Thailand falls further behind in English language skills

[lahgon29]

13 hours ago, Thian said:

no serious, i guess there's something missing in the thai brain which causes them to not be able to learn real english...but the ones i know who have studied in the usa sometimes can speak it fluent, better than me.

 

The Chinese also have that issue, the R and the L are mixed up often, no matter how hard they try or how many years they speak english. My wife can't say the word 'broccoli'   no matter how hard she tries or practises.

 

I wonder how that happened though, that R and L thing..thai also say kob kun klab in BKK, i rarely hear the proper kob kun krab...

 

Guess you also have seen the banners on the streets for english language schools but they even can't spell it properly. So funny.

 

 

 

 

 

 

My wife has no problem saying "bloccori" ????

[Thian]

2 minutes ago, Longcut said:

Hester Chew, Chairman of Executive Committee and CEO of McThai, Thailand's sole McDonald's franchisee.

 Hardly an American owned business.

Oh so now you''re going to tell me macD thai has nothing to do with the real one right? What a load of......

 

But the same goes for Burgerking and Pizzacompany...which are from an american...over to you sir...

[Brunolem]

In practice, this is how it starts and how it ends in the English classroom...

 

 

 

[Thian]

5 minutes ago, lahgon29 said:

My wife has no problem saying "bloccori" ????

And can she say cartire or tile? Or dish or ditch? My wife asked her collegues from london what ditch they wanted to eat for lunch....????

 

You like flied lice?

[Longcut]

7 minutes ago, Thian said:

Oh so now you''re going to tell me macD thai has nothing to do with the real one right? What a load of......

 

But the same goes for Burgerking and Pizzacompany...which are from an american...over to you sir...

Forget burgers, McDonald’s is a Real Estate Company.

If you ask nine out of ten people how McDonald’s makes a profit they might mention something about Burgers and fries or Mcflurries. They would not, however, start talking about McDonald’s Franchise Realty Corporation or their multibillion-dollar property empire.

Of course, McDonald’s sells a lot of Mcflurries, not to mention burgers and fries. However, many are unaware of the far-reaching extent of the McDonald’s property empire.

McDonald's cannot own the property outright in Thailand. So they use McThai. Go to KhonKean. The menus are all in Thai. Why is that? Maybe because it is a Thai company. McDonald's makes money selling the products as well as the franchise. 

[HalfLight]

2 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

My lovely boss (who is Thai with limited English skills) said the following almost word for word:

 

Thai no need talk.

 

Thai have certificate is ok.

 

In Thai certificate important na more of experience. 

 

Not same farang.

 

Which sums up a part of the Thai conundrum quite nicely. Almost as if having a piece of paper saying uou've attended xyz hours of meaningless drivel somehow confers skill - like magic perhaps. And it doesn't matter if the ceretificate is even genuine. Forgey OK, Fake OK, Copy OK etc etc etc.

 

Like most (in my experience) Thai driver licenses.

 

Hopeless.

 

And it doesn't seem to be getting any better. If anything, it seems to be getting worse quite quickly.

[BEngBKK]

Why learn English. If the world  want to do business with Thailand it has to Learn Thai.... Right ?

[Thian]

20 minutes ago, Longcut said:

Forget burgers, McDonald’s is a Real Estate Company.

If you ask nine out of ten people how McDonald’s makes a profit they might mention something about Burgers and fries or Mcflurries. They would not, however, start talking about McDonald’s Franchise Realty Corporation or their multibillion-dollar property empire.

Of course, McDonald’s sells a lot of Mcflurries, not to mention burgers and fries. However, many are unaware of the far-reaching extent of the McDonald’s property empire.

McDonald's cannot own the property outright in Thailand. So they use McThai. Go to KhonKean. The menus are all in Thai. Why is that? Maybe because it is a Thai company. McDonald's makes money selling the products as well as the franchise. 

Good for them, but i won't go to khon kaen since i have no idea what to do there.

 

I bet they sell hambaaaagaaa's there...and also pizza's supaaaaadaaalak at pizzacompany. which is all fine but in BKK they should learn how to say it properly since this isn't a countryvillage here.

[Emster23]

50 minutes ago, Thian said:

They give Macdonalds a bad reputation by not being able to speak english and  scamming customers by not giving discounts like they are supposed to (10% discount on the Rabbit card)... 

 

If they want to sell burgers that way they should open their own burgerrestaurant and not ruin the reputation of western companies.

Language problem has been addressed by McD's. It is why they have laminate menu. Simply point at what you want, hold finger up for quantity. I lived in Japan in the 80's, and they couldn't speak English either. After memorized lines of welcome in Japanese, the counter person would put the laminate menu in front of you.

