am saying.  They had been upgraded.  Nobody in First Class on that flight had paid for First Class.

[scorecard]

And Thai displays it's total arrogance and lack of logical focus once again:

 

"Ekniti Nitithanprapas, the chairman of THAI, said earlier that he would use this incident as an opportunity to reform the national carrier. He said he wanted to build a “Customer is King” culture in the organisation.

 

Why didn't all of that happen progressively over the past 58 years or at least why didn't it happen as a specific re-engineering project at least 2 decades ago given the very very long list of serious complains and incidents reported publicly (therefore there will be many unreported) over the last 20 years and more? 

 

 

[Bluespunk]

5 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Yes, that's what I am saying.  They had been upgraded.  Nobody in First Class on that flight had paid for First Class.

So it is as I originally said.  

 

They hadn’t paid for first class and had no case to argue against going back to a business class seat. 

[josephbloggs]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

So it is as I originally said.  

 

They hadn’t paid for first class and had no case to argue against going back to a business class seat. 

Yes, I am agreeing with you.  ????

[Bluespunk]

Just now, josephbloggs said:

Yes, I am agreeing with you.  ????

 You know I thought we were disagreeing for a minute, but couldn’t see where. 

 

Time for a coffee. ????