SURVEY: USA -- Headed in the right or wrong direction?

[patsfangr]

4 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Three stories from the last few days

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46002549

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45996655

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46001617

Bluespunk, every decent American, regardless of political party, color, religion, etc., is deeply saddened and angered by acts such as this. That said, there are two things you must remember before jumping to conclusions about American society. The USA is a nation of over 300 million people. You'd have to look at a combination of other countries totaling that number - countries where citizens have similar freedoms to enable such acts, to determine whether the USA is "out of control", and/or has become a "bloody battleground". I by no means intend any degree of minimalization of these horrific acts when I say that this sort of thing happens within a population of that size, in a nation where people are free to do things that can help them commit such acts. This could lead to a long discussion of the balance between personal freedoms and the safety of society; but this is not the place for that discussion. I just wanted to make the point that such deplorable individual acts should not serve as a condemnation of America. 

[mcambl61]

1 hour ago, abrahamzvi said:

most Americans will agree with such a system, which prevails in most democratic countries of Europe, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Germany Netherlands and others

not a chance in hell

[Brunolem]

3 minutes ago, ReMarKable said:

Maybe we should forget about Florida and Texas since they voted for Trump and might skew future elections similar to California?

No because the margin between Trump and Clinton in these states was not in the millions of voters, as it was in California...so their influence on the result of the popular vote was much smaller than that of California...

[ReMarKable]

8 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

Socialist is insulting, unless you like to pay massive taxes.

Bernie is a socialist, and a complete idiot.

 

Socialism is merely a step towards communism, whether you like it or not.

"The goal of socialism is communism." Vladimir Lenin

 

Exactly what do you think this "socialised medicine" would cost if

the government provided all of it?

 

An independent analysis of Sanders's plan conducted by the left-leaning Urban Institute estimated that it would cost $32 trillion over 10 years. And those are just the financial costs. Socialized medicine's human costs are even greater. Single-payer systems the world over ration care and force patients to wait for treatment.

 

So stop preaching nonsense.

 

I dare say Bernie is smarter than you, a mere fear mongering Trumpite.

[jcsmith]

9 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Not silly, just simple maths.

In a country where the population is roughly divided 50/50 between two political parties, one big state favoring overwhelmingly one of these parties is enough to tilt the balance...

Again this is silly. You are talking about 1/8th of the country living in California. You want to throw out votes from 1/8th of the country to get the result you are hoping for. Only 23 states have a population of more than 5 million people, 7 states have less than 1 million total people. California has 40 million people.  

[billsmart]

11 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

of course it is, so is their culture.

 

 

No, what I'm saying is the geographic location of the group is not important. The group (union) does not have to all be in one place. It can be spread out all over the world - like an all-world union.

[ReMarKable]

4 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

No because the margin between Trump and Clinton in these states was not in the millions of voters, as it was in California...so their influence on the result of the popular vote was much smaller than that of California...

Well than just do not allow voters from states that have too much influence on a candidate to vote. So exclude Democrats and Republican from voting and only allow those who are largely independent or undecided to vote.

[Brunolem]

17 minutes ago, jcsmith said:

Nice of you to speak for Europe. Trump has certainly hurt relations there, but without the U.S. NATO would be vulnerable against Russian aggression.

Sure!

Please remind me when was the last time Russia tried to invade Western Europe...and the other way round?

[jcsmith]

It should be noted while that $32 trillion number may be correct, the number is actually $2 trillion less than the current health care is projected to cost us... and everyone would be covered.

Edited October 28, 2018 by jcsmith

[Jonah Tenner]

4 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

I like your post, but, where are the "reasoned representatives who have some intelligence and are not beholding to money interests"  ?

In Europe they don't exist, I don't think you can find them in the Americas either.

[Bluespunk]

18 minutes ago, patsfangr said:

Bluespunk, every decent American, regardless of political party, color, religion, etc., is deeply saddened and angered by acts such as this. That said, there are two things you must remember before jumping to conclusions about American society. The USA is a nation of over 300 million people. You'd have to look at a combination of other countries totaling that number - countries where citizens have similar freedoms to enable such acts, to determine whether the USA is "out of control", and/or has become a "bloody battleground". I by no means intend any degree of minimalization of these horrific acts when I say that this sort of thing happens within a population of that size, in a nation where people are free to do things that can help them commit such acts. This could lead to a long discussion of the balance between personal freedoms and the safety of society; but this is not the place for that discussion. I just wanted to make the point that such deplorable individual acts should not serve as a condemnation of America. 