As far as ruining reputation of western companies... eh? I haven't heard any complaints about reputation, just product.

My Thai is passable, not great, and can't read it. I don't get angry if they don't speak Thai. Get off your mental ass and learn some basic Thai if you live here. Duh.

[Thian]

2 minutes ago, Emster23 said:

Language problem has been addressed by McD's. It is why they have laminate menu. Simply point at what you want, hold finger up for quantity. I lived in Japan in the 80's, and they couldn't speak English either. After memorized lines of welcome in Japanese, the counter person would put the laminate menu in front of you.

As far as ruining reputation of western companies... eh? I haven't heard any complaints about reputation, just product.

My Thai is passable, not great, and can't read it. I don't get angry if they don't speak Thai. Get off your mental ass and learn some basic Thai if you live here. Duh.

I never buy a set, only burgers and those are not on the laminated menu's....

 

Last week at BK i ordered a whopper plus a mini-whopper take away,   said it clear and slowly, twice.

 

I paid and got 2 sets...which i refused...so frustrating...if i want a set i'll order that. 

[JAG]

15 hours ago, Thian said:

For her job she works with consultants from London and so and when i tell her those guys must be laughing so hard when she makes silly mistakes she even doesn't care.

Possibly, just possibly, those consultants from London are thinking "That Thai lady tries hard to speak English, makes some mistakes but is comprehensible, and puts real effort into speaking a foreign language, which has virtually nothing in common with her native language. She is doing jolly well isn't she?"

[JAG]

14 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Ah yes..the foreign teachers..they're to blame.

 

Terrible lot..bad English-just as all motor vehicle fatalities in thailand are caused by 'farang' and all bananas are bent by Queenslanders..

How do Queenslanders bend bananas?

 

On second thoughts no, please don't answer, I'm having a banana milkshake for lunch. Wander into garden, select banana from tree, slice it up (the banana not the tree), pop into blender with a splash of coconut milk, a dash of vanilla essence, a scoop of vanilla ice cream and a glass of milk, whizz it up for 10 seconds.

 

Yummy, and not a Queenslander in sight....

 

 

[JAG]

 

14 hours ago, RotBenz8888 said:

As good as it gets...

I wonder if you could discuss a domestic political topic from wherever you hail, on Thai TV with a Thai interviewer, in Thai, and be understood by your audience?

 

Leaving out the schoolboy sniggering caused by an attractive woman mispronouncing "election" as "erection"...

[JAG]

13 hours ago, HalfLight said:

I spotted someone's member description a while back and immediately adopted his self-description for my sig line. Yes, I'm selectively misanthropic. Over the years I've come to a pretty good understanding of Thais and I have to say I don't like what I've come to understand very much.

"Selectively misanthropic"? 

 

Your misanthropy sounds pretty universal I'm afraid!

 

[JAG]

5 hours ago, PatOngo said:

When the majority of the population are destined to a life of mediocrity in the provinces, I guess English is irrelevant to most!

Speaking as someone who rather enjoys a life of mediocrity in the provinces, I am often pleasantly surprised by the attempts by ordinary people in mediocre provincial occupations to speak English to me. Market traders, petrol pump attendants and the like... 

 

Perhaps it is because, unlike their sophisticated metropolitan kinfolk, they are rather proud to show off their English. Sometimes if they make a particularly grave mistake I will correct them, gently, and both parties go on their way smiling. It does add a bit of fun to buying a bag of stuff in the market.

[Thian]

36 minutes ago, JAG said:

Possibly, just possibly, those consultants from London are thinking "That Thai lady tries hard to speak English, makes some mistakes but is comprehensible, and puts real effort into speaking a foreign language, which has virtually nothing in common with her native language. She is doing jolly well isn't she?"

Yes but i bet they had a good laugh when they got back in the hotel.

 

But also my wife and her collegues had a good laugh, they ordered the Brits to fix something important for Thailand but when they were gone it didn't work so they had to come back....Looking back they better had hired the Indians who were half the price and also could do the same job...

[JAG]

3 hours ago, malagateddy said:

The English language is hard to learn..just think of all the different verb tenses.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I don't agree - there are many tenses yes, but frankly, once you have mastered the simple tenses - past, present and future - and you are beyond "I go Big C" and into the realms of speaking simple correct English. Then add the continuous form (verb to be plus the main verb adding "ing") and you are away - "I went/am going/will go to Big C".

3 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

One of the advantages of English however, is that as long as you know vocabulary you can basically string it all together in almost any order.

