Has Anyone Used Monthly Income without the Income Letter?

[4MyEgo]

9 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

You're missing the point that not everyone has the same resources, ideas or preferences...to be clear...YOURS. While I have the means to put the baht in the bank...it is definitely not my preference to have an idle $25k wallowing in a crappy Thai savings acct. Much better ways to put that tidy sum to work...but "c'est la vie".

 

That said...after my last Embassy Income Affidavit and "Retirement Extension" next month which gives me another year, I will have the seasoned ฿800k in the bank next year. Not my preference, but appears to be the easiest way to comply. However, others may certainly find this to be a financial burden...or simply impossible. 

I have just found it so much easier to put one lump sum in the bank 3 months before the extension and use that money to survive on for the year, starting straight after mt extension approval, no additional fee to verify ay letter/s or any additional fees to get it sent over into my account every month, also having to worry about varying exchange rats, but each to their own.

 

I think you will find it easier once you start next year, and yes compliance can be a pain in the a$$ for sum.

[4MyEgo]

12 hours ago, Issanjohn said:

Well obviously you’re probably gonna spend it unless you’re rich but I believe you just have to verify your income as in showing that the money has been coming in every month or you can show money in savings.  

Obviously not, I have been putting in the funds 3 months before my extension, and I draw down on it monthly after the extension has been submitted.

 

If you have a problem handling money, well, that's a problem, for me, it's simple, I pull out a set amount each month which is what I set as my budget and use it wisely, not frively, wisely and it has worked for me, suffice to say it doesn't cost me any extra to get an income statement certified by the embassy or having to pay each time funds are transferred into my account or worry about the exchange rate, and it gives me some kind of security knowing that I have funds in the bank incase of an emergency, rich in Thailand I suppose you could say I am, but if managing my money has had anything to do with that, well, I will drink to that.

Edited November 15, 2018 by 4MyEgo

[Joe Mcseismic]

Wot 'e said^^

Edited November 15, 2018 by Joe Mcseismic

[UKresonant]

On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 4:46 PM, JohnnyBD said:

Thank you JLCrab… will put on my calendar... Kindly, Johnny

I'm a novice here, but is your scheduled, 1st June, potentially 6 months out of Sync. With the tax year? Of course ongoing your 800k will be from the previous calendar tax year (sorry if I've stated the obvious)

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1027274-youre-deemed-a-resident-of-thailand-if-you-stay-180-days/

[JLCrab]

At least in part to the wise money manager guy above, I have used the affidavit based extension via income for 10 years now with several 1-year multi entry non-IMM B visas for the years prior to that.

 

I don't want to put 800K baht in a Thai bank if I don;t have to.  Just my preference not for interest or investment consideration. I have always via ATM or Bangkok Bank ACH transferred 65K+ baht to Thailand every month anyway. So I am now doing that via FTT * transfer in the event that will be an acceptable option or maybe an O-A in the USA where I go at least every 2 years any way.

 

* Note: As a math guy I always have to correct FTT from FFT as in Fast Fourier Transform.

[Guest]

A question for all is if you get 40,000 + deposited into your Thai bank account each month on the same day from your country of origin and had the years bank statement to take to immigration office for your annual extension is that sufficient proof of income.

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, JLCrab said:

And whatever the downside risk, it may be a good idea to start making those 65K+ baht monthly 'FTT' deposits anyway.

It's 40K for me (married to a Thai), and I have that much being transferred in, in any case. 

 

But, an IO rejected my Non-O stamp application in 2017, claiming that "income" was not a way of qualifying for it, and showing a list of requirements which did not match the official list and did not include "income" at all.  My embassy-letter was in the stack of documents handed to them, and the "disclamer" on the letter was cited as making it meaningless. 

 

I had heard that some people were asked to back-up their embassy-letter info, and was prepared.  I offered up my bank-book showing well over this amount being transferred in from overseas ("FTT" clearly marked on each transfer) - but there was no interest in viewing "proof," since the Purpose Of The Exercise, was to force me to an agent (previous reports indicate the IO in question previously accepted direct-payments in the office, vs laundered via-agent). 

 

I was then told I could go on repeated tourist-visa-runs while seasoning money (official docs for this service do not require seasoned-money, either), and they would re-consider.  No mention of going out for a Non-O Visa from an embassy was ever mentioned, as there is no agent-money in that.

 

I have no reason to believe what is happening now is any different - just another crooked scam on a larger scale.  But, again, I sincerely hope to be proven wrong. Maybe it will come down to IOs decisions in different offices - some allowing the foreign-transfer proof, and others opting to hold-out for agent-money.

