Reporting residence after one night away?

[beddhist]

This looks scary to me: https://www.thephuketnews.com/better-if-you-do-phuket-immigration-chief-urges-foreigners-to-re-register-addresses-even-if-staying-off-island-just-one-night-65744.php

 

I'm staying with my inlaws. None of us knew about this law. We are in the North of Suphanburi province. To obtain a driver's licence I needed a piece of paper showing my residence. We obtained a form (TM30?) from Singburi Immigration, got father-in-law to complete it and make out an authorisation as well, but when trying to turn this into a proof of residence they said they can't do it, wrong province. So we went to Suphanburi, about a 160 km round trip. My wife never presented the form to them, instead they made one up with my photo on it, cost 700B, no receipt. With this I got my licence.

 

It was only after this that I started learning about the TM30 and 24-h reporting. The way I understand the article, every time I spend a day away from home my father-in-law has to report my residence in person at the Suphanburi office. I'm sure when he finds out about this he will tell me to leave. I would. And if I had to do it myself I would leave.

 

My wife rung the Suphanburi office to ask about this. They confirmed it and said that now a 800B fine is due.

 

Now, apparently the law says:

Quote

within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office located in that area, the local police official for that area must be notified.

What exactly does "area" mean? Province, Amphoe, Tambon? x km from my home? Do I just play dumb and report to the nearest cop shop? Do they need to give me a receipt?

 

What does the house master have to do if the 24 h period falls on a weekend, when the office is closed?

 

Am I worrying to much?

 

Kind regards,

Peter.

[Peterw42]

OP, your post is a little hard to follow as to where you live and where you visited for one night.

Where you live, where you do your extension/90 days etc is where you do a TM30, technically within 24 hours of arrival or a trip away. Some immigration offices are strict, others dont care. If you dont change your address etc, most offices will only want a new TM30 if you leave thailand and return. 

A night at a different location usually doesnt require a TM30 report at the temporary location, unless you are visiting that immigration later, then they may ask why you didnt report on arrival.

Where you live permanently is also the office that would issue a Resident certificate for license etc. Its not clear but it appears you have gone to an office where dont live to try and get a Res Cert.

 

[wgdanson]

7 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

If you dont change your address etc, most offices will only want a new TM30 if you leave thailand and return

Never done one in Phitsanulok, and been in & out of Thailand 5 times in 6 years. Move to Phitsanulok!

[beddhist]

Yes, we went to the "wrong" office first. Originally, the family were going to put my name on their house register, but that required the personal attendance of a government officer and the village head man. Unfortunately, the latter is said to be so corrupt, my family refuses to have anything to do with him.

 

My question is not about filing a TM30 for temp accommodation. Accommodation providers are responsible for that. But the way I understand the law, every time I spend one night in accommodation somewhere else another trip to Suphanburi is required. At least that's what I understand reading the article in the paper. At the very least, it would require printing out two forms, getting father-in-law to sign both and then me taking this to the office - or a cop shop, I don't know whether the latter is an option for me. For now no TM30 has been filed anywhere.

[gunderhill]

9 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Never done one in Phitsanulok, and been in & out of Thailand 5 times in 6 years. Move to Phitsanulok!

Never done  one at Hua Hin either, just hope it stays that way although  judging by recent  immigration changes  maybe they will start to enforce this"nonsense"

[ubonjoe]

32 minutes ago, beddhist said:

My question is not about filing a TM30 for temp accommodation. Accommodation providers are responsible for that. But the way I understand the law, every time I spend one night in accommodation somewhere else another trip to Suphanburi is required.

Did you notice that is a Phuket news site and the it is dated "Saturday 27 January 2018".

The question would be how immigration would know you stayed somewhere else than your registered address. That is why immigration does not enforce it.

 

[beddhist]

Yes, I saw both of that. I don't understand how that is relevant, though, as in theory the rules should be the same everywhere. Hotels make these reports, so that's how they could know - in theory. (Yes, I know, TiT.)

 

Singburi looked like a very professional setup, with posters detailing how many minutes the processing of each application was going to take. They would have accepted our TM30 without a fine (many weeks overdue), but wrong province.

 

So I guess my next question is: if we don't file any TM30 can I still do my first 90 day reporting online? Or should we just make a new one, pretending I only just arrived? Or report to the cops? I just don't know where I stand and what I should do. I have a one year retirement visa from NZ.

