Are vets as good as doctors in this country ? Limping dog, nothing found, pain killer given (forgot antibiotics?)

[l4ml4m]

hello,

 

The dog is limping since 3 days, vet cannot find anything and just gave pain killer.

 

First I do not think that it's smart to give pain killer to a dog that is not crying if not using his paw (and even when using is), because he then might then use it and hurt himself more. Am I right ? How stupid is it to hide a problem with painkillers.

Giving pain killer when not absolutely needed is totally stupid, especially when we don't know what the dog has.

 

Second, I am now wondering if vets are in this country as good as doctors ? Any idea ? Ever been disappointed ? I am as good as this vet, because I used Youtube and did exactly what he did, and just as him, I found nothing.

 

Then I was disappointed, he didn't give antibiotics, the only thing that all doctors seem to know in this country, so maybe they don't do it to dogs ? ????

 

 

Thank you for your help.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2018 by l4ml4m

[Rally123]

1 hour ago, l4ml4m said:

The dog is limping since 3 days, vet cannot find anything and just gave pain killer.

Any doctor would probably do the same for you if you had a limp but couldn't determine why you had it.

[kickstart]

A limp could be a number of things, could be thorn/cut  in the paw pad,, if it is a dog has it been fighting with another, say a Soi dog, any sign of a bite, if the vet can not find any anything more than likely a muscle strain, was the drug a painkiller or an NSAID,non steroidal anti-inflammatory drug, different drugs ,but in Thai the same thing,  Yar-Gair-Bpoout,a bit surprised he did not give the dog an antibiotic, especially as this is Thailand, where antibiotics are used all the time .

As for Thai vets, depends I have a Thai friend of mine who is a vet, with cats and dogs he is good, anything biger ....problems. 

Most TVF members only come across cats and dogs, in  my area we have a lot of dairy cows, and a lot of problems, most vets will only do injections , there are not good with any stomach problems ,no one has a stethoscope ,a lot do not even have a thermometer try  and find a vet to look at a cow with an infected foot, a big problem Thai vets are afraid of getting kicked ,and the might get dirty .

Or a difficult calving, a prolapsed uterus, or anything major and you will have a job finding a good vet, we have one, works at the local agriculture college, have seen him do a C- Section on a cow, and he will often have some of the college students with him, good experience for them ,but if he is away or teaching you to have a serious problem, the next  good vet is 50-60 km away ,this guy is good, as well ,but a long way away  and not always available our average local Thai vet can only deal with the very basic of things, if they went for a job in our own country as a vet, they would not get a foot in the door.  

[wildewillie89]

The 'pain killer' was most likely given to relieve inflammation as mentioned above (Thai and many other countries call them pain killers). Many vets around the world would give them...but yes, there is the idea that a dog can do more harm as he uses the leg a lot more due to not as much discomfort. That is a decision that the vet and owner really need to discuss, re symptoms, how active the dog is, personality, environment etc. Some vets back home will give the drugs short term to help the dog get used to the pain - usually if they have a diagnosis though (as giving them long term is obviously not great for the internal organs). Also how old is the dog, something like growing pains these sorts of drugs are very useful for. But, yes, like Thai doctors, Thai vets don't mind giving unnecessary drugs.

*Should be remembered some dogs are better as masking pain than others. Some dogs will cry, others will hide it, which could potentially create a potential snapping situation when it gets too much for them. If the dog is limping and cant put any weight on the paw/leg, then I would say it is in a fair amount of pain. 

Depends on your vet. Thai education is very much memory rather than critical thinking so if a test doesn't show a positive reading the vet hits a brick wall. Also the dog could have a cut paw but the x-ray will show a loose hip, many Thai vets will automatically refer to the x-ray rather than the cut paw or the timing of symptoms that have never been present before. 

ACL injuries many Thai vets DO have problems diagnosing (many dogs will not use the paw). They believe it is a very uncommon injury for some reason (when it is the most common hind limb injury). Again, that comes down to their training, they just remember words from a book rather than thinking more critically. 99% of vets cant do the relevant surgery to fix an ACL so they don't bother learning to diagnose it. Like doctors in Thailand, you have to try your hardest to find a good one (really a passable one), and stick with them. 

And, yes, the vast majority of vets you see will ask you if you are a vet as you will almost certainly have deeper knowledge than they do on many things. Doctors/vets almost teach us back home, whereas here they tell us. Also our education systems back home prepare us for the real world a lot better. Many Thai universities still accept Wiki, rather than promoting deeper research. Interestingly enough vets are at ease admitting you know more than them sometimes and ask questions or for different research papers if they want to improve (of course many will not care less). Majority of doctors more just tell you to get stuffed as they think they are Gods.  

Edited November 5, 2018 by wildewillie89

[l4ml4m]

8 hours ago, Arjen said:

Hmmm, when a dog limps, and you can not find a good reason for it, (Did they take x-ray, or ultrasound?) it is very good to give a painkiller, and this is not stupid!! And I think your suggestion, giving antibiotics wjhile nothing has been found is really stupid, and a bad idea. In my opinion your vet did the correct thing to do!

