Thai roads need central barriers to minimise impact of accidents: experts

[kwilco]

5 hours ago, Jimdandy said:

Should read 'Thai roads need central barriers so drivers can crash into them until the government figures out that cosmetic changes will do nothing to decrease roadside fatalities until they increase driver education and have a dedicated Highway Patrol'.

Yet another profoundly uninformed comment based on a single issue erroneous premise.

[stanleycoin]

11 hours ago, kwilco said:

Concrete??? Do you understand how an Armco barrier works?????

 

Have you ever wondered why concrete barriers are hardly ever used on race tracks??

 

 

II pinoted out a couple of years back that several new roads are using armco and it is also being fitted on somevildervroads.

In many places it is a case of trying to make a silk purse out of a sis ear....especially if not deployed correctly....However if set up right it can handle an 18 wheeler at speed.

Yes Armco is so impotent , 

when driving,  or riding the wrong way up the carriageway. 

 

Your not going to fix extreme, retarded behaviour with Armco.

 

But new orders for Mercedes-Benz and BMW cars, will be coming. 

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by stanleycoin

[Fex Bluse]

They need to look at the problem in a comprehensive way. But Thais almost never do as they favor incremental changes. 

 

The entire system is faulty because all the people in the system are faulty. 

 

Drivers

The worst drivers are often the wealthy. Ever noticed that the expensive autos drive the most recklessly? 

 

Thais drive too fast. They have no awareness of proper road speed. I see people driving in car parks and small sois like they are on expressway. 

 

Roads

Bad surfacing

Bad or no lane painting

Bad signage

Bad lightning

Bad design - u-turns! 

 

Police

Nothing to say here 

[nputman]

Ah common and take away the opportunity to kill someone wanting to turn off the hwy. 

At least 20 have been killed on a short section of 4 lane hwy close to my home in the last 2 years due to cars using the center turn lane as their own private passing lane. 

 

 

[stanleycoin]

14 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

They need to look at the problem in a comprehensive way. But Thais almost never do as they favor incremental changes. 

 

The entire system is faulty because all the people in the system are faulty. 

 

Drivers

The worst drivers are often the wealthy. Ever noticed that the expensive autos drive the most recklessly? 

 

Thais drive too fast. They have no awareness of proper road speed. I see people driving in car parks and small sois like they are on expressway. 

 

Roads

Bad surfacing

Bad or no lane painting

Bad signage

Bad lightning

Bad design - u-turns! 

 

Police

Nothing to say here 

All very nice. 

But, there is only one thing they care about in Thailand

Money.

That's the place it needs to start.

the rest is just pissing in the wind.

 

I don't believe the rich drive any worse than the poor.

apart from the rich idiots,  may have a faster vehicle.

But they both,   don't care a toss on the roads. 

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by stanleycoin

[wealthychef]

I wonder if the investigating commission knows the high percentage of Thai drivers that simply bribed their way into a drivers license here.  I still think the most important piece for improving road safety is to address the lack of integrity in enforcing the basic laws of the road, and having a valid license is part of that.  

[wealthychef]

1 hour ago, nputman said:

Ah common and take away the opportunity to kill someone wanting to turn off the hwy. 

At least 20 have been killed on a short section of 4 lane hwy close to my home in the last 2 years due to cars using the center turn lane as their own private passing lane. 

 

 

Seems like this could be avoided by making it so once you're in that lane you can't merge back, using barriers.  

[nputman]

53 minutes ago, wealthychef said:

Seems like this could be avoided by making it so once you're in that lane you can't merge back, using barriers.  

Need center barricade to stop people from using center turn lane as personal passing lane. 

Pretty darn unnerving when driving having someone, usually in a Vigo or Fortuner  jump into the oncoming traffic lane instead of passing in the slow lane that is clear of traffic. 