[steve73]

There is still loads of confusion about this...

 

As I understand it, you should (although it is rarely enforced) submit a TM28 within 24 hours of staying outside of your "home" province.  Your temporary accommodation provider should register you via the TM30 system.  When you return to your "home" you should provide a new TM28 and TM30.

TM28 are in practice rarely required - if you do try to submit one they usually won't accept it, and require you (as opposed to the accommodation provider) to register using a TM30.

 

This raises 2 anomalies... If you stay in a temporary accommodation (eg. Hotel or Hospital) within your home province, and they register you, then you MAY need to re-register when you return to your normal place of residence (even though you have not left your home province, and therefore shouldn't need to legally).  They may hit you for a fine next time you try to do a 90 day report or extension.

 

Secondly, if you stay with friends, or in smaller guest houses that don't register foreign guests (i.e. use your local partner's ID to register), etc., but in a different province, then your "home" I/O will never know you've left your province, and you will not need to re-register on your return.  Any attempt to do so may add complications.

 

There are many other situations where the TM28/30 system could become totally unworkable.  If you're enjoying a travelling holiday visiting many places and provinces, the need to find and travel to the nearest I/O in order to submit your TM28 may involve much back-tracking (sometimes over 100km), and many provinces share I/O's with another province. 

 

I know a few people who live (registered) in BKK, but leave every weekend to another province.  They are unable to register at the weekend I/O (since it's closed) and would need to take every monday morning off work to re-register back in BKK.  

Also, one who is formally registered at his wife's home, yet spends most of the time with either his mia noi (in a different province), or in a hotel with his gik.... If he correctly followed the required procedures, he'd have no time with any of them, and they'd all accuse him of having an affair with one or other of the I/O officers.

 

...And of course every I/O applies the rules slightly differently...!

[beddhist]

Great, now I'm totally confused. I think I will do nothing for now and see what happens when I do my fist 90 report online.

 

Plan B: take a hotel room in Singburi, then I can do my visa extension there.

 

If I get my name on the tabien baan, does anything change? (I see potential for lots more confusion!)

[ubonjoe]

27 minutes ago, beddhist said:

So I guess my next question is: if we don't file any TM30 can I still do my first 90 day reporting online? Or should we just make a new one, pretending I only just arrived? Or report to the cops? I just don't know where I stand and what I should do. I have a one year retirement visa from NZ.

 

4 minutes ago, beddhist said:

Great, now I'm totally confused. I think I will do nothing for now and see what happens when I do my fist 90 report online.

 

I am little confused also. You have mentioned two different provinces.

Do you live in Suphanburi?

If yes. If you have already done a TM30 report to them there should be no reason to do another one before you do your 90 day report. Best to do your first report in person though. They may disprove it since they will have no record of you doing a report to them before.

 

20 minutes ago, beddhist said:

 

If I get my name on the tabien baan, does anything change? (I see potential for lots more confusion!)

You name cannot be in a ;blue tambien baan. Only Thais and those with permanent residency can be shown in one. You could get a yellow house book based upon the families house book.

Getting a yellow house book will not change anything to with immigration. It is mostly only good for providing proof of residence for drivers licenses, opening a bank account and etc.

[steve73]

beddhist....

My apologies if my previous post confused you.. it was meant to demonstrate the absurdity of the current system, into which you are now embroiled.

 

Are you here on an extension of permission to stay, or on an O-A visa? (I think, these are the only possible ways you can remain for more than 90 days, so needing to make a 90 day report.)

If you are here on an extension of a PtS, you should do your 90 day report wherever you did your extension (unless you have formally changed it to a new address).

If you're on a O-A, and you haven't yet done a 90 day report, then you must first formally register your permanent address (TM30), and use this on your 90day reports.. Some I/O's don't let you use a "temporary" address such as a hotel though.

If you're staying permanently with family, you can submit your own TM30 (provided you have signed copies of the housemasters ID, and the house blue book) - they don't need to do it themselves. 

btw, you cannot be entered into a Blue book... it's only for Thai's, although in some instances you can get a yellow book and be entered into this (although from what I understand, it's a lot or trouble, CAN be a high cost in brown envelopes, and doesn't really provide any benefits - cue other opinions here..)

