Legally, Thailand is free of sexual harassment [Editorial]

[webfact]

Legally, Thailand is free of sexual harassment

By The Nation

 

 

Last week’s protests by Google’s global workforce don’t resonate here, but they should
 

To say sexual harassment doesn’t exist in Thailand doesn’t mean that improper behaviour doesn’t occur. The term is a legal one, though, and in this country the public rarely hears about what happens. Reactions to the occasional incidents that do emerge are flash in the pan at most, and no case has ever gone to court.

 

But the fact that formal complaints are scant doesn’t mean incidents don’t happen. For women who feel awkward about their bosses touching them or making inappropriate comments, the only choice is between putting up with it and quitting their job. To do what Google employees did last week – staging a massive protest against sexual harassment – would be out of question here.

 

Thousands of Google workers around the world walked out of their offices to protest the company’s handling of sexual harassment allegations.

 

This followed press reports about Google shielding or paying off senior executives who’d been accused of serious misconduct. Those participating in the walkout demanded labour representation on the executive board, a safer and more effective system for reporting harassment, public disclosure of harassment statistics, and an end to forced-arbitration clauses that critics say make it impossible to sue the company over harassment.

 

It was interesting to see this occurring at Google, a supposedly progressive and liberal firm with regard to social issues. The protesters’ complaints of “a work culture that’s not working” and a lack of transparency erased the perception that sexual harassment was not a prevalent problem at sizeable tech companies. Clearly the problem exists everywhere. And it will surely worsen without sweeping changes being made.

 

Central to the Google uproar was Andy Rubin, creator of the Android software, who was the subject of sexual misconduct allegations and was sent packing – with a multimillion-dollar severance settlement.

 

The resentment directed against him was the spark that set the staff on fire. But his case was certainly not an isolated incident at Google, as evidenced by the sheer scale of the workforce protest.

 

No one of similar stature in Thailand would ever be brought down in this way. Here, it is widely known that many private firms place women in awful situations, and it’s often even worse in government offices.

 

Pervasive male chauvinism is believed to be the main cause, but those blaming cultural shortcomings are reminded that, while incidents in the past were “out in the open”, today’s victims suffer in silence. Their abusers take advantage of society’s tolerance and a general unwillingness to turn such incidents into criminal cases.

 

Far more Thai women are aware of their rights nowadays and have the strength to resist – but still not enough of them. This gap in understanding should first be addressed by a comprehensive awareness campaign.

 

Too many people, both men and women, define a sexual predator as someone who inflicts physical harm – they dismiss the psychological damage that results. Too many people believe a woman hired at a top-tier company needs to meekly accept the boss’ dinner invitation even if it feels like a sexual advance.

 

In purely legal terms, there is indeed no sexual harassment in Thailand. Morally, however, the problem appears to be so prevalent that few Thais recognise it as a problem. In this day and age, though, no one should be suffering in silence.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/opinion/30358342

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-11-12

[Samui Bodoh]

"...No one of similar stature in Thailand would ever be brought down in this way. Here, it is widely known that many private firms place women in awful situations, and it’s often even worse in government offices..."

 

That is quite an indictment of Thai society.

 

What, beyond mere occasional words, are you going to do about it, Nation? We see these fine, principled Editorials, yet somehow everything ends after they have been printed. Why not have the courage of your convictions and print a name or two? Why not lead by example rather than complain about others? Why not truly implement a policy against sexual harassment in YOUR company's workplace and ACTUALLY follow it?

 

As the old saying goes, 

 

Put Up or Shut Up

 

 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Samui Bodoh

[Lupatria]

According to statistics of 2014, an average of 87 cases of sexual violence against women and children per day are reported in Thailand – i.e. one case every 15 minutes. Officially, the number for 2013 was 31.866. The number of unreported cases from the category Tyrannosaurus Sex is correspondingly higher! And to cope with the country's hub of hubs status, domestic violence increased by 30.8 percent between 2009 and 2012.
Sorry, I couldn’t find newer stats. 

In a former post I mentioned Big Joke may declare Thailand a rape-free zone, looks like he found somebody else to do the job.
 

[Cadbury]

 

4 hours ago, webfact said:

In purely legal terms, there is indeed no sexual harassment

In my days it used to be called flirting and was acceptable behavior for both men and women.

In these enlightened times for men it is now referred to as sexual harassment. Flirting and being seductive is still OK for women.

[Lupatria]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Thailand is free of sexual harassment...

...after we put our highly motivated, and qualified nurse sister "Endnow" (verbal translation) in charge:

[Bluespunk]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

To say sexual harassment doesn’t exist in Thailand

Is to lie...

[zaphod reborn]

While the OP is correct that no cases of sexual harassment have been filed in court, it does not mean that claims of sexual harassment haven't been made, and settled informally, perhaps even with assistance of police.