May sound odd, but unlike a lot of languages where if you get the sentence structure wrong it's unintelligible, English can still be understood.

 

A German friend of mine put it rather well many years ago;

 

"English is an easy language to speak badly"

The main aim must be to get them (child or adult) confident enough to try. Mistakes don't matter - the sun will still come up tomorrow if you get the verb ending wrong, and a good teacher will patiently put you right. Then of course - the dreaded "face" comes into play...

[Brunolem]

26 minutes ago, JAG said:

Speaking as someone who rather enjoys a life of mediocrity in the provinces, 

I like this introduction...even if simplicity would be a more pleasant word than mediocrity..

[JimP]

Let them learn Chinese.  English eludes them like an Issan dad eludes their brood.

[JAG]

2 hours ago, Longcut said:

The level of ignorance by some is just so overwhelming.

McDonald's in Thailand is not here for the English speaking population. Neither is KFC, Burger King, Dunkin Donuts, etc. They are a Thai franchise for the Thai population. They will not fold if you don't go there regardless of what you think. 

Oh, I don't know - if he regularly spends B1500 on sticky buns in the bakery, as he tells us at the beginning of the thread, he might be described as a man of economic influence.

 

A big lad too I should imagine!

[JAG]

2 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Being a native English or being below 40 are NOT qualifications!

I would suggest that they are qualifications, perhaps just not the sole qualifications.

 

Being a native speaker does presume a depth of familiarity with the language which should (no certainties here you will note) be of help when teaching it. Age not so important, arguably more important to enjoy working with and like children, (one has to be careful what you say here, many look at you as if you were a disciple of Gary Glitter, but I hope that you understand what I mean). I don't suggest that being a "non native speaker" prevents you from teaching the language effectively, but it does mean that such teachers need a very good command of the language, amongst their qualifications.

 

I entirely agree that the backpacker looking to fund sticking around for a few months, is not the answer, at all.

 

[Bangkok Barry]

16 hours ago, RotBenz8888 said:

Thais have zero knowledge of the outside world, and zero interest in the outside world, which explains their lack of English skills.

 

Why? Because it doesn't affect their lives directly. They do not have an enquiring mind as that is knocked out of them in their first days at school where they must listen and never question anything at any time. They then go on to live in their own little bubble and care nothing of the outside world. There is an argument that they are right not to waste their time being concerned at things that don't affect them and which they have no control over. Not the farang way, but each culture is different.

Does that help a country advance? No. Does it enable them to innovate and produce something, anything at all, that is useful to the world? No. Do they care that foreigners invented every single thing they use in their life because no Thai was smart enough to invent anything? No. They don't care, because they are taught from birth that they are superior to every other race, and that is all they want to know.

[Krataiboy]

16 hours ago, Thian said:

Yes and i also don't care cause i have the money...if i don't like a place/shop/person i go elsewhere.

 

In a bakery today i put for 1500 baht of breads on the counter and wanted to pay...the employee asked something in thai (i do speak a littun thai) but i didn't understand what she asked. She had 5 collegues who also couldn't help.

 

I pointed at the breads and showed my wallet but she asked it again...(whatever it was). i showed her some thousands to make sure she understood it...then she started packing.

I guess she asked in thai if i wanted to buy all of that...yes of course, why else would i bring all that to the counter???

 

It's so frustrating if they can't speak english and i can't speak enough thai.

 

 

Have you tried shouting, rather than speaking, at them in English? It worked, apparently, for generations of colonialsists.

[Longcut]

2 hours ago, Thian said:

I never buy a set, only burgers and those are not on the laminated menu's....

 

Last week at BK i ordered a whopper plus a mini-whopper take away,   said it clear and slowly, twice.

 

I paid and got 2 sets...which i refused...so frustrating...if i want a set i'll order that. 

You strike me as someone who would complain if you couldn't get a bacon cheeseburger at McDonalds in a Muslim country. 

[Brunolem]

34 minutes ago, JAG said:

I would suggest that they are qualifications, perhaps just not the sole qualifications.

 

Being a native speaker does presume a depth of familiarity with the language which should (no certainties here you will note) be of help when teaching it. Age not so important, arguably more important to enjoy working with and like children, (one has to be careful what you say here, many look at you as if you were a disciple of Gary Glitter, but I hope that you understand what I mean). I don't suggest that being a "non native speaker" prevents you from teaching the language effectively, but it does mean that such teachers need a very good command of the language, amongst their qualifications.

 

I entirely agree that the backpacker looking to fund sticking around for a few months, is not the answer, at all.