 

You need to visit the I/O in the same province as the address you're registering (although some provinces share I/O's), even though it may not be the closest.  If you're trying to get a driving license, you will probably (I have heard otherwise) need to use the land transport office in the same province as your residence certificate (i.e. where you are formally/permanently registered.

 

You may be able to do your 90 day reports on-line to save you actually needing to visit your "registered" office, providing you've done at least one in person. 

The safest bet (as I alluded to in my previous post), is to keep just one formally registered address, and try to avoid being "temporarily" registered in other provinces..

Good luck..

[beddhist]

We live in Suphanburi province, the far North. I have never officially reported my address (TM28/30, no idea what they really are). But  the Suphanburi office gave me a form (cert. of residence?) with which I got my d/ls.

[beddhist]

@ steve73: Thanks for the clarification. I'm on a retirement visa. I didn't know I had to do the first 90-day report in person. What bits of paper do I need for that one?

 

The way I understand it now I had better get a TM30 done asap. I guess I can put on any date I want, so the 24h are complied with?

 

My wife does all the talking in the I/Os...

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, beddhist said:

We live in Suphanburi province, the far North. I have never officially reported my address (TM28/30, no idea what they really are). But  the Suphanburi office gave me a form (cert. of residence?) with which I got my d/ls.

That means they may not want a TM30 form. They may of done the registration when you got the certificate of residency.

You can download one by clicking this. TM30 Form Notification of aliens staying at a residence

 

 

[beddhist]

'fraid knot! My wife rung them and explained what had happened and they said yes, they want the form and we now owe them 700B. I'm banking on them not remembering any of that. In any case, we are about to go on a trip, so I will truthfully report back on arrival.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, beddhist said:

I'm on a retirement visa. I didn't know I had to do the first 90-day report in person. What bits of paper do I need for that one?

I think you have a OA long stay visa issued by an embassy or official consulate.

You will need a completed TM47 form and your passport to do the 90 day report. Download this: TM47 Form Fillable.pdf

[beddhist]

Got it, thanks!

[steve73]

1 hour ago, beddhist said:

'fraid knot! My wife rung them and explained what had happened and they said yes, they want the form and we now owe them 700B. I'm banking on them not remembering any of that. In any case, we are about to go on a trip, so I will truthfully report back on arrival.

When you do submit your TM30 (with the copies I mentioned previously) make sure you get a "Receipt of Address Notification" stapled into your passport.  This will make it much easier when you get your extension (if you plan to extend), and probably also when you do your (first) 90 day report in person. 

Might be worth you definitely getting registered elsewhere while you're on your trip (the hotel should do it)... at least this time.

[jak2002003]

Worrying too much.  Maybe you just get a fine if you are unlucky.  In theory you are supposed to report each time you come back home from being away a night.  When you stay in hotels, they all register you are there when they take you passport.  When you get home you go to immigration office to say you are back.

 

In practice the immigration offices only wants you to report to them when you are back in the COUNTRY, after being away.  However, sometimes they might fine you for not reporting if you have been away inside Thailand but this seems to be a very rare, and then the only penalty is the fine.

 

If you stay at a friends house, or someplace this is not a hotel, then the owner of that house should report you staying there to immigration... in THEORY.  

 

Like most things here, there are rule and laws, but the officials pick and choose how to apply or interpret them as the mood takes them.  

 

 

[Kasset Tak]

I asked at Immigration 1 about this and they told me that I only need to do the TM28 to change my address if I stay at another address for more than 14 days... I guess that if all foreigners would go for the tm28 and tm30 and follow the rules to 100% every time we travel, then the Thai immigration need to hire more immigration officers just to take care of all the extra paperwork.

[beddhist]

OK, but that has never stopped a good bureaucrat. I have a feeling Suphanburi will be a stickler for regulations. My wife thinks they are greedy. If we hadn't bought our land yet I would have chosen to buy a few km down the road in Chainat province or in Singburi. Plus they are only half the distance to travel.

 

Now that I have a TM47 for my 90 day reporting (thanks to @ubonjoe) and a TM30 is for reporting by my family, what is a TM28?

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, beddhist said:

what is a TM28

It is a change of address form. You will not need to do one.

[Chicken George]

19 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Did you notice that is a Phuket news site and the it is dated "Saturday 27 January 2018".

The question would be how immigration would know you stayed somewhere else than your registered address. That is why immigration does not enforce it.