Nearly every time I drive to town there is at least one person doing just that. MC drivers seem to be a target for them. Some appear to get a real kick out of playing chicken also. generally the oversized black Hilux, Fortuner or Dmax drivers. Have had 5 Thai's I know killed this way.  

Edited November 8, 2018 by nputman

[Galactus]

bad for motorcyclists. such barriers act as a guillotine and cut you in pieces if you fall or crash on them on a bike.

[richard_smith237]

29 minutes ago, Galactus said:

bad for motorcyclists. such barriers act as a guillotine and cut you in pieces if you fall or crash on them on a bike.

 

Such barriers prevent 'wayward' vehicles from crossing into oncoming traffic....  

 

This includes motorcycles which have crashed... they're better of taking their chances with the Armco than and on-coming vehicle in the opposite lane. 

 

More Armco barriers separating traffic flowing in opposite directions is a good idea and will save lives. But, its not the only solution and many other accident mitigation measures need to be taken. 

 

There is no single fix but rather a whole paradigm shift is required which may take at least a generation..... then there is the matter of road design and quality itself, which again will take time and money, and then their is the apathetic quality of policing which needs a complete and total overhaul.... there is a long way to go. 

 

New roads are better designed, better quality, better signposted etc... but they are still driven by morons who create accidents out of impossible situations.... 

[kwilco]

6 hours ago, stanleycoin said:

Yes Armco is so impotent , 

when driving,  or riding the wrong way up the carriageway. 

 

Your not going to fix extreme, retarded behaviour with Armco.

 

But new orders for Mercedes-Benz and BMW cars, will be coming. 

 

this completely facile response just shows how little most people understand about road safety and peer just to rely on racist(?) stereotyping to satisfy their own prejudices

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, Galactus said:

bad for motorcyclists. such barriers act as a guillotine and cut you in pieces if you fall or crash on them on a bike.

Shear nonsense - forgive the pun

[stanleycoin]

3 minutes ago, kwilco said:

this completely facile response just shows how little most people understand about road safety and peer just to rely on racist(?) stereotyping to satisfy their own prejudices

I think your a bit simple when it comes to driving and riding in Thailand. 

I'm a racist now talking about armco !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Can you tell me to go home in your next post. 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2018 by stanleycoin

[Jimdandy]

7 hours ago, kwilco said:

Yet another profoundly uninformed comment based on a single issue erroneous premise.

In other words senor, the issue is not cosmetic changes; the real issue is education and enforcement. Maybe if you weren't so narrow minded you would have been able to read through the remarks and get to the essences of the issue, lack of governance with regard to traffic safety. 

[kwilco]

3 hours ago, Jimdandy said:

In other words senor, the issue is not cosmetic changes; the real issue is education and enforcement. Maybe if you weren't so narrow minded you would have been able to read through the remarks and get to the essences of the issue, lack of governance with regard to traffic safety. 

You are so uninformed it is hard to know where to start.

The areas of road safety are already defined and it is accepted that they need to be addressed holistically....yet you still think in terms of driving only and in single issues.

As you don't even appear to know what these tenets are I can't see how any "opinion" you post can be taken seriously.

It is so sad that people with absolutely no clue at all about road safety feel they can make a comment on the topic. Usually just because they think they can drive a car.

I suppose because you went to school that makes you an expert on education...and if you've been in hospital that makes you a medical expert?.

 

It isn't the most difficult science to understand the basics, so why don't people make an effort to get some information before spouting off on something they are clearly utterly uniformed about?

 

[Torrens54]

On 11/7/2018 at 9:54 AM, darksidedog said:

Barriers might help, but to my mind the biggest thing they need is people to be able to actually drive, and be able to understand and follow road rules. The cops enforcing said rules from time to time wouldn't hurt either.

YESSSS, get the Police off their butts and out on the roads, enforcing existing laws, as opposed to collecting “Tea Money” or genuflecting to offenders who may “know someone, who knows someone.”

