THAI to push reforms after unsavoury pilot standoff

[ronaldo0]

Kids still playing musical chairs it seems !!

[melvinmelvin]

I have been flying far more than most people. Constantly criss crossing the planet for 30 years.

Thank g that has ended now,

In my exp, Thai is pretty average, not worse or better than any other full service airline.

You have good exp and bad exp with all airlines.

 

Worst cockup I ever exp was with BA. Took close to 10 hours to go from LHR to Paris, most of it BAs own fault,

the last 2 massive cockups was after landing, caused by the airport in Paris.

 

With the kind of pride Thais attach to having a flag carrier I just can't see TG disappearing, regardless of size of loss.

 

[Development at Khaoyai]

Thai Smile are a little more efficient!

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Ossy said:

Me neither! It takes me an age to get to sleep, even in a comfy bed; as for the Mrs, she just clocks-out. One of the huge discomforts of long-haul flights and one more reason why every airline employee, from flight crew to ground staff and cabin staff especially, should go 100% out of their way to make every passenger's flight as bearable as possible.

Fair comment. And to my thinking highlights that nobody, regardless of seat, gets good deep / restful sleep on a flight.

 

And this seems to be emphasised by the fact (from many posts)  that pilots who are being 'moved' to a new destination point need (by laws / regulations) many more hours of proper sleep before they are allowed to fly an aircraft.

 

So why did the pilots make such a fuss and do so much damage to Thai?

 

Surely their pilots are aware of the need to build and maintain a brand image which helps to attract paying customers, the life blood of any business and the conduit for funds to pay their salaries.

 

Or maybe not? 

 

[gunderhill]

8 hours ago, Rhys said:

...do you know who my father is....

No, but they do have  a name for that.

[scorecard]

5 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

No, but they do have  a name for that.

 one classifier could be employment through nepotism and famous family name...

[Peasandmash]

The last time I flew Thai Airways they treated me like I was Chinese!

[moose7117]

5 hours ago, graemeaylward said:

Personally, I have never had any problem sleeping in Economy class on long haul flights with a variety of different carriers!

Sent from my Lenovo A3000-H using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

What ?

Are you three foot tall or something ?

[moose7117]

Am a gold member with Thai Airways and flown between here and oz nearly monthly for the last 10 odd years.

i have flown with Qantas, Virgin, Air Asia, Tiger, Scoot, Singapore air, PNG Air and MAS as well. not to mention all the local airlines that work has paid for.

Thai Air is always first choice due to convenience and the service imho is only rivalled by Singapore Air.

 

However on a lighter note Fixed wing pilots, especially jet jockeys, are well known as prima donna's, Real men fly ROTARY.

 

Rob

[wallwallyau]

1 hour ago, josephbloggs said:

Yes, I am agreeing with you.  ????

Me too. If you just paid for business class, the argument is just a moot point.

In general, for 747 jet, the first class's seat will be reserved for pilot.

Also, many people said that TG lose money every year with a poor service and catering. It seems to me that they don't know other airlines like Cathy Pacific also suffered a huge loss in a past several year.

[scorecard]

42 minutes ago, moose7117 said:

What ?

Are you three foot tall or something ?

Seems to me the can / cannot sleep item is personal,

 

I flew regional Nth to Sth of Asia 3 times a week for around 12 years, shorter flights KL-KL or S'pore economy, longer in Bus.

 

Daytime flights I never got any sleep.

 

After dark flights I always got many hours sleep (not sure how restful that really is but that's another discussion).

 

My support staff always booked me, on return journeys, on mid evening departures.  

 

My Thai wife and adult Thai son often flew with me, both of them could sleep anywhere & anytime, in a bed, on a plane, or whatever. I wonder if it was som tum?

 

 

[oldrunner]

I'd previously heard of Thai Airways service(not) and arrogance (I'm a pilot because my Daddy and Mommy own big shares in losing $ airline). The arrogance of Thai's is unbelievable until you come face to face with it. As a result of previous incidents, well publicized, I've never flown Thai airways and never plan to.

[LomSak27]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Surely their pilots are aware of the need to build and maintain a brand image which helps to attract paying customers, the life blood of any business and the conduit for funds to pay their salaries.

 

Or maybe not? 

Or maybe not

 

Perhaps their jobs depended not on how profitable they were, but the fact it was a National Carrier so no matter what, it kept flying.

 

I remember when Thai was great, a model for customer service; mid 90's it peaked and started a long downward slide. I flew them in 2014 to Europe, ok flight, cheap ticket. However, today I would not. 

