Visa letter effects - how widespread?

[watgate]

i can deposit 800k TB into a Thai bank but have to finally decide if Thailand is really in my future for me. The handwriting appears to be on the wall and the get tough attitude of  Thai immigration speaks volumes. I think the Thai gov't doesn't really want a long stay unless they have big bucks. I can definitely see mandatory health insurance down the road and if one can not get it due to pre-existing conditions too bad. If thai immigration comes up with a workable solution where folks can combine their income and assets to meet the eligibility requirements then maybe I will re-evaluate my opinion. I am also  of the opinion that the asset and income limits will be raised to clean out  more of the undesireables and will the government grandfather folks who are already in the system or will they take a different approach next time? I am going to research Mexico, it  is a lot closer to me where I reside for several months of  the year in the US. Thailand was a fun place when I first starting coming here but times are changing so one has to do what is best for them.

[watgate]

i can deposit 800k TB into a Thai bank but have to finally decide if Thailand is really in my future for me. The handwriting appears to be on the wall and the get tough attitude of  Thai immigration speaks volumes. I think the Thai gov't doesn't really want a long stay unless they have big bucks. I can definitely see mandatory health insurance down the road and if one can not get it due to pre-existing conditions too bad. If thai immigration comes up with a workable solution where folks can combine their income and assets to meet the eligibility requirements then maybe I will re-evaluate my opinion. I am also  of the opinion that the asset and income limits will be raised to clean out  more of the undesireables and will the government grandfather folks who are already in the system or will they take a different approach next time? I am going to research Mexico, it  is a lot closer to me where I reside for several months of  the year in the US. Thailand was a fun place when I first starting coming here but times are changing so one has to do what is best for them.

[flexomike]

38 minutes ago, Mac98 said:

Right on the border of minimum. My SS is around 68,000 a month. Fine when using letter. But that includes Medicare payment, a legitimate expense. But actual funds that hit Thai bank would be around 63,000 after Medicare and fees. I keep an address with phone and bank account in States to keep Medicare active and go home once a year for physical and visit. With funds going to Thai bank SS would cancel my Medicare coverage, but still deduct funds. Also making payments on credit cards out of Thai bank would get them canceled as you have to be a resident of USA. So I guess I'll be a resident of USA and visit Thailand on tourist visas. Now what to do about my lease?

   I also know a wheelchair bound retiree in CM who won't qualify now and gets round the clock care for a month here at the cost of a day or two in the States. 

Social Security does not cancel your Medicare Part B for having your funds sent to Thailand, you have to put in a request to cancel it. Granted you cannot use it outside of the US but if you are going home once a year it is still usable there. If you are talking about the supplemental to Part B that is a different story

 

[Lacessit]

There are several Americans in my condo who will obviously be affected, because there is no way their US pensions meet the 65,000 baht /month requirement, and they don't have any other assets. Presumably they have been getting a BS letter from the US consulate for some years. No more. So yes, I think quite a lot of people could be affected by the change in requirements.

Fortunately, I can meet the 800K criteria without stress. I do worry about a couple of my friends who are on the edge.

Possibly the Thai authorities have shot themselves in the foot. Retirees who were below their criteria, but were still contributing to the Thai economy, will be lost to Thailand.

Som nam na.

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

stand corrected.  I estimated 3 people.  But there are more people living here from paycheck to paycheck that I would have ever imagined.  I don't buy the, "my millions of dollars are invested or I don't trust Thai banks" excuse because it's not rational.  If you don't put the 800 the bank it's because you can't.  Many more folks than i thought. 

No body cares what you 'buy into' There are many people I personally know who have the income stream and do not want to put any  money into a Thai Bank- including myself. You have no idea how much any of us have including myself so please stop  posting nonsense.  I could explain it to you but your prejudicial attitude wouldn't accept it anyway.

[southsideBruce]

I have had three retirement extensions for my Non-O visa, and used the American Embassy notarized retirement income letter each time... my current one expires in August... I am planning to move money into my Thai bank account from the States to get it to the 800,000 THB level by April...  I never wanted to have that much money in Thailand, but for now that is what I will need to do... maybe I will be able to find a Thai bank account that offers decent interest for that relatively big chunk o' money, but have read you have to be careful using those types of accounts (Certificates of Deposit, etc) with the retirement extension... I always figured there was a percentage (my guess was about 12%) of farangs who lied on those documents - that they didn't have the retirement income that they claimed they had... guess its the skeptic in me... and I wonder what will happen with the visa companies that help you with the 800,000 THB (for a non-modest fee)?  Will the Thai gov't, BIG JOKE, crack down on those visa assist companies?  If so, I wonder how many farangs that will affect?  I don't see the Thailand real estate market or any other Thailand financial market being adversely affected by the new stricter rules... As someone mentioned, there is always the (invading) Chinese (hoards) and their money - BUT, will the recent Chinese stock market downturn mess up that Thailand sureTHING investment?  

