Britain agrees Brexit divorce deal with EU, May's opponents vow to thwart it

[webfact]

Britain agrees Brexit divorce deal with EU, May's opponents vow to thwart it

By Guy Faulconbridge and Elizabeth Piper

 

FILE PHOTO: Anti-Brexit protesters hold flags and placards opposite the Houses of Parliament in London, Britain, October 17, 2018. REUTERS/Hannah McKay

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain struck a draft divorce deal with the European Union after more than a year of talks, thrusting Prime Minister Theresa May into a perilous battle over Brexit that could shape her country's prosperity for generations to come.

 

While Brussels choreographs the first withdrawal of a sovereign state from the EU, May, a far from secure leader hemmed in by opponents in government and her own Conservative party, must now try to get the deal approved by her cabinet and, in the toughest test of all, by parliament.

 

Brexiteers in May's party accused her of surrendering to the EU and said they would vote the deal down while the Northern Irish party which props up her minority government questioned whether she would be able to get parliamentary approval.

 

"The trick will be for Theresa May, can she satisfy everyone?" said Nigel Dodds, the deputy leader of the Northern Irish Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) which keeps her government in power.

 

"It is going to be a very, very hard sell, I would have thought, but let's wait and see the actual detail," Dodds said.

 

The British cabinet will meet at 1400 GMT on Wednesday to consider the draft withdrawal agreement, a Downing Street spokesman said after Irish and British media were leaked details of the agreement on the text.

 

Sterling, which has seesawed since reaching $1.50 just before Britain's 2016 referendum that saw a 52-48 percent margin for leaving the EU, surged on news of a deal but then erased some gains as opponents lined up to criticise May.

 

Brexit will pitch the world's fifth largest economy into the unknown and many fear it will serve to divide the West as it grapples with both the unconventional presidency of Donald Trump and growing assertiveness from Russia and China.

 

Supporters of Brexit say that while the divorce might bring some short-term instability, in the longer term it will allow the United Kingdom to thrive and also enable deeper EU integration without such a powerful reluctant member.

 

SELLING BREXIT

A senior EU official confirmed that a draft text had been agreed. EU leaders could meet on Nov. 25 for a summit to seal the Brexit deal if May's cabinet approves the text, diplomatic sources said.

 

The EU and Britain need an agreement to keep trade flowing between the world's biggest trading bloc and the United Kingdom, home to the biggest international financial centre.

 

But May, an initial opponent of Brexit who won the top job in the turmoil that followed the referendum, has struggled to untangle nearly 46 years of EU membership without damaging commerce or upsetting the lawmakers who will ultimately decide the fate of the divorce accord.

 

By seeking to leave the EU while preserving the closest possible ties, May's compromise plan has upsetBrexiteers, pro-Europeans, Scottish nationalists, the Northern Irish party that props up her government, and some of her own ministers.

 

It is unclear when parliament might vote on a deal. To get the deal approved she needs the votes of about 320 lawmakers in the 650-seat parliament. She faces a deeply divided government, party, parliament and country.

 

BREXIT BETRAYAL?

Prominent Brexiteers such as Conservative lawmaker Jacob Rees-Mogg and former Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson said May had sold out the United Kingdom and that they would oppose it.

 

"It is a failure of the government's negotiating position, it is a failure to deliver on Brexit, and it is potentially dividing up the United Kingdom," Conservative lawmaker Jacob Rees-Mogg said.

 

The opposition Labour Party, which has said it would oppose any agreement that does not retain "the exact same" economic benefits that it now has with the EU, said it was unlikely the announced deal was right for Britain.

 

"It is vassal state stuff," Johnson said, adding that he would vote against such an unacceptable accord. "Chuck it out."

 

Johnson's brother, Jo, a pro-European, resigned from May's government on Friday, calling for another referendum to avoid her Brexit plans unleashing Britain’s greatest crisis since World War Two.

 

IRELAND

May formally began Britain’s divorce in March 2017, ushering in tortuous negotiations on everything from space exploration and fishing territories to selling complex financial products and the future of the land border on the island of Ireland.

 

As deadlines passed, officials such as Britain's Olly Robbins and the Commission's Sabine Weyand, a German, raced to get a deal in late night sessions at the European Commission's modernist Berlaymont building in Brussels.