Edited November 16, 2018 by JackThompson

[SEtonal]

14 hours ago, kokopelli said:

In Pattaya some person asked the chief at Jomtien Immigration what they needed for the extension. Answer was, after 1 January, you will  need 800,000 Baht for three months prior to extension. Nothing else acceptable. Here is the text:

 

He was told that after January 1, Pattaya immigration will only approve retirement visas for applicants who can prove 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account for at least 3 consecutive months prior to applying, period! 
The chief made it clear - no matter what anyone else has been told or who told them, even if they were told by immigration officers, Pattaya immigration will accept embassy verification letters only until January 1 and even then, the letters will be accepted only if they were issued by the embassy on or before December 12. After January 1 no embassy verification letters will be accepted.

This would explain why the Denmark Embassy abruptly stopped taking requests for income letters.  According to a Danish poster, it takes the embassy two to four weeks to produce an income letter. The Denmark Embassy could not guarantee that income letters would be issued by December 12 if the request came in after mid-November. 

[Issanjohn]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Obviously not, I have been putting in the funds 3 months before my extension, and I draw down on it monthly after the extension has been submitted.

 

If you have a problem handling money, well, that's a problem, for me, it's simple, I pull out a set amount each month which is what I set as my budget and use it wisely, not frively, wisely and it has worked for me, suffice to say it doesn't cost me any extra to get an income statement certified by the embassy or having to pay each time funds are transferred into my account or worry about the exchange rate, and it gives me some kind of security knowing that I have funds in the bank incase of an emergency, rich in Thailand I suppose you could say I am, but if managing my money has had anything to do with that, well, I will drink to that.

Sorry didn’t have time to read your hole post but I was just saying might as well make the best of it and use it as a budgeting method.  I do make a lot of money but honestly I usually do somehow end up spending most of my paycheck lol. I know even in Thailand lol.  I do save a lot of money most of the time though plus I have savings and my TSP account from the military which is like an IRA.  

[JackThompson]

6 minutes ago, SEtonal said:

14 hours ago, kokopelli said:

In Pattaya some person asked the chief at Jomtien Immigration what they needed for the extension. Answer was, after 1 January, you will  need 800,000 Baht for three months prior to extension. Nothing else acceptable. Here is the text:

 

He was told that after January 1, Pattaya immigration will only approve retirement visas for applicants who can prove 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account for at least 3 consecutive months prior to applying, period! 
The chief made it clear - no matter what anyone else has been told or who told them, even if they were told by immigration officers, Pattaya immigration will accept embassy verification letters only until January 1 and even then, the letters will be accepted only if they were issued by the embassy on or before December 12. After January 1 no embassy verification letters will be accepted.

This would explain why the Denmark Embassy abruptly stopped taking requests for income letters.  According to a Danish poster, it takes the embassy two to four weeks to produce an income letter. The Denmark Embassy could not guarantee that income letters would be issued by December 12 if the request came in after mid-November. 

It could be just that office - or it could be a "tit for tat" escalation.  Three embassies responded to TI's demand with "If our nation's official documents aren't good enough for you, then we won't provide them any more." - and TI has countered with, "Fine!  Then we won't accept your worthless letters starting in Jan 2019.  Never mind we gave our word they were good for 6 months in an official police order." 

[Moonlover]

2 hours ago, jewell49 said:

A question for all is if you get 40,000 + deposited into your Thai bank account each month on the same day from your country of origin and had the years bank statement to take to immigration office for your annual extension is that sufficient proof of income.

The rational mind says yes. But sadly, there don't seem to be many of those around just now.

 

I am proceeding along those lines myself, mainly because I have no choice.

 

A clearer picture will emerge in the new year as the last of the embassy letters. Hopefully this matter will be resolved by then.

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, Issanjohn said:

Sorry didn’t have time to read your hole post but I was just saying might as well make the best of it and use it as a budgeting method.  I do make a lot of money but honestly I usually do somehow end up spending most of my paycheck lol. I know even in Thailand lol.  I do save a lot of money most of the time though plus I have savings and my TSP account from the military which is like an IRA.  

All good, and yes the money does go pretty quick, hence the reason I use a whole amount that I put into my Thai account 3 months before the extension is due to be submitted, and then I use it after I submit it, for example, I pull out 60,000 baht per month and stick it in the safe in 6 stacks of 10,000 and take one stack when I need it, at the same time, I do write on a daily list where I spent the money ( yes pain in the a$$, but at the end of the week I tally up which tells me how I am going, for example for the 2 weeks to 15 November I have spent 33,309 baht which tells me I am 3,309 baht over budget half way into the month, although I did spend up big stocking up on meat for the next couple of months which took me over budget, but will balance out come end of the month, that and it gives me a idea where my money is going and if I need to top up from y overseas account using Transferwise, which is seldom required.