[gunderhill]

21 hours ago, billd766 said:

I have a friend who is property rich and cash poor. He has a couple of properties for sale but nobody is buying.

In which case the price is too high, people  will always buy if the price is right.

[Henricus]

21 hours ago, kenk24 said:

Tough spot - I think for most sellers it is a long way down to reach true market value...

true market value...Your House,Condo and even your car is not worth more, than the buyer will give you.

True market value what is TRUE 

 

[Pdavies99]

I have a good friend, British age 77, married to a Thai lady age 70. They have a 5 million baht oldish house paid for.

 

He does not drink and there outgoings are very low, he has after recent health costs 400k in the bank and a UK pension income of £600 monthly, on that they live comfortably.

 

He has tried to sell the property for as low as 2 million, but nobody is interested as there are far too many properties available.

 

However now because of the impending rules what can he do?

[CharlieH]

2 minutes ago, Pdavies99 said:

I have a good friend, British age 77, married to a Thai lady age 70. They have a 5 million baht oldish house paid for.

 

He does not drink and there outgoings are very low, he has after recent health costs 400k in the bank and a UK pension income of £600 monthly, on that they live comfortably.

 

However now because of the impending rules what can he do?

He has no problem, on the basis of Marriage to a Thai,  he has the required 400k in the bank. ????

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

No body cares what you 'buy into' There are many people I personally know who have the income stream and do not want to put any  money into a Thai Bank- including myself. You have no idea how much any of us have including myself so please stop  posting nonsense.  I could explain it to you but your prejudicial attitude wouldn't accept it anyway.

I have met a lot of people who believed things that were irrational and would not change those beliefs regardless of the evidence produced.  If you have enough money to live in a foreign country you have enough money to put 25 grand in a Thai bank.  If you don't have enough money to put 25 grand in a Thai bank or a verified pension you don't have enough money to live in Thailand. I have no attitude, that is the rules of immigration.  

 

Motivation is of course a different subject.  I can't read minds.  I can say what is reasonable and what is not.  There are enough threads in the Banking forum to decide on the viability of Thai banks.

[ianf]

On 10/28/2018 at 8:29 PM, marcusarelus said:

The only ones I know are posting on Thai Visa.  20 or 30.  Somewhere I read how many the BE processed maybe a couple of thousand a year but I'm not sure but it was mentioned.  My estimate would be over 1000 and under 5000 and out of that I think 3 will actually leave Thailand. 

British Embassy said 250 a week x 50 = 12500.

I know many people badly affected by this, myself included.

[totally thaied up]

Today I went to Bangkok Bank, opened up another account, no ATM and moved 400K I had in my joint account, to be just under my name. I wanted no ATM card, I have locked this money away so that is it now. Now I just hope they do not raise the limit.

 

I can see this happening across a wide set of accounts now. I am Australian but I don't trust my Embassy enough or the Thai officials enough to say, I would be safe any other way. I use to have the money in a Joint account with my wife but she told me, lets put this money to the side now and just forget about it. She in fact, offered to sell off a small parcel of land that has had offers on to put 500K in the bank for me. I told her no, that we should hold onto this land just in case we need the money in the future if limits get raised. We had plans to put some housing on 4 Rai of land and sell them off just two at a time within the next 5 years. Now, this will be on the back burner while I look at the political climate and how these Visa issues met out over the next year or two.

 

On my Facebook page, I am seeing on certain expat pages turning into the 'farangs are not wanted' (as they are not properly monitored) and many people that have been wanting to retire to Thailand are now second-guessing the move and other Countries are now seeming to be favored due to better Immigration standards and a stream to be able to get PR.

 

Thailand is shooting itself in the foot. Sure, if they want to lift or harshen up the requirements, sure they can do it but if they gave back a bit in return for some hard-earned dollars, those of us with wives and family would welcome it. If they asked me for say a 200K requirement with a chance for PR and some form of basic health benefit for me to pay into, I would do it in a flash. I think a lot of us would. 

 

I know a few Condos in town that are going to start losing farangs because a large percentage of them don't have the dollars. Most bring in around 40K-65K a month but have no hard cash certainty. I lived in one such Condo for three years and it is going to effect a few of these guys. 