 

It is possible the dog has really pain, and when the pain last long enough, the dog will learn to walk well on three legs, even when the pain is not there anymore, the dog will still walk on three legs as it has become his new behaviour. I know a dog in my homecountry, where the owner also refused to give painkiller, when the dog had a small injury on his paw. Months after the injury was healed, the dog was still limping.

 

Better give painkiller.

 

Arjen.

 

 

 

 

yes champion ! I see your logic, give pain killer to hide the pain that was anyway bearable, so you will never know if the dog still feels pain or not. Ridiculous.

 

Pain killers should really be given when dogs really feel pain, not when they do not feel anything if not using paw.

 

 

 

 

[l4ml4m]

7 hours ago, wildewillie89 said:

The 'pain killer' was most likely given to relieve inflammation as mentioned above (Thai and many other countries call them pain killers). Many vets around the world would give them...but yes, there is the idea that a dog can do more harm as he uses the leg a lot more due to not as much discomfort. That is a decision that the vet and owner really need to discuss, re symptoms, how active the dog is, personality, environment etc. Some vets back home will give the drugs short term to help the dog get used to the pain - usually if they have a diagnosis though (as giving them long term is obviously not great for the internal organs). Also how old is the dog, something like growing pains these sorts of drugs are very useful for. But, yes, like Thai doctors, Thai vets don't mind giving unnecessary drugs.

*Should be remembered some dogs are better as masking pain than others. Some dogs will cry, others will hide it, which could potentially create a potential snapping situation when it gets too much for them. If the dog is limping and cant put any weight on the paw/leg, then I would say it is in a fair amount of pain. 

Depends on your vet. Thai education is very much memory rather than critical thinking so if a test doesn't show a positive reading the vet hits a brick wall. Also the dog could have a cut paw but the x-ray will show a loose hip, many Thai vets will automatically refer to the x-ray rather than the cut paw or the timing of symptoms that have never been present before. 

ACL injuries many Thai vets DO have problems diagnosing (many dogs will not use the paw). They believe it is a very uncommon injury for some reason (when it is the most common hind limb injury). Again, that comes down to their training, they just remember words from a book rather than thinking more critically. 99% of vets cant do the relevant surgery to fix an ACL so they don't bother learning to diagnose it. Like doctors in Thailand, you have to try your hardest to find a good one (really a passable one), and stick with them. 

And, yes, the vast majority of vets you see will ask you if you are a vet as you will almost certainly have deeper knowledge than they do on many things. Doctors/vets almost teach us back home, whereas here they tell us. Also our education systems back home prepare us for the real world a lot better. Many Thai universities still accept Wiki, rather than promoting deeper research. Interestingly enough vets are at ease admitting you know more than them sometimes and ask questions or for different research papers if they want to improve (of course many will not care less). Majority of doctors more just tell you to get stuffed as they think they are Gods.  

 

 

Thank you, very smart reply. So I guess that my idea to check by myself thanks to youtube and Internet is a lot better than just going to a stupid vet that has no more brain than what is enough to ask me 1000 thb for doing almost nothing.

 

 

 

[l4ml4m]

28 minutes ago, Arjen said:

Dear mrs.  You see my logic. You ask a question. I just answer your question to my best knowledge.

 

When you know the answer already there is no need to ask a question me thinks.

 

Good luck with your dog. Because I pity him/her.

 

Arjen.

 

 

 

I feel the same for your whole family...

 

As you can read, some other people reply also, but they write something smart:

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1066633-are-vets-as-good-as-doctors-in-this-country-limping-dog-nothing-found-pain-killer-given-forgot-antibiotics/?do=findComment&comment=13531101

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by l4ml4m

[dick dasterdly]

IMO the average vet here is not as good as the average vet in Western countries - BUT there are a few good vets here who, when they do not have the knowledge or resources, will research the subject to obtain more knowledge and/or consult with other vets with more experience in that particular field of expertise.

 

It also has to be remembered that many vets here mostly deal with poor people, and so try to keep the cost as low as possible.

 

One of my dogs broke his leg as a result of being hit by a scooter.  (Before anyone starts on the 'should have been fenced in' etc. comments, they'd be correct of course, but we'd only moved into the house that day and I'd already arranged for gates to be fitted.  Plus, I heard the commotion and so ran out, immediately told the scooter riders that it was my dog and that I'd pay for any medical treatment they needed.)

 

My dog had run home and was limping, so I took him to the vet (I used at the time) who said that he just had a sprain or something.  Every couple of days I took him back to the vet, pointing out that it wasn't improving - but I'm ashamed to admit it took approx. a week before it occurred to me to check that he'd X-rayed the leg, as I'd assumed this would be the first thing he did in view of the circumstances.  Turns out he hadn't.... as he generally dealt with poor people, and so was trying to keep the cost of treatment low.  An X-ray showed that my dog's leg was broken ☹️.