 

With less than five months until Britain leaves the EU, the so-called Northern Irish backstop was the main sticking point.

 

The backstop is an insurance policy to avoid a return to controls on the border between the British province of Northern Ireland and EU member state Ireland if a future trading relationship is not agreed in time.

 

The British government supplied no immediate details on the Brexit deal text, which runs to hundreds of pages.

 

Three EU sources said the backstop would come in the form of a UK-wide customs arrangement, with specific provisions for Northern Ireland which go deeper on the issue of customs and alignment with the rules of the EU single market than for the rest of the United Kingdom.

 

It would include a review mechanism to bridge between EU demands that the insurance policy is permanently available and Britain's request to avoid being held in a customs alliance with the bloc perpetually.

 

The Northern Irish Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) have ruled out any deal that treats Northern Ireland differently.

 

(Additional reporting by William James, Kylie MacLellan, Andrew MacAskill, Kate Holton and Alistair Smout in London and Alistair Macdonald and Gabriela Baczynska in Brussels; Writing by Guy Faulconbridge, editing by David Stamp, William Maclean, Richard Balmforth)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-11-14

[Grouse]

So, what is the proposed deal?

[Samui Bodoh]

"...The trick will be for Theresa May, can she satisfy everyone?"

 

The answer is NO! Not a chance in hell. Zip. Zero. Nada. Nil. No.

 

The problem here is that the proper groundwork/prep work for Brexit was never done. Cameron the Idiot thought that it would simply quiet the Right of his party. Other leaders thought that the remain side would just win. After the vote, no one really prepared the British public for the true consequences. And, to this day no one really understood what precisely were the terms (hmm and still don't, but it'll be published soon).

 

This is, as the US military so aptly puts it, a clusterf**K. A giant clusterf**k. A huge, giant, enormous clusterf**k.

 

And, since the proper groundwork was never done, since internal agreements were never reached, since parts of the nation support Brexit and others don't, no unified agreement is possible.

 

So, in the end, no agreement will be made, the UK will crash out of Europe, and it'll pay the price for all this stupidity for generations.

 

Well done!

 

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Samui Bodoh

[Kiwiken]

And does the deal include the British Army being absorbed in to A European Nationale Grande Armee

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

So, in the end, no agreement will be made, the UK will crash out of Europe, and it'll pay the price for all this stupidity for generations.

This no deal brexit might really be the case. There has been too much internal fighting within UK. 

 

If there is a customs union brexit deal coming, I wonder would the British members of the parliament vote for it to salvage what is still salvageable? 

[Grouse]

Time to bring down the "government"

Edited November 14, 2018 by Grouse

[OneMoreFarang]

It seems they do it the wrong way around.

Some minor officials from the UK and EU worked out something they would sign.

And now this draft will be shown to the people in charge and it is known already that they have other ideas and there won't be a majority about what the minor officials decided.

That seems like a total waste of resources to me.

I think the main players should agree on the big pictures first. And they should make sure they have a majority for this on both sides of the channel. And after they have that agreement in principle then let the minor officials work out the details.

Why don't highly paid politicians grasp these basic concepts?

[OneMoreFarang]

What did all those UK officials actually archive in the last two years?

Did they get paid for that?

It should be possible to sue them all for dereliction of duty and wasting tax payers money.

 

[VillageIdiot]

What a mess!

It certainly looks like the British are no longer able to govern themselves.

Not that my fellow Americans are any more capable in their own affairs. But that's no excuse for the Brits.

Both countries have gone to the dogs.

[mfd101]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems they do it the wrong way around.

Some minor officials from the UK and EU worked out something they would sign.

And now this draft will be shown to the people in charge and it is known already that they have other ideas and there won't be a majority about what the minor officials decided.

That seems like a total waste of resources to me.

I think the main players should agree on the big pictures first. And they should make sure they have a majority for this on both sides of the channel. And after they have that agreement in principle then let the minor officials work out the details.

Why don't highly paid politicians grasp these basic concepts?

As one of my bosses used to say to me: You're being rational again!

[mfd101]

And the irony is that the Brexiteers want a 'soft' Irish border.