 

If the authorities were serious, the first thing they would ask for would be a proven record showing a minimum of 5 years teaching English at high school level.

 

If you are good enough to teach English in Finland, or Brazil, or Singapore, then you are good enough to do it in Thailand.

 

Yet, serious authorities would also ask the prospective teachers to learn the Thai language, so that they could have a better understanding of the major differences between both languages, and by extension of the obstacles to be met by the students.

 

The average backpacker/teacher will probably assume that his Thai students know what plural, gender, not to mention verb conjugation, are.

 

He or she will thus skip a major obstacle while all his or her students will hit this same obstacle head on, unable to move on.

 

 

[Benmart]

17 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

 

 

Farang Fall Further Behind in Thai Language Skills.

To be expected.

The story is about Thai fluency in English, not farang comprehension of the story and twisting it to suit a personal agenda.

[Kasset Tak]

I don't claim to be the best English teacher (I don't teach English as a language, I teach animal husbandry in English) but the Thai teachers who are teaching English in the school where I work, they speaks Thai with me because they can't speak English, or another example is when they ask me to proof read translations they have clearly used google translate... then what outcome can you expect to get from the students education when the teachers cant even use the language?!

[JAG]

52 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

If the authorities were serious, the first thing they would ask for would be a proven record showing a minimum of 5 years teaching English at high school level.

 

If you are good enough to teach English in Finland, or Brazil, or Singapore, then you are good enough to do it in Thailand.

 

Yet, serious authorities would also ask the prospective teachers to learn the Thai language, so that they could have a better understanding of the major differences between both languages, and by extension of the obstacles to be met by the students.

 

The average backpacker/teacher will probably assume that his Thai students know what plural, gender, not to mention verb conjugation, are.

 

He or she will thus skip a major obstacle while all his or her students will hit this same obstacle head on, unable to move on.

 

 

A qualified teacher (degree + Post Graduate Certificate), and 5 years teaching experience in a European High School, would command an annual salary in their home country, equivalent to some 1,5 million Baht +. They are not going to come here, learn Thai, and work for 500k Baht a year, which is the maximum that Thailand would/could pay (except for a few very prestigious and expensive schools in Bangkok - perhaps).

 

I'm afraid that, if you are going to get native speaking teachers in most (all) schools here then you are stuck with TEFL teachers. The published requirements, a degree, TEFL certificate and criminal record check are actually sufficient, if the TEFL teacher is conscientious, enthusiastic and working, as I do, in concert with Thai teachers. The Thai teachers deal with the grammatical rules (largely pointless) and the vocabulary teaching ( jolly useful to prepare for Scrabble competitions), but required by the national curriculum. I try to get them speaking the language. We have, dare I say, reasonable success. Where this system breaks down is when the TEFL component is recruited with, or despite, having essentially nominal qualifications - the infamous certificates gained online - or are non native speakers with limited language skills. Experience is also important, a TEFL teacher, like any other teacher, gets better with experience. Short term "gap year" employees never get that experience.

One final point - ability to handle the classroom. Classrooms are challenging environments, you need skill sets (see previous comments on experience), patience and a liking for and understanding of children to function effectively. A mixed ability class of 34 eleven year olds is a challenging, sometimes scary environment, (and bloody tiring) but a hugely rewarding and enjoyable place when you get it right and start to produce results. A lot of people (especially the short term "backpackers) never stand a chance. 

 

Enough of my meanderings about teaching in Thailand. The requirements you describe would be great (although I would be out of a job!) but are simply not economically or practically possible. The existing requirements/system can be made to work tolerably well, if the prescribed conditions and standards are followed. That is in the hands of the Thai educational authorities - God and The Buddha help us...

[HalfLight]

3 hours ago, JAG said:

"Selectively misanthropic"? 

 

Your misanthropy sounds pretty universal I'm afraid!

 

 

You might be right but I'd be interested to know what gave that game away... something I said?

 

Don't be afraid, it is what it is, but then, If I've learned from experience that putting my head down the toilet isn't a good experience, then who's to blame me if I stay away from toilets?

[HalfLight]

23 minutes ago, JAG said:

God and The Buddha help us...

 

Ah yes. One is said to exist though there is no evidence at all for him doing so. The other relies on a quaint belief that somehow the end of life is not actually the end of life because some guy said sop while strolling besie a river 2500 years ago.

 

Ain't faith wunnerful? Essential for anyone who wants to get a slightly dim population who'll believe just about any old nonsense, to do what you say and give you all their money.

 

Excellent. Time for lunch. Pardon my scepticism/realism. And yes, I do realis that isn't exactly the point you were making but an aside.