[Sydebolle]

......... shortcomings in the organisation, which have stacked up over the 58 years of the national carrier’s operations .........

This is untreated bull..... and we all know it. Under the leadership of people like Chatchai Bunja-Ananda, Nils Lumholdt, Lennard Holmgren, Captain Yotin etc., i.e. until 25 years ago, Thai was a shining star which, indeed, operated "smooth as silk". 

The last 25 years of its 58 years of existence the flagship carrier got completely misused by braindead politicians, air force clowns and was like a supermarket without cashiers on the way out. So many people stole, misused, cheated ....... which resulted in TG being among the worst airlines to still fly. 

Thai does not need an union, it needs professional leadership and motivated, dedicated staff. Fire the entire lot including this clown of union chief, all the staff involved in TG971's stand-off. To give you an example how to deal with such arrogant pathetic pilots you might want to watch Lee Kuan Yew dealt with Singapore Airlines' pilots (see bottom). 

But then again, Thailand and Thai Airways are centuries away from Singapore and its flagship carrier ......... which commenced operation in 1972 only! )

 

[Joedoebarinio]

On the a occasions when I flew out here from London more often than not I used EVA. On this particular occasion, I thought I’ll have a change. So I book Thai Airways. That was the first and the last. 

[Ossy]

4 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

 

+1

Fair comment.

[Ossy]

4 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Yes, I am agreeing with you.  ????

Thank heavens for that . . . I was about to Google for a UFC ring.

[cookieqw]

“Moreover, I do not believe the difference between business and first-class seats in the aircraft significantly affects the quality of sleep,”

same same different price

[starky]

4 hours ago, moose7117 said:

Am a gold member with Thai Airways and flown between here and oz nearly monthly for the last 10 odd years.

i have flown with Qantas, Virgin, Air Asia, Tiger, Scoot, Singapore air, PNG Air and MAS as well. not to mention all the local airlines that work has paid for.

Thai Air is always first choice due to convenience and the service imho is only rivalled by Singapore Air.

 

However on a lighter note Fixed wing pilots, especially jet jockeys, are well known as prima donna's, Real men fly ROTARY.

 

Rob

Me as well gold member flying monthly between Perth-BKK or Sydney-BKK. Never had an issue with Thai. Their service levels are exceptional and always friendly. Their business class on longer flights isn't on par with some other carriers but their price reflects the difference so no complaints here.

[new2here]

The pilots have a CONTRACT with TG.
They likely gave up something else in negotiations to get the first class deadheads in their contract. It is a unionists duty to demand the contract be upheld or else she/he undermines the rest of the membership, in this case it would be covering up for the company’s mistake in upgrading all the passengers due to plane change. I worked on both sides over around 30 years career. I think unions have largely outlived their necessity but MANAGEMENT will never cut labor unions any slack when the rules benefit them why should the union?
 

I agree.. and sadly that is the real-world relationship that exists between management and labour in many companies of size...

Here’s my take.

In and of itself the TG policy/CBA language that governs staff NRPS travel, most likely looks almost identical to that of many other major carriers .. so to that end, I don’t think TG is doing anything that is radically different..

Here’s where I think it went bad if you will.

I’ve long held that the issue that really makes MORE people upset is not the rule itself - but it is the HOW that rule is enforced; that being the behavior, attitude, speaking tone, facial/body language etc.

Sure, it’s never going to be a popular policy that certain NRPS passengers can bump (IDB/IDG) revenue passengers... and also true, for the most part, it is those passengers fares that really provide the lifeblood of the carrier.. that’s true too... but I think there will be times - few I think of you really were to dig down and look at the hard numerical data - where the contractual rights/company policy and paying customer expectations collide and a mutually exclusive situation exists.

On THIS case, again without benefit of seeing the whole series of events, it really sounds like more of an “execution” failure or doing it badly, than it is the rule/contract/policy itself.

IF the pilots contract correctly applied to the current case situation, gave them the contractual right to F-cabin, then that’s what TG should have given them full stop. But... i also think concurrent to that a hard look at how that situation is going to be handled is also a requirement... it’s that last part where I think the true failure originated.



Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[White Christmas13]

8 hours ago, jaiyen said:

WE are lucky here in Perth. Have a nice 787 flying every day, staff are good, service is good and the weather is nearly always great, rarely any turbulence. Also Thai are by far the cheapest ! Piss all over Air Asia. Have done this flight over 60 times with rarely any (minor) complaints. Must be one of the few good routes.