The three stories are all about hate crimes which have occurred within a very short space of time.

 

People murdered because of hate.

 

I wasn't condemning the entire country.

 

Just highlighting recent acts of intolerance.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Bluespunk

[ReMarKable]

5 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Sure!

Please remind me when was the last time Russia tried to invade Western Europe...and the other way round?

I recall WW2

[allanos]

2 hours ago, billsmart said:

From its very beginning, the US is a union of a number of disparate states, a republic, actually. The EU is a union of a number of disparate countries. They each have their own laws, but as part of the union, must comply with the laws of the higher authority: the federal government in the case of the US, and the European Commission in the case of the EU member countries.

One of the challenges being faced by the European "Union" is that the disparate countries you mention have thousands of years of disparate cultures and languages, not to mention national psyches.  In that way it is a diametrically opposite situation that that faced in the USA when bringing the States together; which had, essentially, a common culture and a common language, in a republic founded less than 100 years earlier.

[patsfangr]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I'm not the president. He really is NOT my president. He is only the president of his base, which have proven themselves to be as deplorable and ignorant as advertised. 

I'm overwhelmed by the "logic, intelligence, and tolerance" in your posts, JT. 

[Boon Mee]

32 minutes ago, patsfangr said:

HUH? The only votes the Republican Party is trying to "block" are those from unregistered people, people who are voting more than ONCE, and DEAD people. In other words, illegal votes manufactured by Democrats! 

Voter ID Laws need to enacted throughout the 50 States.

One needs an ID for everything else in life - why do the Democrats call having an ID "Voter Suppression"?

[Brunolem]

5 minutes ago, jcsmith said:

Again this is silly. You are talking about 1/8th of the country living in California. You want to throw out votes from 1/8th of the country to get the result you are hoping for. Only 23 states have a population of more than 5 million people, 7 states have less than 1 million total people. California has 40 million people.  

I don't want to throw out anything.

 

I am just stating that with more than 4 million votes between Clinton and Trump in California, this was enough to tilt the popular vote in favor of Clinton, which she won by only 3 million votes.

 

Another way of seeing things is to look at the vote result map by district...a see of red, but blue where it matters because of a high density of wealthy population (LA, New York...).

 

[patsfangr]

2 hours ago, abrahamzvi said:

Let us all, Americans and other freedom and justice loving people worldwide, hope that the midterm elections on November 6, will be a positive sign showing that the majority of American people want a unifying leadership.

Yes, by maintaining or increasing the Republican majority in Congress to help President Trump continue implementing our agenda to Make America Great Again! 

[Enoon]

 

There is no "right" or "wrong" to the course of History.

 

At some time in the future there will be no coherent, definable entity called the USA.

 

Just as there is no Babylonian, Roman or Khmer Empire.

 

That time is probably a bit closer than it would have been had Trump not entered the White House.

 

The ground around Gore Vidals grave must be permanently heaving with his laughter.

 

 

[Brunolem]

9 minutes ago, ReMarKable said:

I recall WW2

Not well it seems...that was when Germany tried to invade Russia, who lost millions of soldiers and civilians to repel the invasion...

[ReMarKable]

29 minutes ago, patsfangr said:

Bluespunk, every decent American, regardless of political party, color, religion, etc., is deeply saddened and angered by acts such as this. That said, there are two things you must remember before jumping to conclusions about American society. The USA is a nation of over 300 million people. You'd have to look at a combination of other countries totaling that number - countries where citizens have similar freedoms to enable such acts, to determine whether the USA is "out of control", and/or has become a "bloody battleground". I by no means intend any degree of minimalization of these horrific acts when I say that this sort of thing happens within a population of that size, in a nation where people are free to do things that can help them commit such acts. This could lead to a long discussion of the balance between personal freedoms and the safety of society; but this is not the place for that discussion. I just wanted to make the point that such deplorable individual acts should not serve as a condemnation of America. 

