Expats need to organize in face of Embassies discontinuance of income verification letters

[Lovethailandelite]

19 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

I really doubt about that. Source ?

If ever TI is not satisfied with the letter of one embassy, they will say this embassy to stop issuing it. Easier and less trouble.

No Embassy was told to stop issuing anything. They were told they needed to verify income which is impossible. Legally, the letters could not do that and no embassy will put there name to an illegal document by saying likewise. To carry on issuing the letters in it's current format would mean the letters would simply be rejected as not fit for purpose, so the decision was taken to withdraw them.

[Tanoshi]

17 minutes ago, pookiki said:

What is clear, however, is that the Netherlands has not indicated any problems with Thai Immigration officials with respect its (the income verification affidavit/letter) continued viability.  And there are many other embassies that have not taken any action to revoke the issuance of income verification affidavits.  I can only speculate as to the reasons the vast majority of embassies in Thailand are not having a problem with this issue.  But what it does indicate to me is that there is a solution for this problem.

I believe some of the smaller minority Embassies, frustrated with Thai Immigration, have taken the line of continuing with their income affidavits/letters and wait for Immigration to refuse them.

That will not help their citizens.

 

At least the UK, USA and Australia has forewarned it's citizens.

[Time Traveller]

5 minutes ago, Kurtf said:

It seems to me the only people negatively affected by this new policy are those that NEED an unverified income statement to continue living here in the Kingdom. I always thought it was disgusting that we were being gouged out of $50 for them to stamp a piece of paper where we could swear our income was whatever we wanted to say without any proof whatsoever.

I’m happy those liars over the past years will have their butts kicked out. The rest can easily produce a bank book showing the amounts of monthly deposits.

Correct. It is a good thing they are stopping these silly letters. People will save $50.

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, Pattaya46 said:

You write your posts as if you knew more than us... So could you please enlighten us ?

Until now TI wanted a letter verifying your income. What is the "new way" they want it ?

The 'new' way if that's how you wish to put it, is the exact way posted in the guidance notes on the respective embassy websites. People keep questioning desk clerks at immigration offices and getting all kinds of conflicting information, isn't helping.

[Ctkong]

Just now, Pattaya46 said:

You write your posts as if you knew more than us... So could you please enlighten us ?

Until now TI wanted a letter verifying your income. What is the "new way" they want it ?

Embassy issue the letter based upon your provided evidence and verbal affirmation. They can not verify if it is true or not. Evidence can be forged overseas .... and until the money is IN THE THAI BANK, no amount of swearing is going to convince the immigration that you are kosher. So thai immigration play it safe by requesting either the money banked in monthly into Thai bank meaning real money is being banked in OR having the required annual amount in the bank ( again real money is in the bank) . 

[Billy Bloggs]

23 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

All you have to organise is getting the correct amount of money in your bank account, or coming into it. The only people this change affects are the liars and fraudsters, as it was meant to

Rubbish, I get an ex services pension, which I bring into thailand as required, I use part money in the bank and my pension to cover the 800k so dont generalise when you know little if anything of others circumstances who probably dont appreciate the name calling when it is way off the truth of the matter.

[Spidey]

11 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Once again. NO Embassy can categorically 100% verify income in the way Thailand is asking. And once again, if an Embassy continues to issue the letter, it is there choice to do so. The exact same choice as Immigration has to accept or deny the letter during application process after the 1st January.

And all indications are that they will continue to accept the letters long after January. Unless you have some evidence to the contrary? No, I thought not.

 

 

[Lovethailandelite]

7 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

I'm still a bit confused. If you have the foreign income coming into your Thai bank account averaging 65,000 per month why any need for a letter? The bank book is all you should need.

Be aware Bob. It's not 'Average income' it's a 'Minimum' of 65k per month in to a Thai bank account

[Tanoshi]

8 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

I'm still a bit confused. If you have the foreign income coming into your Thai bank account averaging 65,000 per month why any need for a letter? The bank book is all you should need.

Agreed, income deposited in a Thai bank can be verified by Immigration.