 

Another guy who I know that is loaded but lives a life generally like a monk here, lives on 20,000 a month but has a pension of over 80K. He does not want to bring in the 800K (for his own reasoning) but he is more than good for it and has overseas health insurance. He is talking about Vietnam. So, these are just a few friends of mine and if this also on the end effects Australians, my list will get a lot longer of those looking for another place with better options to go to. I gather a lot will just bring in the money now in an 800K bundle but just from a sit down around the table today with a group of my friends, they certainly don't like the idea. 

[mercman24]

post 21 where did you get 20,000 uk pounds and 40,000 uk pounds from. i am in a similiar position to you, retirement.a bit bigger pension, with pensioin and thai bank monies deposited you need about 7500 uk pounds about 220,000 baht, i have money in the UK and that is where its going to stay, until nov next year

[namatjira]

On 10/28/2018 at 10:27 PM, NCC1701A said:

it has zero affect on me. and I don't know anyone who has been affected. 

 

but I am an retired American with a fare amount of money and my friends in Thailand are similar to me.  

 

I think a lot of people here on Thai visa over estimate the finical impact western Expats have on the real estate market.  

 

The Chinese are stepping in to grab up everything. And the Thais will keep over building which is good for me as it keeps rents low for decades to come.

 

I am sorry I am better off than some here TV and many get triggered reading about my posts about having money.

 

 

Wow to be fair we have a modest American , would you believe it,

hes sad that he’s so rich.......humble all the way through to his heart. Love these American tycoons .

[NCC1701A]

13 minutes ago, namatjira said:

Wow to be fair we have a modest American , would you believe it,

hes sad that he’s so rich.......humble all the way through to his heart. Love these American tycoons .

see what i mean.

[NCC1701A]

56 minutes ago, namatjira said:

Wow to be fair we have a modest American , would you believe it,

hes sad that he’s so rich.......humble all the way through to his heart. Love these American tycoons .

i forgot to mention I am very good looking too. 

 

and you see, just because you hate me because I have a little bit of money and planned well for my retirement does not mean I can't share that information with others. these changes have no effect upon me. sorry. i know it is hard for you to believe, but there are people here in Thailand who have zero problems with going to immigration, organizing a small amount of paperwork for one hour one day a year, opening bank accounts, having health insurance and basically doing their homework on all the pitfalls of Thailand like "buying" a house and the bar girl thing.  

 

and so you know, I am not even writing these comments, my staff is, I just approve them.

[DJ54]

Not yet but I’ve only no friends in the village my friend pass away 

other than that one other but he gets Social Security and a pension 

so no problem.

[chicowoodduck]

I saw the writing on the wall along time ago....and had the common sense to get my ducks in a row and aim the rocket ship to another part of the World.   Hang on folks, it will only be getting worse....????????

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, chicowoodduck said:

I saw the writing on the wall along time ago....and had the common sense to get my ducks in a row and aim the rocket ship to another part of the World.   Hang on folks, it will only be getting worse....????????

Only a couple of months ago you were telling us how easy it was to get from the airport to Pattaya.  Oh boy how things change. 

[sirineou]

14 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

Pretty sure the immigration would want a copy, I'd hesitate giving them a copy of me 1040.

I am not sure if this is an option , I don't do extensions to stay yet, but the IRS for a small fee will mail you a tax return transcript. There are a few different type and have limited information in them.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/tax-return-transcript-types-and-ways-to-order-them

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

am not sure if this is an option , I don't do extensions to stay yet, but the IRS for a small fee will mail you a tax return transcript. There are a few different type and have limited information in them.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/tax-return-transcript-types-and-ways-to-order-them

Thank you for a positive suggestion- certainly another piece of proof that could be used and  easy to read.

[Lucky mike]

On 10/28/2018 at 9:58 PM, billd766 said:

I have a friend who is property rich and cash poor. He has a couple of properties for sale but nobody is buying.

Price fixes all!

[KenKadz]

kenk24, please be more specific, I assume you are talking about the Income Affidavit/Letter issued by the embassies.

I do not think the Thai Immigration income requirements have changed, for retirement and/or family visas.

As far as I know what has changed is the British and American Embassies refusal to provide Income Affidavits to their citizens, after many years of providing these services, without requiring proof of income documentation for verification, essentially lying to Thai Immigration Department, and making handsome profits in the process.

The Thai Immigration requirements have always been reasonable.

My problem is with the unprofessional response of the embassies involved that are refusing to provide income affidavits to their citizens, as required by Thai Immigration regulations, now that Thai Immigration is demanding these embassies meet their professional obligation by verifying each applicant's income.

FYI: I would suggest to American citizens that are unhappy with this situation contact their state's Congressional  Representatives (Senate - House of Representative) offices to file a complaint.