I have to disagree Thai is not the cheapest by a long shot I can fly Scoot for about $400 less than Thai but Thai is the only one which fly's non stop to Bangkok, I never would recommend Thai to anybody but my Thai girlfriend does not speak any English at all I can't take the risk her stopping in Singapore or Kuala Lumpur  and missing the connecting flight she never been outside Thailand let alone on a airplane

[how241]

11 hours ago, overherebc said:

If I am asked that question I always answer No, ask your mother, she should know..

????????

Good 'come-back'...

[overherebc]

16 minutes ago, how241 said:

Good 'come-back'...

Can't claim it as mine though to be honest.

[zzaa09]

1 hour ago, cookieqw said:

“Moreover, I do not believe the difference between business and first-class seats in the aircraft significantly affects the quality of sleep,”

same same different price

Not to be terribly pedantic, but these situations vary greatly depending on the type of heavy craft [747, 777, 340, 330, etc] and the respective airline's seat configuration - in fairness, are usually similar. First and business classes are not that isolated/segregated as they once were.....still attempt to pack 'em in. The definitive example of first class isolation was/is the old B747-400 series configuration where the limit was 20-25 upper deck. Most first and business classes aren't designed in this nature any longer. 

 

As to sleeping on a flight, much to do with the individual. Regardless of where one is seated - some fight to sleep and other sleep like a baby. 

[josephbloggs]

10 hours ago, Sydebolle said:

......... shortcomings in the organisation, which have stacked up over the 58 years of the national carrier’s operations .........

This is untreated bull..... and we all know it. Under the leadership of people like Chatchai Bunja-Ananda, Nils Lumholdt, Lennard Holmgren, Captain Yotin etc., i.e. until 25 years ago, Thai was a shining star which, indeed, operated "smooth as silk". 

The last 25 years of its 58 years of existence the flagship carrier got completely misused by braindead politicians, air force clowns and was like a supermarket without cashiers on the way out. So many people stole, misused, cheated ....... which resulted in TG being among the worst airlines to still fly. 

Thai does not need an union, it needs professional leadership and motivated, dedicated staff. Fire the entire lot including this clown of union chief, all the staff involved in TG971's stand-off. To give you an example how to deal with such arrogant pathetic pilots you might want to watch Lee Kuan Yew dealt with Singapore Airlines' pilots (see bottom). 

But then again, Thailand and Thai Airways are centuries away from Singapore and its flagship carrier ......... which commenced operation in 1972 only! )

 

That was a great speech by a dictator against a striking union.  Not really relevant here though. 

 

If Prayut dealt with Thai the same way people would be up in arms, rightly.

 

 

If you expand his speech beyond your clip it sounds spretty racist:

 

Towards the end of the 'meeting', Lee Kuan Yew exposed Captain Goh.

The 43 year old pilot leading the 'pay strike' who is a Malaysian holding a Singapore PR (approved in 1981) and Australian PR (approved in 2002).

The below are an excerpt of an article on the meeting:

"Reading from a file, Mr Lee pulled out the following facts about Captain Goh.

A Malaysian with permanent residence status here, he had accepted Australian PR in 2002, moved his wife and children to Perth, shipped his car and sold his flat.

You told someone from IE Singapore that the grass had stopped growing in Singapore, did you not, [SM Lee Kuan Yew] asked.

He turned to one of the pilots and asked if he knew the Malaysian had bought a house in Australia and had this option to bail out.

No, the person answered.

'No?' repeated Mr Lee.

'That's deception, isn't it?' he asked Capt Goh.

The pilot in the hot seat tried to defend himself but it was too late. The line in the sand between him and the Singaporeans had been drawn for him.

'My daughter is still in school here,' he tried saying, adding this showed he still had roots in Singapore.

But wasn't that because she did not like school in Australia and came back, Mr Lee shot back calmly.

Silence.

 

Yay, go natioanlist leaders, bring them in to sort out Thai Airways!

[Stargeezr]

I have rode on Thai air and their domestic line in Thailand many times and

have never had any issues. I do fly economy 100 percent of the time though

so do not have any experience of getting bumped by some air crew. I think

the quality of service, rivals Air Canada for sure. I wished that Thai Air would

fly to my city in Canada.

Geezer

[scorecard]

7 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

That was a great speech by a dictator against a striking union.  Not really relevant here though. 

 

If Prayut dealt with Thai the same way people would be up in arms, rightly.

 

 

If you expand his speech beyond your clip it sounds spretty racist:

 

Towards the end of the 'meeting', Lee Kuan Yew exposed Captain Goh.

