webfact Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Saudi crown prince vows to bring Khashoggi killers to justice By Marwa Rashad, Stephen Kalin and Katie Paul Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and Jordan's King Abdullah II ibn Al Hussein attend the investment conference in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia October 23, 2018. Bandar Algaloud/Courtesy of Saudi Royal Court/Handout via REUTERS RIYADH (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia's powerful Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman vowed on Wednesday that the killers of Jamal Khashoggi would be brought to justice, in his first public comments since the journalist's murder sparked global condemnation. Striking a defiant tone, Prince Mohammed told international investors at a major conference in Riyadh that the furore over Khashoggi's killing at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul would not derail the kingdom's reform drive. His comments came hours after U.S. President Donald Trump was quoted by the Wall Street Journal as saying that as Saudi Arabia's de facto ruler, the crown prince bore ultimate responsibility for the operation that led to Khashoggi's death. "We will prove to the world that the two governments (Saudi and Turkish) are cooperating to punish any criminal, any culprit and at the end justice will prevail," Prince Mohammed said to applause. The world's top oil exporter has come under increasing pressure over the death of Khashoggi, a columnist and one of the crown prince's most prominent critics. The crisis has strained Riyadh's ties with the West and led dozens of Western politicians, top world bankers and company executives to boycott the conference that opened in Riyadh on Tuesday. French President Emmanuel Macron told King Salman in a phone call on Wednesday that Paris, in coordination with partners, could take action against those held responsible for the murder, the Elysee palace said. However, French reaction has been relatively guarded, as Paris tries to retain its influence with Riyadh and protect commercial relations spanning energy, finance and arms sales. From 2008 to 2017, Saudi Arabia was the second biggest purchaser of French arms, with deals totalling 11 billion euros ($12.7 billion), including 1.5 billion euros last year alone. Saudi Arabia first denied any involvement in Khashoggi's disappearance but a Saudi official eventually attributed his death on Oct. 2 to a botched attempt to return him to the kingdom. Turkey has dismissed Saudi efforts to blame rogue operatives and urged the kingdom to search "top to bottom" for those responsible. Britain, also a major weapons supplier to the kingdom, described Riyadh's explanations as lacking credibility. Prime Minister Theresa May said on Wednesday that Britain would prevent all suspects in the killing from entering the country, shortly before she spoke to King Salman. The Trump administration and the U.S. defence industry are scrambling to save the few actual deals in a much-touted $110 billion arms package for Saudi Arabia. STRAINED TIES Prince Mohammed said Saudi Arabia and Turkey would work together "to reach results" on a joint investigation and described cooperation between the two countries as "special", despite criticism from Ankara. "The incident that happened is very painful, for all Saudis... The incident is not justifiable," the crown prince said on a discussion panel at the conference. Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan spoke to Prince Mohammed on Wednesday and the two discussed the steps needed to bring to light all aspects of Khashoggi's death, a presidential source said. But in the bluntest sign yet of strained ties, one of Erdogan's advisers wrote in a Turkish newspaper that Prince Mohammed had "blood on his hands". Saudi authorities did not respond to a request for comment about the remarks by Trump or the Erdogan adviser but Prince Mohammed painted a different picture of relations with Turkey. "There are now those who are trying to take advantage of the painful situation to create a rift between the kingdom and Turkey," he said. "I want to send them a message that they cannot do this as long as there a king named Salman bin Abdulaziz and a crown prince named Mohammed bin Salman in Saudi Arabia, and a president in Turkey named Erdogan." In his comments to the Wall Street Journal, Trump said he wanted to believe Prince Mohammed when he said lower level officials were to blame for Khashoggi's death. But the U.S. president suggested responsibility lay higher up. "Well, the prince is running things over there more so at this stage. He's running things and so if anybody were going to be, it would be him," Trump said. "DON'T SPREAD RUMOURS" The Future Investment Initiative conference in Riyadh was overshadowed by Khashoggi's killing, with more than two dozen high-level participants withdrawing. But Saudi Arabia showed it could still do business despite the furore, signing deals worth $50 billion at the conference on Tuesday. The event was attended by hundreds of bankers and company executives. Prince Mohammed, 33, the architect of Riyadh's reform drive, was upbeat on the economy, predicting growth of 2.5 percent this year. He seemed relaxed on the panel he shared with Bahrain's Crown Prince Salman bin Hamad al-Khalifa and Lebanon's Prime Minister Saad al-Hariri. He joked about Hariri's detention in the kingdom last year, saying the Lebanese prime minister was free to leave after attending the conference. "Prime Minister Saad is staying in the kingdom for two days so I hope you don't spread rumours that he was kidnapped," Prince Mohammed, who is also known as MbS, said. Hariri, who has Saudi citizenship, was summoned to Riyadh a year ago, briefly detained and compelled to resign as prime minister in a speech read out on television from Saudi until France intervened to free him. ECONOMIC REFORM DRIVE The Saudi central bank governor tried to reassure foreign banks that withdrew from the conference that they would not be penalised and may apply for licences to operate in the country, the Middle East's largest economy. During the panel MbS touted Saudi Arabia's success in its efforts to transform its oil-dependent economy and make the deeply conservative kingdom