 

Well, as they crash outta Europe, the one thing that's unavoidable will be a 'hard' border, and that includes for Ireland. Tsk tsk.

[Enoon]

5 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

So, in the end, no agreement will be made, the UK will crash out of Europe, and it'll pay the price for all this stupidity for generations.

 

 

 

 

 

Or vote of no confidence in Parliament.

 

After which everything changes while the EU suspends the process and waits for the UK to sort itself out and explain what it would like to do with regard to the future..

 

There are many who don't wish to hear that.......but that is just the way it is.

 

 

 

 

[Basil B]

5 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

And does the deal include the British Army being absorbed in to A European Nationale Grande Armee

NO

[vogie]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

Time to bring down the "government"

Empty rhetoric, and who will replace them?

 

Time to bring down PM May

[Basil B]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What did all those UK officials actually archive in the last two years?

Did they get paid for that?

It should be possible to sue them all for dereliction of duty and wasting tax payers money.

 

Certainly if this proposal is not carried the Tories will be finished as the party of government for decades.

I presume ministers will be told if you can not accept it resign now, any form of decent will see ministers sacked.

 

The no deal option should be a rerun of the Referendum,,, This time dependent on the result it should be clear what will happen.

 

 

[sawadee1947]

Rediculous. She can write what she wants. As long it is not signed by all EU members it is just for the bin! 

[sawadee1947]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems they do it the wrong way around.

Some minor officials from the UK and EU worked out something they would sign.

And now this draft will be shown to the people in charge and it is known already that they have other ideas and there won't be a majority about what the minor officials decided.

That seems like a total waste of resources to me.

I think the main players should agree on the big pictures first. And they should make sure they have a majority for this on both sides of the channel. And after they have that agreement in principle then let the minor officials work out the details.

Why don't highly paid politicians grasp these basic concepts?

Sorry but this is not right. 

UK people Wanted to leave. EU has nothing to do with this decision at first. There would never ever a majority in EU wishing UK the community. 

And you so called minor officials are specialists for EU rules 

[puipuitom]

8 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

And does the deal include the British Army being absorbed in to A European Nationale Grande Armee

Which Grande Armee ? Alreay a suggestion for decades, to form a kind of quick response brigade, but... armour not working, heli's grounded, no equipment, nothing...

The Dutch (professional) soldiers, which had to go for a training to Norway had to buy their own Northpole worthy jacks… Thanks to a gigantic laughter by all Dutch, they succeerded just-just-just in time to obtain them...

And the tanks... Netherlands had none, so.. happy to borrow 18 from Germany, who have now a 100 left. How many really operational… is a state secret.

[puipuitom]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

UK people Wanted to leave. 

 

UK people want to leave ?

You mean, the 2016? with <52% leave, but >48% remain ?

2016

	Votes	%
Leave	17,410,742	51.89%
Remain	16,141,241	48.11%
Valid votes	33,551,983	99.92%
Invalid or blank votes	25,359	0.08%

Results 5 June 1975   Votes %  Yes 17,378,581 67.23%  No 8,470,073 32.77% Valid votes 25,848,654 99.79% Invalid or blank votes 54,540 0.21% Total votes 25,903,194 100.00% Registered voters/turnout 40,086,677 64.62%

[dunroaming]

10 hours ago, Grouse said:

So, what is the proposed deal?

Bit's have been leaked but I am going to wait until we get the official version before steaming in.  That should be later today.  So far it looks as if it is absolutely as predicted and has been predicted from the start.  If it is then I can't see any way she will get it agreed and then what?  Stepping down?  General election?  No deal?

[StreetCowboy]

50 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

Which Grande Armee ? Alreay a suggestion for decades, to form a kind of quick response brigade, but... armour not working, heli's grounded, no equipment, nothing...

The Dutch (professional) soldiers, which had to go for a training to Norway had to buy their own Northpole worthy jacks… Thanks to a gigantic laughter by all Dutch, they succeerded just-just-just in time to obtain them...

And the tanks... Netherlands had none, so.. happy to borrow 18 from Germany, who have now a 100 left. How many really operational… is a state secret.

I love making up facts too.  But I don't get paid for it.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

11 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"...The trick will be for Theresa May, can she satisfy everyone?"