 

As for Erection of Barriers, what do they think will happen when some fool, slams head-on into the Post and Barrier at the start of each section ?

Even Side-Swiping these barriers at speed, will cause catastrophic results.

 

ENFORCE the laws....ALL OF THEM ! and encourage Road Courtesy, something that was abundant in Thailand.... Thirty Years Ago (when I wrote heaps of praise about it, in numerous Travel Stories for Broadcast and Print.

Sadly over the years, “Courtesy” has become quite scarce in what was, the “Land Of Smiles.”

Edited November 8, 2018 by Torrens54
Fixing Typos.

[drgoon]

On 11/7/2018 at 3:54 PM, darksidedog said:

Barriers might help, but to my mind the biggest thing they need is people to be able to actually drive, and be able to understand and follow road rules. The cops enforcing said rules from time to time wouldn't hurt either.

Yeah right...  lol, it'll never happen.

 

You are right of course. 

 

How many millions of kilometers of roading aroun the world that don't have barriers and the accident rate is much lower than in Thailand.

 

Commonsense does not prevail in this country. Following basic safety rules....  hah

[balo]

Anything that will prevent accidents is a step forward , just do it. 

[spidermike007]

Perhaps. But Thai drivers need more skill, common sense, reason, caution, concern, respect for themselves and others, patience, and they need to stop practicing stupidity on the highways!

[kwilco]

8 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Perhaps. But Thai drivers need more skill, common sense, reason, caution, concern, respect for themselves and others, patience, and they need to stop practicing stupidity on the highways!

Blaming "driving" is not the solution and this has been shown worldwide - virtually ALL drivers are idiots as clearly shown on multiple threads of TV.

there are 6 tenet of road safety and driver education is only one of them......unless they adopt al 6 Thailand will see little or no improvement to the fatalities.

What they don't understand is how road safety precautions prevent them from being idiots.

Driver education is all very well in the beginning but it has been shown the older drivers in particular think they know better - in fact most older drivers did hardly any road trains yet still condsider themselves "excellent" drivers although most of their "experience" is wanton self preservation, prejudice and downright falsities.

 

The truth is that for decades the authorities have developed systems for keeping idiots APART - when they do something stupid and that is what saves lives - not by being a "superb" driver as they simply aren't enough of them.

 

This is why for instance countries in the EU have about the small accident are as Thailand but between one 10th and one 20th the death rates.

Furthermore if you drive a 4 wheel vehicle in Thailand such as sedan or pickup, your risk of dying is about the same as it is in the USA. Clearly the standard of driving is not that different, it is what happens before and after that saves lives.

[Jim walker]

No U turns on a dual carriageway seems so dangerous and people take wild gamble at all U turns 

[Saladin]

There is no need for the government to come up with all sorts of 'solutions' from 'experts.' It's really not very complicated. The glaringly obvious cause of the road carnage is simply that the police are totally inactive in enforcing the road rules. Drivers and riders in any country would be just as bad if they weren't afraid of being apprehended and paying a hefty fine or losing their licence for six months or more. The focus needs to be on replacing the senior government officials whose negligence in training and supervising the traffic cops is allowing this disgraceful situation to continue. Maybe 'Big Joke' could sort them out.

[kwilco]

10 minutes ago, Saladin said:

There is no need for the government to come up with all sorts of 'solutions' from 'experts.' It's really not very complicated. The glaringly obvious cause of the road carnage is simply that the police are totally inactive in enforcing the road rules. Drivers and riders in any country would be just as bad if they weren't afraid of being apprehended and paying a hefty fine or losing their licence for six months or more. The focus needs to be on replacing the senior government officials whose negligence in training and supervising the traffic cops is allowing this disgraceful situation to continue. Maybe 'Big Joke' could sort them out.

You have completely misread the issue.

Just take a bit of time and look at countries with a genuine low fatality rate or a good rod safety record and you'll see that it requires a wide range of measures that include government action as private companies simply aren't equipped or interested in dealing with this sort of thing.