 

On the other hand, far more recently the same dog was eventually diagnosed as having bladder cancer (by the good vet that I use now) following an operation to remove the internal 'lump' ☹️.  My vet said there was nothing more he could do (other than the standard medications) as he didn't have the necessary skills to even attempt to completely remove the malignant lump from the bladder wall, or the facilities to provide radiotherapy treatment - the only options.  But he'd looked into it and there was a vet in Hua Hin and another in Bangkok who may be able to operate further or provide radiation treatment.

 

As pointed out by Wildewillie, "you have to try your hardest to find a good one (really a passable one), and stick with them."

[kickstart]

57 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

IMO the average vet here is not as good as the average vet in Western countries - BUT there are a few good vets here who, when they do not have the knowledge or resources, will research the subject to obtain more knowledge and/or consult with other vets with more experience in that particular field of expertise.

 

It also has to be remembered that many vets here mostly deal with poor people, and so try to keep the cost as low as possible.

 

One of my dogs broke his leg as a result of being hit by a scooter.  (Before anyone starts on the 'should have been fenced in' etc. comments, they'd be correct of course, but we'd only moved into the house that day and I'd already arranged for gates to be fitted.  Plus, I heard the commotion and so ran out, immediately told the scooter riders that it was my dog and that I'd pay for any medical treatment they needed.)

 

My dog had run home and was limping, so I took him to the vet (I used at the time) who said that he just had a sprain or something.  Every couple of days I took him back to the vet, pointing out that it wasn't improving - but I'm ashamed to admit it took approx. a week before it occurred to me to check that he'd X-rayed the leg, as I'd assumed this would be the first thing he did in view of the circumstances.  Turns out he hadn't.... as he generally dealt with poor people, and so was trying to keep the cost of treatment low.  An X-ray showed that my dog's leg was broken ☹️.

 

On the other hand, far more recently the same dog was eventually diagnosed as having bladder cancer (by the good vet that I use now) following an operation to remove the internal 'lump' ☹️.  My vet said there was nothing more he could do (other than the standard medications) as he didn't have the necessary skills to even attempt to completely remove the malignant lump from the bladder wall, or the facilities to provide radiotherapy treatment - the only options.  But he'd looked into it and there was a vet in Hua Hin and another in Bangkok who may be able to operate further or provide radiation treatment.

 

As pointed out by Wildewillie, "you have to try your hardest to find a good one (really a passable one), and stick with them."

You are right they are a few good vets in Thailand, but the problem is finding one, the question of x-rays has come up a few times, I live in a ruale area none of the vets in this area  have an x-ray equipment ,I would say it would be a 50-60 km journey to find a vet with an x-ray machine.

So our local vets as I said before are good for injections, if they can diagnose the symptoms right, or spying bitches, castrating dogs or doing intestinal operations, for when undigested bones get stuck and block the digestive tract, anything else that can not be cured with injections or a simple operation ,and the owner or the family, do not have any transport the dog will be RIP .

Reading in past posts ,and on the pets forum you pet owners do all right ,you become a dairy farmer, where the cows are you living ,a vet miss diagnosing, not using the right drugs, or wrong quantity of the drug, or too lazy to treat the cow (like giving IV fluid to a cow with tick fever, which does help the curing prosses ), or too lazy  to trim a cows foot, because it is hard work, it happens all the time,  the cow dies that is up to 50 000 baht's worth of cow being sold for 6 000 baht dead , then you would realize how bad Thai vets are .

[kekalot]

I don't have perfect answer to this but here is mine:

 

I have found that the only time I was satisfied with veterinarians here is when I went to University ones like Kasetart University does in Hua Hin

I brought my dog there to do teeth cleaning and also a second time to stitch his ears after draining an hematoma. both times they didn't jack the prices or give me nonsense medications

 

my friends dog had an issue with his eyes which I am pretty sure that his tear ducts were blocked (no tears) and THREE different little local vets just looked, took some stupid little eye drops and some antibiotics.. not expensive but waste of time

antibiotics will not unblock his tear ducts and using the drops is temporary relief.. by the second time I told her "if she just looks at his eyes and goes behind to get some stuff, walk away". but my friend trusts them too much and said "maybe last time I didn't do it properly". absolutely nothing changed and it was a waste of time and money all three time.

 

I had to bring her dogs for shots at another local one and all three times that we went there, as soon as the dog was in the door they would pick him up and run away to another little office with him.. then do whatever they wanted without asking if it was okay fine and then present a bill.

 

I got annoyed the first time, asked my friend to tell them that I don't like them doing that and they should ask first.

he had some hair missing on the head with some scabs: i made the mistake of asking if they THOUGHT it was mange.. they took the dog away, came back after cutting a bit of his skin off his head, said it wasn't mange and charged me for it (30 seconds,  100 baht) and then wanted to try to sell me some kind of 450 baht medicine.

 

it seems my friend doesn't like confronting them or telling them not to do that.. she kept saying "you think too much" and talk too much so I told her that she should pay for it then since I was doing all this for her (otherwise the dog wouldn't have his shots)

 

last time, she listened to me, told them to tell me upfront what the cost would be and what they are doing.. rabies shot 280 baht (can't remember exactly) then I said OK, they do it. I pay and bye.