a more tolerant society. Despite the boycott of the investment conference by big hitters, including in Wall Street, some senior international bankers including from HSBC and Japan's biggest lender MUFG attended. (Additional reporting by Rania El Gamal in Riyadh; Ezgi Erkoyun, Ali Kucukgocmen and Ezgi Erkoyun in Istanbul; Editing by William Maclean, David Stamp and Jon Boyle) -- © Copyright Reuters 2018-10-25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 for a fraction of a second I thought it was Denny Crane sitting next to the prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 He will most likly have to commit Harikari as I doubt that he has the ability to behead himself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, wayned said: He will most likly have to commit Harikari as I doubt that he has the ability to behead himself! this alternate spelling is interesting - I guess it's meant as bait for compleat idiots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somtamnication Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 All these countries who are huge weapon suppliers are refraining from tough comments. What is this world coming to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 12 minutes ago, manarak said: this alternate spelling is interesting - I guess it's meant as bait for compleat idiots? What alternate spellig? I left the e out of likely and that's it : harikari - ritual suicide by self-disembowelment on a sword; practiced by samurai in the traditional Japanese society. harakiri, hara-kiri, seppuku. self-annihilation, self-destruction, suicide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailand Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Look in the mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opl Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 “What MBS doesn’t realise is, to outside audiences, not just in the West, but in the Middle East and internationally, people will look at that and think that’s just sinister,” he said. “The Saudis obviously thought that would show them in a good light. But it was absolutely macabre… It makes them really look sinister and cruel and it’s a sign of their total lack of judgement. “ https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/mbs-says-there-will-be-no-divide-between-saudi-and-turkey-over-khashoggi-1603349996 ” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie999 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 51 minutes ago, manarak said: this alternate spelling is interesting - I guess it's meant as bait for compleat idiots? Most of us just aren't so damn pedantic... oh I am guessing you meant "complete" idiots, as "compleat" is very archaic, you need to move into more modern times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thian Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 52 minutes ago, Somtamnication said: All these countries who are huge weapon suppliers are refraining from tough comments. What is this world coming to? Guess you didn't hear Germany's reaction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carib Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 So he will be turning himself in then.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YetAnother Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 1 hour ago, webfact said: The incident that happened is very painful, for all Saudis... how ironic; i haven't talked to All saudis, however i suspect the saudis most pained are the supporters of the now dead critic of the royals there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtls2005 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 On the plus side, if there can even be one from this atrocity, after MbS killing all those involved in the operation which he ordered he may have a tougher time recruiting a hit squad in the future? Can't wait to see the protester's signs the next time he visits the U.S. - expect liberal use of "bone saws" on the posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpisgood Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 So, who gets thrown under the bus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connda Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 MbS is a comedian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animalmagic Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Somtamnication said: All these countries who are huge weapon suppliers are refraining from tough comments. What is this world coming to? Not coming to anything.....it's just where it's been for many years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animalmagic Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Just now, helpisgood said: So, who gets thrown under the bus? They need a very quick bus as they would not like the condemned to speak first. Too many secrets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydebolle Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 A suicide in the making then ........... and no virgins waiting upstairs I guess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 When is he going to turn himself in lol on a more serious note how many underlings are going to die for this guys fiasco of an operation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyphodb Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 So he's going to arrest himself then? 555 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klauskunkel Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 4 hours ago, webfact said: We will prove to the world that the two governments (Saudi and Turkish) are cooperating to punish any criminal You will set up the Erdogan Retirement Fund for not exposing your direct involvement, and that's the extent of the cooperation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGareth2 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 let's see how these Salafists interpret the Sharia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