 

They know if you stay in a hotel. The jotel registers you.. Chiang Rai are hot on this now. No getting away even one night away. Unless you don't give passport details. Which is almost impossible now.

 

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, Chicken George said:

They know if you stay in a hotel.

I was not writing about stays in a hotel. It was about staying with family and friends and etc.

I you get away from the tourist areas of the country you will find that many small hotels, resorts, guesthouses and etc do not report their guests.

Only the most pedant immigration offices would check to see if a person had stayed in hotel and etc. They have to access and search a dedicated database to get that info.

 

[RasiMike]

When I first moved into my wife's home many moons ago, I went to the Rasi Salai police station to notify of my new abode. Everyone was confused and unsure why I was there so told me not to worry about it - especially with the town 2IC policeman as our close neighbour.

Since it appears that the TM30 requirement is being (haphazardly) enforced of late, I will try again to hand over my form when I get home again in Dec. The Srisaket immigration office is 60kms from our Thai home so I'm hoping my friendly police are up to date on the requirements..... though I have my doubts!

[Golden Brown]

I reside in Chiang Rai and they seem to be enforcing everything at the moment.  I have recently arrived at the in-laws for a holiday and took the mother-in-law along to the Sisaket IO.  She handed over her house book and thai ID card and the IO there duly took my passport and recorded that I was staying at the in-laws and entered a slip in my passport.   No hassle, in and out in 10 minutes.   Quite funny as my mother-in-law is quite elderly and my wife says she gave the IO's some verbal abuse for her having to attend there.

[CMBob]

22 hours ago, beddhist said:

....the way I understand the law....

Best to ignore what the law says and simply find out how your local Immigration office applies it.  All (or many) of the Immigration offices in the various provinces treat the whole TM30 business quite differently....some not even bothering with it and others strictly enforcing it by requiring updating within 24 hours of being away from your registered address (regardless of where you went).

With many posters making a TM30 inquiry or comment without referencing what province they're talking about, the discussion ends up with confusing and contradictory advice.

In Chiangmai, they are requiring a TM30 to be filed for your residence and they are currently requiring updating when you return to your registered residence only after you re-enter the country (i.e., you don't have to update regardless of how long you're gone in-country).  As for the TM28, almost all of those that have been tried to be filed here are handed back with a comment that they don't want them.  Now, as to how even Chiangmai (or any other province) will apply the law next month, your guess is as good as mine.

[Bangkok Barry]

My sister is coming from England next month to stay with me and my wife for a couple of weeks. My brother-in-law is a local plod inspector so we'll let him know. Sorted. I do wonder though if they'll demand proof at immigration that she can support herself while here. I don't know of any other country where border authorities demand that. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

On that subject, it makes no sense at all to me that immigration hasn't yet caught up with the 1970s and realises that almost everyone has a credit card and they often prefer using that instead of cash - even though it might not be the most cost-effective way to travel. But then, who pays cash if they are staying in a hotel for a two-week stay. The demand for proof of cash, therefore, makes no sense at all. But then, this is Thailand where logic has no place. It's all down to uniforms controlling those without.

[Small Joke]

I found this looking for a similar  answer. 

Live in CM. Done the initial report TM30 and then got my 1st annual extension of retirement. Left the country last week with Re entry permit. Returned Friday and stayed in a hotel in BKK. 

Returned to to my home address in CM Saturday night. 

Do I need to do another TM30 or just the next 90 day report dated  from my Friday return. Thanks. 

[Small Joke]

25 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

My sister is coming from England next month to stay with me and my wife for a couple of weeks. My brother-in-law is a local plod inspector so we'll let him know. Sorted. I do wonder though if they'll demand proof at immigration that she can support herself while here. I don't know of any other country where border authorities demand that. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

On that subject, it makes no sense at all to me that immigration hasn't yet caught up with the 1970s and realises that almost everyone has a credit card and they often prefer using that instead of cash - even though it might not be the most cost-effective way to travel. But then, who pays cash if they are staying in a hotel for a two-week stay. The demand for proof of cash, therefore, makes no sense at all. But then, this is Thailand where logic has no place. It's all down to uniforms controlling those without.

Australia demands proof of income plus many other hoops, proof of ongoing employment or business back home, even proof of rent or homeownership when certain nationals apply for a visa, including  Thais, and Philipinos, but not Singaporeans. Basically, any national who cannot get an online Aussie e-visa, has a lot of questions about their finances to prove.