 

There are two types of sexual harrassment:  quid pro quo and offensive work environment.  The Thai labor code doesn't recognize offensive work environment, but does have prohibitions against quid pro quo sexual harassment.  In these cases, the employer or supervising manager demands sexual favors in exchange for employment benefits, or under threat of taking action against the employee.

 

Because of the very nature of a quid pro quo case, these cases are often settled, as the employer or supervising manager doesn't want the charges to go public.  Thailand does need to update its labor code to include offensive work environment, which is where conduct of a sexual nature causes the employee to experience difficulty performing their job duties (ie, sending dirty pictures to female staff or habitual sexual advances).  But, the labor code doesn't even recognize claims of racial, religious or sexual orientation discrimination (gender discrimination is recognized in a limited way with respect to pregnancy), so it is a long way from expanding sexual harassment to include offensive work environments.

 

 

[SkyNets]

No sexual harassment cases filed in court as most end in a shoot out.

Edited November 12, 2018 by SkyNets

[Ulic]

I know for a fact that most men who walk around Pattaya/Patong in the evenings are sexually harassed . 

[DrTuner]

Probably because PC-metoo  is still to arrive and the locals dont yet know they could profit from becoming a "victim".

[ta158]

6 hours ago, Lupatria said:

According to statistics of 2014, an average of 87 cases of sexual violence against women and children per day are reported in Thailand – i.e. one case every 15 minutes. Officially, the number for 2013 was 31.866. The number of unreported cases from the category Tyrannosaurus Sex is correspondingly higher! And to cope with the country's hub of hubs status, domestic violence increased by 30.8 percent between 2009 and 2012.
Sorry, I couldn’t find newer stats. 

In a former post I mentioned Big Joke may declare Thailand a rape-free zone, looks like he found somebody else to do the job.
 

 Domestic violence is real bad in Los

[attrayant]

The "East Meets West" project has many thought-provoking images showing both cultural and simple behavioral differences between the two hemispheres, but this one is probably most germane to this discussion:

 

[observer90210]

Just hope that Thailand never reaches the extremes of certain western nations where even saying a friendly or cheeky "hello" to a co-worker,  can be liable to file sexual harassment...it is becomming one big joke of the west....

Edited November 12, 2018 by observer90210

[attrayant]

37 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

saying a friendly or cheeky "hello" to a co-worker, can be liable to file sexual harassment.

 

When did that happen?

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

 

When did that happen?

A stretch but the woman (of course) could say you leered, stared, “Made a face” it in any way caused her to be uncomfortable. Now it’s your problem.

 

Good rule of thumb in today’s workplace is never comment on anothers appearance (compliment or otherwise), and avoid if being in a one on one situation with a woman or any so called “minority”. As that is all but impossible now I’m glad I retired!

[happy chappie]

I honestly don't believe one word of what comes out of the governments reports.1% unemployment,no prostitution or drugs in Pattaya,floods are under control,pesticides are not harmful,tourism is up,exports are through the roof.the list of bs is never ending.

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, attrayant said:

 

When did that happen?

July 2016, UK,

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/county-in-uk-makes-it-a-hate-crime-to-upset-women

 

"If you talk to a woman in Nottinghamshire, East Midlands in the United Kingdom and she doesn't want to be spoken to by you, prepare to get a call from the police."

[manarak]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

July 2016, UK,

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/county-in-uk-makes-it-a-hate-crime-to-upset-women

 

"If you talk to a woman in Nottinghamshire, East Midlands in the United Kingdom and she doesn't want to be spoken to by you, prepare to get a call from the police."

the world has gone totally nuts

[manarak]

4 hours ago, attrayant said:

The "East Meets West" project has many thought-provoking images showing both cultural and simple behavioral differences between the two hemispheres, but this one is probably most germane to this discussion:

 

I wonder who in his right mind would say that the left/blue part of the picture represents a desirable state of things.

 

Also, it doesn't represent the "West", but only a part of the "West", mostly political-correctness-friendly office environments where "bosses" are often reduced to just being excel sheet jockeys, timesheet controllers, periodic performance reviewers and meeting moderators.

 

By the way, I would like to ask for assistance here, I lack a proper, neutral, almost PC word for describing that sort of office environment ?

all words I can imagine are either wrong or unduly positive (such as "progressist" - this one being both wrong and too flattering) or too insulting/negative (environment for beta males or whipped or submissive management).

So is there a more or less neutral word describing how office environments are at Google, Facebook and the headquarters of large European corporations?

 

[DrTuner]

45 minutes ago, manarak said:

By the way, I would like to ask for assistance here, I lack a proper, neutral, almost PC word for describing that sort of office environment ?