 

The issue at hand is Immigration would need to issue a new directive in order for IO's to accept Thai bank books/letters

as proof of income, in the same manner they do for 400 or 800K deposited in a Thai bank.

[Time Traveller]

1 hour ago, Will27 said:

I did agree with you in my first reply.

 

It is advantageous economically wise for a country to have expats who aren't using the health system

and social security etc.

 

But, expats just don't have any currency. Most don't vote and the public in general wouldn't care either.

 

I cannot see embassies, well the Aussie one anyway starting, to verify people's incomes.

It would be a massive job if done correctly.

So you are saying Australia don't really want their citizens to live in their own country? 

I don't think most other countries are like that. 

 

 

 

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, Ctkong said:

So thai immigration play it safe by requesting either the money banked in monthly into Thai bank meaning real money is being banked in

Currently, they don't accept this and, as yet, have given no indication that they will do so in the future.

[Tanoshi]

1 minute ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Be aware Bob. It's not 'Average income' it's a 'Minimum' of 65k per month in to a Thai bank account

You don't know that for fact.

 

As with the combination method, the funds deposited and income must total 800K per annum.

There is no defined monthly income, it's based on an annual total.

[Ctkong]

I wanted to tell a story about my missus getting a bank card from the bank. She is on a 20 years Thailand Elite visa . She is 33 now. 

Asked by the bank when she opened a bank account using a letter from TE , what type of card she wanted, she replied that she wanted a platinum card. Bank officer wasn’t fazed at all and explained that she need to fit deposit a certain amount in the bank( tb100,000 for a platinum) to qualify for that. Not the usual requirement of 600,000 tb annual income for a thai. So thailand do cut you some slack so long as you are qualified in their eyes. Oh yes, she asked her what amount I sent her monthly or yearly since she cannot work in Thailand. I replied .around 2million baht a year and the officer was fine with that. 

 

 

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, Spidey said:

And all indications are that they will continue to accept the letters long after January. Unless you have some evidence to the contrary? No, I thought not.

 

 

The letters will continue to be issued on the 'Assumption' that the current arrangement of them being valid for 6 months will be accepted. That MAY not be the case once the letters are totally withdrawn. They simply could be rejected.

[Spidey]

Just now, Lovethailandelite said:

Be aware Bob. It's not 'Average income' it's a 'Minimum' of 65k per month in to a Thai bank account

Not as yet it isn't. Embassy letters only.

[BobBKK]

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

Agreed, income deposited in a Thai bank can be verified by Immigration.

 

The issue at hand is Immigration would need to issue a new directive in order for IO's to accept Thai bank books/letters

as proof of income, in the same manner they do for 400 or 800K deposited in a Thai bank.

Right but isn't it madness? They could finish all this 'letter' 'no letter' nonsense by accepting Thai Bank Books. Why wouldn't they?  THAI BANK BOOKS?  I have way over the 65,000 coming in but it's not acceptable?  there in BLACK AND WHITE?  so I currently have 800,000 which I'd love to release.

 

With respect to all the outraged 'why won't my embassy give me a letter' brigade why don't we all concentrate on the 'why wont they accept bank books' (unless, of course, you don't really have that income coming in and you relied on your embassy to accept your 'word').

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, Tanoshi said:

You don't know that for fact.

 

As with the combination method, the funds deposited and income must total 800K per annum.

There is no defined monthly income, it's based on an annual total.

It's fact. There has been no mention or agreement on any combination method. Whether you choose to accept it or not, is your choice. Whatever you choose to accept will not change anything.

[Curt1591]

35 minutes ago, Spidey said:

That's my biggest worry, too many people with false hopes (given by certain posters on TVF) who are going to get caught out when the time comes for their extension renewals plus many more who don't log in to TVF. Just watched an American vlogger, this morning, doing just that. 2k views in the last 24 hours. His previous vlog, in the same vein, has had 20k views in a week. Criminal.

 

 

 

He is reading a 4 year old document!

[Spidey]

Just now, Lovethailandelite said:

The letters will continue to be issued on the 'Assumption' that the current arrangement of them being valid for 6 months will be accepted. That MAY not be the case once the letters are totally withdrawn. They simply could be rejected.