Your right, I blame Trump

[Russell17au]

A true democracy is one that is ruled by the person that wins the populace vote of the people. That is a democracy and America can no longer claim to be a true democracy because the leader of the country was not elected by the populace of the people but was appointed by members of a collage.

[patsfangr]

2 hours ago, billsmart said:

I don't understand your last remark. Are you suggesting that Europe should not try to cope with their problems because they seem "unmanageable?"

Where did he suggest that they should stop trying? You seem to read the words, but fail to comprehend them. The same can obviously be said for your political and economics education. 

[CptnAhab]

13 minutes ago, ReMarKable said:

I recall WW2

Do you remember who attacked whom?  I think german forces were not far from Moscow, before - with much help from the USA(!) - the rebound started...  

[mcambl61]

2 hours ago, Monomial said:

Whether this is the right direction or not is a value choice, and will vary by individual so there is little point in asking the question other than to start a flame war.

well said, it seems these polls are intended for this purpose 

[jcsmith]

13 minutes ago, Boon Mee said:

Voter ID Laws need to enacted throughout the 50 States.

One needs an ID for everything else in life - why do the Democrats call having an ID "Voter Suppression"?

Here's the thing. Trump tried to spin that lie that millions of people voted illegally. He formed a voter fraud commission... Which found next to no evidence of any voter fraud before shutting down. It's not just Voter ID. It's things like requiring an address and not a P.O. Box, of groups who typically do not have one such as Native Americans. It's closing of polling booths in areas likely to vote democrat, or moving the polling booth to far out of town. Overcrowding of voting offices. It's sending out the wrong dates or locations to voters. Gerrymandering. It's situations where politicians are throwing out a disproportionate number of votes from people who are likely to vote in a way they don't wish. That needs to stop.

[Boon Mee]

5 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

A true democracy is one that is ruled by the person that wins the populace vote of the people. That is a democracy and America can no longer claim to be a true democracy because the leader of the country was not elected by the populace of the people but was appointed by members of a collage.

That might be the case somewhere not in the USA.  We have what's called an Electoral College which allows for true Democracy for all States.  Imagine if just California and New York voters were to decide the outcome of a Presidential election?

[Mikeasq60]

Unless your from America mind your business. As far as what the US had for 8 years now that was a mess. And polls are useless remember when Hillary was bound to win, ya right

[allanos]

1 hour ago, billsmart said:

Yes. The problem is that that in the US, "socialism," an economic system, has been inseparably linked to "totalitarianism," which is a governmental system; and "capitalism" has been linked to "democracy." Actually, socialism is the economic system that is most compatible with democracy, and capitalism invariably leads to some type of totalitarianism, like a plutocracy (rule of the rich.)

For those that still don't "get it," socialism is just an economic system where everyone contributes based on their abilities, and everyone receives based on their needs. In contrast, capitalism is an economic system where everyone competes and rather than contribute, take, and everyone receives based on their abilities.

Socialism is the same model most families follow. Everyone does whatever they can to help. and all share in whatever the family has. Capitalism is like the Law of the Jungle. The strong excel while the weak suffer or die. 

That's why I am a socialist.

Read "Animal Farm", by George Orwell.  It should be required reading in every high school the world over.

[Brunolem]

2 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

the leader of the country was not elected by the populace of the people but was appointed by members of a collage.

Which is still better than being appointed by the Supreme Court like Bush junior!

 

More generally, a democracy is more than giving the populace the choice between Pepsi Cola and Coca Cola!

 

Political changes that take place in Europe (France, Italy, Greece...) would never be possible in the US with its two party system, where outsiders have no way to reach positions of power.

[patsfangr]

2 hours ago, Bundooman said:

The benefits of the economy you are brazenly quoting are the results of the Obama Administration old boy. Everyone else in the world knows that.....except yo and your fellow Republicans. 

Regards,

A non-American TV poster!

 

LOL! Where do you get your economic news? The tax cuts, reductions in federal regulations, business confidence in putting the brakes on socialism are the reasons for the economic turnaround in America. To believe otherwise is foolish.