car720 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 4 hours ago, manarak said: this alternate spelling is interesting - I guess it's meant as bait for compleat idiots? It sounds like selffuka to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 4 hours ago, Opl said: “What MBS doesn’t realise is, to outside audiences, not just in the West, but in the Middle East and internationally, people will look at that and think that’s just sinister,” he said. “The Saudis obviously thought that would show them in a good light. But it was absolutely macabre… It makes them really look sinister and cruel and it’s a sign of their total lack of judgement. “ https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/mbs-says-there-will-be-no-divide-between-saudi-and-turkey-over-khashoggi-1603349996 ” I'd take the above with a grain of salt, given source, author and choice of people interviewed for commentary. Much of it includes notions which may be applicable to Western norms. To assume these fully translate the same way regionally or domestically is....an interesting point of view. Yes, MbS visiting the family for a "condolence" session was macabre, and as posted earlier, puke-worthy. But as far as I'm aware, traditions play a part here as well - doing otherwise possibly being taken as an admission of guilt etc. And further, in the context of the ME, "sinister" is not necessarily an undesirable trait for autocratic rulers. The piece even touches upon that some, when it references MbS being "made" to act makes him look weaker. So yeah, parading Hariri that way is crass, but at the same time sends a message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Thian said: Guess you didn't hear Germany's reaction? As far as I'm aware, German authorities still didn't clarify if the arms export ban/suspension covers deals already signed, ongoing arms sales related to past deals, or the scope of the ban/suspension's actual effect. IMO, Merkel's hand was forced, what with domestic political troubles, and the coalition agreements including parts relevant to arms deals with SA. Worth bearing in mind the German government didn't actually have all that much issues supplying arms to SA, regardless of the war in Yemen. Not a whole lot of moral high-ground there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Morch said: German authorities still didn't clarify if the arms export ban/suspension covers deals already signed, While the move affects future deals, exports that have already been approved to the second-biggest foreign market for German arms equipment will proceed for now but may be suspended in the coming days. Germany today accounts for only a relatively small share of European sales to Saudi Arabia, after years of curbing exports to the kingdom amid human rights concerns. Theresa May’s conservative government has so far been cautious about any sanctions that could endanger thousands of British jobs amid an already strained pre-Brexit economy. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2018/10/22/germany-its-allies-well-halt-future-arms-sales-saudi-arabia-until-we-have-clarity-khashoggi-so-should-you/?utm_term=.fb0dbd03ed36 With regard to arms sales to SA, Germany seems to have the highest moral ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IssanMichael Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 6 hours ago, Aussie999 said: Most of us just aren't so damn pedantic... oh I am guessing you meant "complete" idiots, as "compleat" is very archaic, you need to move into more modern times. If it was meant as bait for complete idiots, did it work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tchooptip Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 One of the perpetrators already died in a car accident probably it was the one who knows too many details about the involvement of the prince, can you believe it, died in a car accident Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Srikcir said: While the move affects future deals, exports that have already been approved to the second-biggest foreign market for German arms equipment will proceed for now but may be suspended in the coming days. Germany today accounts for only a relatively small share of European sales to Saudi Arabia, after years of curbing exports to the kingdom amid human rights concerns. Theresa May’s conservative government has so far been cautious about any sanctions that could endanger thousands of British jobs amid an already strained pre-Brexit economy. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2018/10/22/germany-its-allies-well-halt-future-arms-sales-saudi-arabia-until-we-have-clarity-khashoggi-so-should-you/?utm_term=.fb0dbd03ed36 With regard to arms sales to SA, Germany seems to have the highest moral ground. As there are still (to the best of my knowledge) no specifics on what the German move actually amounts to, assessing whether it's of substance will have to wait. With regard to human rights, Germany did sell arms to SA while the war in Yemen was going on. Some of the deals included setting up production lines in SA and transfer of know-how. I guess one could present it as the "highest" moral ground, but that's not saying a whole lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opl Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 5 hours ago, Morch said: I'd take the above with a grain of salt, given source, author and choice of people interviewed for commentary. Much of it includes notions which may be applicable to Western norms. To assume these fully translate the same way regionally or domestically is....an interesting point of view. Yes, MbS visiting the family for a "condolence" session was macabre, and as posted earlier, puke-worthy. But as far as I'm aware, traditions play a part here as well - doing otherwise possibly being taken as an admission of guilt etc. And further, in the context of the ME, "sinister" is not necessarily an undesirable trait for autocratic rulers. The piece even touches upon that some, when it references MbS being "made" to act makes him look weaker. So yeah, parading Hariri that way is crass, but at the same time sends a message. All tyrants need to perform a particularly abject and revolting crime to establish their power. It is an atavism as much as a political requirement. Most Arab potentates have been feeding their populations for years on “fake news” and “alternative facts”. MBS and his latest bloody "incident" misgovernance make it worth remembering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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