 

What I make from other sources goes straight into my bank account back in the old country from which I will draw down at a later date. I don't have a pension or anything like that, but it would be a total hassle for me to print out what I make in a month to give to immigration, besides I don't want them knowing what I make in a month or year, as that would just rub salt into their already bleeding wounds having us here as guests every extension, compared to what they earn which would be about 1/5th or 1/10th depending on how markets are going.

Edited November 16, 2018 by 4MyEgo

[JLCrab]

I am going to make the 65K+ baht monthly FTT transfer at least until something is decided that the passbook route is acceptable or next JULY 2019 when I either have to get the O-A in the US or make the 800K baht deposit (or the Elite thing).

 

All I'll be out is the monthly transfer cost but that is no big deal considering the possible upside.

[JohnnyBD]

5 hours ago, johnwf1963 said:

I'm a novice here, but is your scheduled, 1st June, potentially 6 months out of Sync. With the tax year? Of course ongoing your 800k will be from the previous calendar tax year (sorry if I've stated the obvious)

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1027274-youre-deemed-a-resident-of-thailand-if-you-stay-180-days/

Hi johnwf1963,

My extension expires in Oct 2019, so I will go in Sep to renew. I will need to put the 800k in my bank account in Jun so it can season for 3 mths. As for paying taxes, all of my US income is retirement type income & passive income from investments such as; company pension, social security, stock dividends, etc., and I pay taxes on that income in the US, not in Thailand. The only taxes I pay in Thailand are the 15% withholding taxes on my bank account interest. I don't know what taxes people pay in Thailand on income earned from inside or outside of Thailand while a resident here. I just know I don't have to pay any taxes in Thailand on my US sourced income due to both countries tax agreements...

 

Maybe Ubonjoe or Tanoshi could help answer that tax question... Kindly, Johnny

Edited November 16, 2018 by JohnnyBD

[marcusarelus]

On 11/14/2018 at 8:25 PM, KhunFred said:

I have THREE sources of income. Social Security, state retirement ( can be verified with a tax statement) and an annuity with documents showing what I get monthly. NONE of those are accepted because someone might have to READ something to get the meaning. It's like dealing with an eight year old who wants his way ALL the time and under ALL circumstances. Bottom line: they really don't want us here. That infusion of cash from expat spending makes the locals jealous and makes them realize that they are getting shafted every day of their lives. You cannot speak truth to power here.

Are we going to have to read all the whinging people again or is this thread really going to be about anyone who has used Monthly Income without the Income Letter?

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Are we going to have to read all the whinging people again

Catharsis.

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, JLCrab said:

Catharsis.

Perhaps someone could start a whinging thread so the factual information would be easier to access?

[JLCrab]

4 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Perhaps someone could start a whinging thread so the factual information would be easier to access?

What are you -- someone might have to READ something to get the meaning. It's like dealing with an eight year old who wants his way ALL the time and under ALL circumstances?

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

What are you -- someone might have to READ something to get the meaning. It's like dealing with an eight year old who wants his way ALL the time and under ALL circumstances?

There are 6,976 posts on the topic.  That would take 116 hours to read.  Don't you think it's a bit much? 

[JLCrab]

12 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

There are 6,976 posts on the topic.  That would take 116 hours to read.  Don't you think it's a bit much? 

I'm no mod.

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

I'm no mod.

You wrote, "What are you -- someone might have to READ something to get the meaning. It's like dealing with an eight year old who wants his way ALL the time and under ALL circumstances?"  Certainly sounds very like someone who is in authority telling me what to do eh?

[skatewash]

If this thread were about actual people's experience using the income method without showing the embassy income letter it would have extremely few posts.  Actually, no posts, since I've never heard in recent years of anyone receiving an extension of stay for retirement or marriage based on the income method (or combined method) without an embassy income letter.  So this thread is soliciting evidence that doesn't, as far as I know, exist yet.

In fact, if you would like to hear more troubling news, you could check out this thread where Danish citizens (who can no longer get embassy income letters) are being rejected at Thai Immigration Offices when trying to use the income method for the reason that they, of course, have no embassy income letter from the Danish Embassy (for the very good reason that they are not issuing them anymore).  

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1068630-denmark-embassy-has-stopped-doing-pension-letters/?page=21&tab=comments#comment-13568386

 

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

You wrote, "What are you -- someone might have to READ something to get the meaning. It's like dealing with an eight year old who wants his way ALL the time and under ALL circumstances?"  Certainly sounds very like someone who is in authority telling me what to do eh?

I didn't write it -- he did. You responded.