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, Jim walker said:

No U turns on a dual carriageway seems so dangerous and people take wild gamble at all U turns 

This comes under the heading of road design and traffic engineering. It is, on it's own, not going to change things much at all, but it is an example of the lamentable state of road design in Thailand - that anyone should consider these U-turns OK on roads with far too high a traffic volume and speed simply beggars belief.

[kwilco]

18 hours ago, Torrens54 said:

YESSSS, get the Police off their butts and out on the roads, enforcing existing laws, as opposed to collecting “Tea Money” or genuflecting to offenders who may “know someone, who knows someone.”

 

As for Erection of Barriers, what do they think will happen when some fool, slams head-on into the Post and Barrier at the start of each section ?

Even Side-Swiping these barriers at speed, will cause catastrophic results.

 

ENFORCE the laws....ALL OF THEM ! and encourage Road Courtesy, something that was abundant in Thailand.... Thirty Years Ago (when I wrote heaps of praise about it, in numerous Travel Stories for Broadcast and Print.

Sadly over the years, “Courtesy” has become quite scarce in what was, the “Land Of Smiles.”

You don't understand how these barriers work.

[kwilco]

Anyone who thinks that simply getting the police to enforce the traffic laws is just kidding themselves or they have no idea of how the laws in Thailand are applied.

 

firstly one has to train the police - they are a paramilitary organization with virtually no training in road safety and traffic management whatsoever.

 

then you have to equip them with the right stuff (several hundred thousand traffic cones, for a start?)

 

then you he to define the traffic laws so they are incontrovertible.

 

none these can be enforced however until the road system itself it delineated and calibrated accordingly - even simple things like clearing away billboards and vegetation so that road signs ca be seen. Of course you need a standard system of installing road signs before you do that - and the a standardized system of road signs.

 

You need to Review all the speed limits and introduce urban ones (they are sort of starting that now) and decide what is and what isn't public highway.......... very few roads ae marked properly or even have definitive curbs.

 

Thee are just a few items out of a myriad of undefined was and regulations that need to be set up - but to do this you need to modify or even rebuild half the road system

 

 At present no Thai government for 40 years has showman inkling of interest in how rod safety is applied internationally and so the cost of rectifying the situation just increases even year nothing is done - of course plenty of nabs issue dictums that try to convince the public they are doing something, but it is usually so ineffective as to be a joke.

 

the central barriers could go a long way to reducing fatalities for reasons that should be obvious to even the most blinkered road user, but they need to be installed on eery road that will have room for them and other roads need redesigning to take them....... it remains to be seen if this is the beginning of a sea-change in Thai road safety. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Torrens54]

On 11/9/2018 at 3:52 PM, kwilco said:

You don't understand how these barriers work.

Ah but I do....

and again, given the “abilities” of many Drivers/Riders in Thailand, there would be many who would slam, smack into the “Post and Bend” sections, whilst others would either Sideswipe or Plough into them in many and varied ways.

[kwilco]

6 hours ago, Torrens54 said:

Ah but I do....

and again, given the “abilities” of many Drivers/Riders in Thailand, there would be many who would slam, smack into the “Post and Bend” sections, whilst others would either Sideswipe or Plough into them in many and varied ways.

There you are...you have absolutely no idea how barriers work or what their purpose is.

[stanleycoin]

3 hours ago, kwilco said:

There you are...you have absolutely no idea how barriers work or what their purpose is.

Give it a rest,  you're boring people with your 

pompous comments,  to posters on this thread.

 

Your comparisons to the west and how it is,  and how it should be,

are a laugh,  this is Thailand, not Falangland.

A very basic concept you have over looked,  but that's not a great surprise.

 

Wash rinse,  wash rinse,  repeat cycle on Falang setting no 101  

 

Good day.

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2018 by stanleycoin

[stud858]

Baby steps first. Paint road lines and keep painting them.