[Mac98]

20 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

I have met a lot of people who believed things that were irrational and would not change those beliefs regardless of the evidence produced.  If you have enough money to live in a foreign country you have enough money to put 25 grand in a Thai bank.  If you don't have enough money to put 25 grand in a Thai bank or a verified pension you don't have enough money to live in Thailand. I have no attitude, that is the rules of immigration.  

 

Motivation is of course a different subject.  I can't read minds.  I can say what is reasonable and what is not.  There are enough threads in the Banking forum to decide on the viability of Thai banks.

People flee to third-world countries to live because they DON'T have piles of cash. You think only the upper crust seeks refuge in SE Asia? According to the Wall Street Journal 49% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck with no significant savings. How can you save when minimum expenses exceed maximum income? Now which half of Americans, upon retirement, are more likely to seek out an alternative, where they can live decently. And who knows, actually have some left over to put in a bank!

[sletraveler]

Complaining to “representatives “ is a waste of time. They only serve their paying benefactors.  I see this as just one more instance of the government providing one less service to average citizens.  They would have made money on it, and they certainly could have demanded written proof of income and called it good if provided.  

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Mac98 said:

People flee to third-world countries to live because they DON'T have piles of cash. You think only the upper crust seeks refuge in SE Asia? According to the Wall Street Journal 49% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck with no significant savings. How can you save when minimum expenses exceed maximum income? Now which half of Americans, upon retirement, are more likely to seek out an alternative, where they can live decently. And who knows, actually have some left over to put in a bank!

25 grand is not a pile of cash.  49% of Americans can't afford to vacation in Thailand let alone move here.  It's not a third world country.  https://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/third_world.htm

[Sheryl]

I read somewhere that one of the Embassies - I forget if UK or US - currently issues 3000 letters a year. If we assume about equal for both then up to 6000 people.

 

But these are spread out all over Thailand. And not all of them will have significant difficulty as a result of the change.

 

Those who do, will be those without 65k/mo income and without the ability to put 800K in the bank for 3 months (or combo method of both, e.g. 50K/mo income and 200K in the bank). Those people are not likely to be condo owners.

 

You are not going to see any effect on property market and businesses IMO. But there  well be iat least some individuals and families who undergo personal hardship.

[totally thaied up]

2 hours ago, Mac98 said:

People flee to third-world countries to live because they DON'T have piles of cash. You think only the upper crust seeks refuge in SE Asia? According to the Wall Street Journal 49% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck with no significant savings. How can you save when minimum expenses exceed maximum income? Now which half of Americans, upon retirement, are more likely to seek out an alternative, where they can live decently. And who knows, actually have some left over to put in a bank!

Yes, America is not the only Country with its folks living paycheck to paycheck.  Australia is much the same. My middle-class friends (at my age of 49) all have AUD$700K  mortgages over there heads and if they lost their jobs (like I did due to sickness), they would be sweating bullets. My parents just have paid over a million dollars to move into a Condo with care! My poorer friends in Australia live day to day or from dole payment to dole payment. It is pretty harsh but I do not know anyone that does not have a bank loan out... period.

 

I am in one Facebook group with around 470K members in it and another with 56K members in it. Both groups agree with one thing; around 50% of them (many that are Americans telling us regularly) they are living paycheck to paycheck. The groups are for mental health and the biggest problem to date is money stress. It seems to be one of the largest factors in stress and making people sick. A lot of people (farang) that I do know here do not have much more than USD$400K in the bank. This is just in my circle of friends (say a mixture of different branches of people) and the biggest toll on them has been divorce. I only know one guy my age that has a few million in his bank but he does not spend all his time here in Thailand. He has better places to go. 

 

Compared to most my friends, I am within the future, will be a lot better off than them but do kid yourself, money stress is one the biggest problems around and any foreseeable changes coming with Visa requirements, will affect people in different ways and will have person hardship like Sheryl has mentioned.

 

And yes, as far as my parents are concerned (they are that upper crust Mac98 mentions), Thailand is good for a week but to retire, a nice beach house residence with world class free health care system tops the list when you are in there 80's (like they are now). Travel is the last thing from there mind. Once you hit that 80 mark, you tend to slow down so like my father tells me now, make the most of being young.

[Mac98]

4 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

25 grand is not a pile of cash.  49% of Americans can't afford to vacation in Thailand let alone move here.  It's not a third world country.  https://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/third_world.htm

I'm part of the 49% and vacationed here for 20 years before taking a lease. All I had to do is shut down my utilities while gone for at least three months and it paid all my time here. And the food and medications are cheaper.