Posted 2 hours ago

Edited November 16, 2018 by JLCrab

[BoBoTheClown]

So after you guys put the 400,000 or 800,000 baht in a Thai Bank what money do you use to eat and pay rent?. 

 

 

 

 

[skatewash]

11 minutes ago, BoBoTheClown said:

So after you guys put the 400,000 or 800,000 baht in a Thai Bank what money do you use to eat and pay rent?. 

 

 

 

 

The 800,000 balance must be maintained for three months only, the rest of the year it pays for my day-to-day expenses.

Basically, I top up my account three months before applying for the retirement extension to 800,000 + estimated expenses for the 3-month seasoning period.  The day after the extension of stay is granted all the money in this account can be spent as needed.

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, JLCrab said:

What are you -- someone might have to READ something to get the meaning. It's like dealing with an eight year old who wants his way ALL the time and under ALL circumstances?

Did you or someone else write your above post?

[JLCrab]

Someone else did. I just copied it.

Edited November 16, 2018 by JLCrab

[JohnnyBD]

THIRD-HAND INFO - DETAILS NOT CONFIRMED

Someone sent me this message stating that their friend used an agent in Chiang Mai and was able to get their extension-of-stay without a US Consulate income affidavit. I replied back asking what proof of income was used, but haven't received a response. If it was under the table, it probably didn't matter what proof of income was used and the person didn't say how much the agent was paid for this service.

Kindly, Johnny

 

3 hours ago, noise said:

UbonJoe said:  At this time it is not possible to apply for an extension of stay without proof of income from an embassy for income from abroad.

 

That is true but misleading.  My American friend renewed his extension of stay in Chiangmai early this week through an agent with only proof of income, no U.S. Consulate letter.   

 

So I know it can be done.  Yet to be determined if all Chiangmai agents working the desks will accept just the proof.

Edited November 16, 2018 by JohnnyBD

[DUNROAMIN]

On 11/15/2018 at 7:24 PM, joevanwyck said:

Hope everything works out.

Reference Income for retirement.

Went to my Immigration office today with two lots of "Proof of Income" No Embassy Affidavit or Stat Dec provided.

 

1. Official Government letters from Australian Military pension and Government Department of Veterans Affairs/age pension.

2. Bank statements from Australian bank showing transfers of funds to Thailand bank account, verified and signed. This verified an annual income of over B800,000.00.

I was also nearly due for 3 month visit this month and 12 month extension in December, the female immigration officer went out of her way and organised my 3 month and 12 month extension at the same time, her boss granted me a 40 day extension on top of my 12 month extension. It did take a bit longer than normal explaining my income, however, the staff at my immigration office were extremely helpful and polite.

I guess not all immigration offices are the same, maybe I was lucky or maybe its a matter of keeping your cool and working with these people and not against them.

 

Next year I am getting legally married to my girl, which will make it easier for income, B400,00.00 in the bank, or B40,000.00 per month. I am happy with B400,000.00 in a Thai bank, it will make things so much easier next year, not to mention many other benefits being married to a Thai.

Good luck to all with your visa extensions.

Cheers

 

 

 

 

[skatewash]

20 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

Reference Income for retirement.

Went to my Immigration office today with two lots of "Proof of Income" No Embassy Affidavit or Stat Dec provided.

 

1. Official Government letters from Australian Military pension and Government Department of Veterans Affairs/age pension.

2. Bank statements from Australian bank showing transfers of funds to Thailand bank account, verified and signed. This verified an annual income of over B800,000.00.

I was also nearly due for 3 month visit this month and 12 month extension in December, the female immigration officer went out of her way and organised my 3 month and 12 month extension at the same time, her boss granted me a 40 day extension on top of my 12 month extension. It did take a bit longer than normal explaining my income, however, the staff at my immigration office were extremely helpful and polite.

I guess not all immigration offices are the same, maybe I was lucky or maybe its a matter of keeping your cool and working with these people and not against them.

 

Next year I am getting legally married to my girl, which will make it easier for income, B400,00.00 in the bank, or B40,000.00 per month. I am happy with B400,000.00 in a Thai bank, it will make things so much easier next year, not to mention many other benefits being married to a Thai.

Good luck to all with your visa extensions.

Cheers

 

 

 

 

Excellent news!  This is the first first-person report I've seen of a successful application with proof of income but without the embassy income letter and done by a person without the help of an agent.  Congratulations and hope this opportunity will be extended to everyone trying to use the income method going forward.  Just one question:  which Immigration Office did you use?

Just noticed Mukdahan as your location. ????  So, that Immigration Office, right?

Edited November 16, 2018 by skatewash
Penny dropped.