Neutered?

[attrayant]

1 hour ago, manarak said:

I wonder who in his right mind would say that the left/blue part of the picture represents a desirable state of things.

 

I would.  In every job I've ever had, the boss didn't lord himself over us.  Employees felt like equals, even if HR didn't consider them to be.  These were all highly productive work environments, and a moment's thought should make obvious why that is.

 

1 hour ago, manarak said:

political-correctness-friendly office environments where "bosses" are often reduced to just being excel sheet jockeys, timesheet controllers, periodic performance reviewers and meeting moderators.

 

They aren't "reduced" because they are bosses.  They choose to use this management style.  Bosses that act like royalty and demand their workers genuflect before them have a high turnover rate and, well, suck.

 

1 hour ago, manarak said:

I lack a proper, neutral, almost PC word for describing that sort of office environment ? 

 

Productive? Equal? Fair? Considerate?

 

1 hour ago, manarak said:

So is there a more or less neutral word describing how office environments are at Google, Facebook and the headquarters of large European corporations?

 

I like how you picked two of the most successful, profitable companies that have some of the highest employee satisfaction ratings.

[attrayant]

1 hour ago, DrTuner said:

Neutered?

 

Can you speculate as to why a leader might do that to themself?

[attrayant]

2 hours ago, manarak said:

the world has gone totally nuts

 

That article is not about the world, it's about a county in the UK.

[Katia]

15 hours ago, Cadbury said:

 

In my days it used to be called flirting and was acceptable behavior for both men and women.

In these enlightened times for men it is now referred to as sexual harassment. Flirting and being seductive is still OK for women.

Flirting and sexual harassment are two very different things.  If you wouldn't say it in front of your mother, if you wouldn't want someone saying it to your sister, maybe you shouldn't say it.  Also, it's not "flirting" if she doesn't want it, so if she doesn't respond in kind, acts uncomfortable, doesn't seem to want to talk to you... back off.

 

There, that wasn't so hard.

 

 

4 hours ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

A stretch but the woman (of course) could say you leered, stared, “Made a face” it in any way caused her to be uncomfortable. Now it’s your problem.

 

Good rule of thumb in today’s workplace is never comment on anothers appearance (compliment or otherwise), and avoid if being in a one on one situation with a woman or any so called “minority”. As that is all but impossible now I’m glad I retired!

It's a quite simple thing to remember for the workplace (or anywhere else): if you wouldn't do or say it to a man, don't do or say it to a woman.  Would you tell your male coworker he looks nice today?  Would you put your hand on his shoulder when you hand him some paperwork?  Would you hug him when you greet him?  Would you lean over his desk when you talk to him?  Would you hand over your kid for him to watch when you bring your kid to work?  Would you expect him to plan the office parties and bring in treats to share?  No?  Then why do it to a woman?  She's still simply your coworker.    Why would you treat one differently than the other?

Edited November 12, 2018 by Katia

[BritManToo]

6 hours ago, Katia said:

Would you expect him to plan the office parties and bring in treats to share? 

Would you put your hand on his shoulder when you hand him some paperwork?  Would you hug him when you greet him?  Would you lean over his desk when you talk to him? 

We always hired a catering/party firm.

I remember one called "The pussy posse" (central London 1995) who were really good.

As for my office, about 50% gays so yes to all of the above, usually them doing it to me, it was never a problem it never traumatised me, I saw it as normal social interaction between human beings. Not everyone hates the other sex, or even their own sex.

Edited November 13, 2018 by BritManToo

[DrTuner]

13 hours ago, Katia said:

Also, it's not "flirting" if she doesn't want it, so if she doesn't respond in kind, acts uncomfortable, doesn't seem to want to talk to you... back off.

Too late, you're <deleted> already, expect a law suit.

 

 

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

It's a quite simple thing to remember for the workplace (or anywhere else): if you wouldn't do or say it to a man, don't do or say it to a woman.  Would you tell your male coworker he looks nice today?  Would you put your hand on his shoulder when you hand him some paperwork?  Would you hug him when you greet him?  Would you lean over his desk when you talk to him?  Would you hand over your kid for him to watch when you bring your kid to work?  Would you expect him to plan the office parties and bring in treats to share?  No?  Then why do it to a woman?  She's still simply your coworker.    Why would you treat one differently than the other?

 

Totally true. I didn’t say or do anything like that.

What about the about incompetent people being promoted over their punching weight for diversity? Then the huge problem using false accusations and harassment to cover failures and right perceived wrongs committed by the so-called white male patriarchy? SAD. Peoples lives are being ruined by this. So just as there is nothing such as reverse racism, harassment is harassment!

 

By the way they can dish it out, but they can’t take it! Not fair.