The 43 year old pilot leading the 'pay strike' who is a Malaysian holding a Singapore PR (approved in 1981) and Australian PR (approved in 2002).

The below are an excerpt of an article on the meeting:

"Reading from a file, Mr Lee pulled out the following facts about Captain Goh.

A Malaysian with permanent residence status here, he had accepted Australian PR in 2002, moved his wife and children to Perth, shipped his car and sold his flat.

You told someone from IE Singapore that the grass had stopped growing in Singapore, did you not, [SM Lee Kuan Yew] asked.

He turned to one of the pilots and asked if he knew the Malaysian had bought a house in Australia and had this option to bail out.

No, the person answered.

'No?' repeated Mr Lee.

'That's deception, isn't it?' he asked Capt Goh.

The pilot in the hot seat tried to defend himself but it was too late. The line in the sand between him and the Singaporeans had been drawn for him.

'My daughter is still in school here,' he tried saying, adding this showed he still had roots in Singapore.

But wasn't that because she did not like school in Australia and came back, Mr Lee shot back calmly.

Silence.

 

Yay, go natioanlist leaders, bring them in to sort out Thai Airways!

Seems to me there is a case for a hard nose to get heavy with some elements of Thai staff and cancel their perks, kill freebies for hangers on, re-training for all, new and enforced recruitment policies which kill nepotism, and install a monitored performance appraisal process which ensures that all employees DON'T get the highest personal performance rating. And a retrenchment program to get the diehards out of Thai.

 

Some folks might know that years back Thai sent a proportion of their new cabin crew to cabin crew training in Singapore at the SIA school. They came back to Thailand and into full cabin service in Thai. The whole idea was cancelled within a few months. Why? Because the old cabin staff ostracized the SIA trained staff. The powers that be should have nipped this in the bud to ensure the take up of the new (to Thai) SIA training outcomes, they didn't, too many famous family names in the picture.

 

In fact if something like the above doesn't happen then nothing will change.

 

 

[Ossy]

18 hours ago, Sydebolle said:

......... shortcomings in the organisation, which have stacked up over the 58 years of the national carrier’s operations .........

This is untreated bull..... and we all know it. Under the leadership of people like Chatchai Bunja-Ananda, Nils Lumholdt, Lennard Holmgren, Captain Yotin etc., i.e. until 25 years ago, Thai was a shining star which, indeed, operated "smooth as silk". 

The last 25 years of its 58 years of existence the flagship carrier got completely misused by braindead politicians, air force clowns and was like a supermarket without cashiers on the way out. So many people stole, misused, cheated ....... which resulted in TG being among the worst airlines to still fly. 

Thai does not need an union, it needs professional leadership and motivated, dedicated staff. Fire the entire lot including this clown of union chief, all the staff involved in TG971's stand-off. To give you an example how to deal with such arrogant pathetic pilots you might want to watch Lee Kuan Yew dealt with Singapore Airlines' pilots (see bottom). 

But then again, Thailand and Thai Airways are centuries away from Singapore and its flagship carrier ......... which commenced operation in 1972 only! )

 

A cracking post. I missed it, yesterday, but it contains so much that is relevant to THAI's malaise.

[watcharacters]

22 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Ah...so they hadn’t paid for first class seats. 

 

Would that really matter if they were assigned those First Class seats?    I've been on plenty of overbooked flights

where the airline staff was tasked with enticing passengers to give up their seats by offering compensation.     It always works.

 

Did Thai Air staff offer any compensation to the affected passengers or does the Thai Air company policy not allow for such a thing?

[Ossy]

9 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Seems to me there is a case for a hard nose to get heavy with some elements of Thai staff and cancel their perks, kill freebies for hangers on, re-training for all, new and enforced recruitment policies which kill nepotism, and install a monitored performance appraisal process which ensures that all employees DON'T get the highest personal performance rating. And a retrenchment program to get the diehards out of Thai.

 

Some folks might know that years back Thai sent a proportion of their new cabin crew to cabin crew training in Singapore at the SIA school. They came back to Thailand and into full cabin service in Thai. The whole idea was cancelled within a few months. Why? Because the old cabin staff ostracized the SIA trained staff. The powers that be should have nipped this in the bud to ensure the take up of the new (to Thai) SIA training outcomes, they didn't, too many famous family names in the picture.

 

In fact if something like the above doesn't happen then nothing will change.

 

 

And Sumeth certainly doesn't fit that bill. They could do to borrow Richard Branson for 3 months, for that's how long it would take him to either make THAI work - once he'd persuaded the state to make him the major share-holder - or to sell it on, as goods unfit for purpose.