They could be rejected but TI have given no indication that they will do so, in fact a number of IOs have confirmed that the letters will continue to be valid for 6 months after their issue.

 

It's likely that they will continue to accept the letters as long as they are produced. Which is why the majority of embassies will continue to produce the letters and are expecting for the whole thing to blow over after the election.

[howiem]

On 11/8/2018 at 7:51 AM, ubonjoe said:

I am not sure that the US Embassy can do much more than they have already done or what they are still trying to do in the background now. You can be sure they have not washed their hands of the problem.

The Thai MInistry of Foreign Affairs has nothing to do with extension of stay (they are not visas) applications. Immigration sets the requirements for extensions of stay applications.

You seem to of forgotten or are not aware that it is not only those on extension of stay based upon retirement that are affected by the change. The are many that apply for extension based upon marriage to a Thai or for being the parent of a Thai who have been using a income affidavit to apply for their extensions.

I think the answer to many of the questions is in this November 9, 2018 post at the Thai Immigration web site.  https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22 ,

 

It does not require any embassy letter.

 

 

[Ctkong]

4 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

So you are saying Australia don't really want their citizens to live in their own country? 

I don't think most other countries are like that. 

 

 

 

Basically, once you are retired and no longer ‘productive’ to the economy , you are a cost financially to the country. Your spending to stimulate the local economy is also of not much help as all big ticket items such as house were already bought years ago....

i was told in certain countries ( Korea for example) in centuries ago, old people passed their productive years, would just leave their families and ventured into the wild to just die off so as not to put a strain on the family . Social security was unheard of then. 

[Lovethailandelite]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

Not as yet it isn't. Embassy letters only.

I was talking about the way forward after January 2019. It appears you people cannot accept whatever I post in an attempt to explain. It's pointless and the reason the likes of the BE refuse to speak to you direct and simply point you in the direction of the published guidance notices.
In that case, I will leave you too it.
Enjoy your day.

[Curt1591]

As of today, on the Thai Immigration website: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

What "evidence" they will accept is going to be a crapshoot!

 

[Spidey]

Just now, howiem said:

I think the answer to many of the questions is in this November 9, 2018 post at the Thai Immigration web site.  https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22 ,

 

It does not require any embassy letter.

 

 

Nothing has changed here. It has always said the same.

 

"(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month"

 

The evidence required is an embassy letter, always has been, still is.

[BobBKK]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

Nothing has changed here. It has always said the same.

 

"(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month"

 

The evidence required is an embassy letter, always has been, still is.

where does it say "the evidence required is an embassy letter"?

[howiem]

10 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

'why wont they accept bank books'

Not only will they accept bankbooks (and a certificate from the bank) but bankbooks are required.  See https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

It appears you people cannot accept whatever I post in an attempt to explain.

That's because you post no evidence for your assumption, yet there is good evidence against your assumption, which is just pointless scaremongering.

[BobBKK]

1 minute ago, howiem said:

Not only will they accept bankbooks (and a certificate from the bank) but bankbooks are required.  See https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

So why a letter?  if the THAI bank book shows the income what's the problem?

 

They don't trust THAI banks?  really?

[Thaidream]

29 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Once again. NO Embassy can categorically 100% verify income in the way Thailand is asking. And once again, if an Embassy continues to issue the letter, it is there choice to do so. The exact same choice as Immigration has to accept or deny the letter during application process after the 1st January.

As long as I have a letter from  the US Embassy or British Embassy dated in 2018-I would expect that Thai Immigration honor it as  it is valid for 6 months.  For the Australians- anything dated 7 Jan 2019 and prior should also be honored for 6 months.  This is apparently what has been negotiated. Just a few days ago- the US Embassy confirmed the same,  If they don't- there are going to be a lot of people requesting refunds from the Embassy and contacting their  representatives in their home countries.  

[Spidey]

Just now, BobBKK said:

where does it say "the evidence required is an embassy letter"?

It doesn't say and never has said, yet the IOs have always insisted upon it and still do.