 

The answer is NO! Not a chance in hell. Zip. Zero. Nada. Nil. No.

 

The problem here is that the proper groundwork/prep work for Brexit was never done. Cameron the Idiot thought that it would simply quiet the Right of his party. Other leaders thought that the remain side would just win. After the vote, no one really prepared the British public for the true consequences. And, to this day no one really understood what precisely were the terms (hmm and still don't, but it'll be published soon).

 

This is, as the US military so aptly puts it, a clusterf**K. A giant clusterf**k. A huge, giant, enormous clusterf**k.

 

And, since the proper groundwork was never done, since internal agreements were never reached, since parts of the nation support Brexit and others don't, no unified agreement is possible.

 

So, in the end, no agreement will be made, the UK will crash out of Europe, and it'll pay the price for all this stupidity for generations.

 

Well done!

 

 

Many people have been calling for "clarification" on the agreement while negotiations were continuing. It has been said many times that "nothing is agreed until everything is agreed".  In that case how could any clarification possibly be given ?

 

An agreement between the EU and the UK government has now been announced and yet you say that :"no agreement will be made"  If you mean that the agreement now announced is still subject to approval by the 27 EU members and by the Cabinet and parliament, then of course you are correct.  However, the negotiations are over and the only alternative to accepting the agreement on offer is a "NO DEAL" scenario, which most sensible people would like to avoid, even if the deal is not exactly to their taste.  Given the alternatives available, i.e. the deal on offer or no deal, I believe that, despite all the hot air we will be subjected to over the next few weeks, the deal will eventually be approved. 

 

 With a virtual 50/50 split in the Brexit referendum, clearly about half of the voters are understandably not going to be happy, but, given that we ARE LEAVING in March next year, common sense in the circumstances will surely prevail and we will be leaving with the deal and all the doom and gloom merchants will be sadly disappointed.

[malagateddy]

Bit's have been leaked but I am going to wait until we get the official version before steaming in.  That should be later today.  So far it looks as if it is absolutely as predicted and has been predicted from the start.  If it is then I can't see any way she will get it agreed and then what?  Stepping down?  General election?  No deal?

Hopefully she will resign..then no deal..general election?? Sorry..crystal balls seen better days[emoji6]

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Bit's have been leaked but I am going to wait until we get the official version before steaming in.  That should be later today.  So far it looks as if it is absolutely as predicted and has been predicted from the start.  If it is then I can't see any way she will get it agreed and then what?  Stepping down?  General election?  No deal?

It's only 500 pages and I want a decision nowooooo! 

[Justin Side]

If the UK had a proper opposition this would have been booted into touch long ago.

What a shower.

[Jip99]

16 minutes ago, Justin Side said:

If the UK had a proper opposition this would have been booted into touch long ago.

What a shower.

 

You can't boot into touch something that had a 52%/48% majority.

 

 

I do agree that a half-decent opposition (with the desire to carry through the will of the people in a positive forward-thinking manner) would have made a better job of leaving.

 

 

A Blairite government would have smelt the opportunity and seized on their chance.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Jip99

[billd766]

5 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

I love making up facts too.  But I don't get paid for it.

But you could have done a little research in your own time and found what the equipment lists hold. I don't get paid for it either. Before I post on a subject that I know little or nothing about I search Google to see what comes up.

 

I know that this is from Wikipedia but make what you will of it.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipment_of_the_Royal_Netherlands_Army

 

You have to dig down near bottom of this link to find their equipment list.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Netherlands_Air_Force

[beautifulthailand99]

shhh keep it quiet but we're staying in via the back door and the gammon may have apoplexy but not one cares what you 'the peepel think' - keep posting those angry memes on Facebook and kowtowing to Rees-Mogg cos that's all that's left for your sad little Inglerlander fantasy....

 

Back in reality lets all get behind a rising pound and a return to reason....

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by beautifulthailand99

[nontabury]

On 11/14/2018 at 8:57 AM, puipuitom said:

 

UK people want to leave ?

You mean, the 2016? with <52% leave, but >48% remain ?

2016

	Votes	%
Leave	17,410,742	51.89%
Remain	16,141,241	48.11%
Valid votes	33,551,983	99.92%
Invalid or blank votes	25,359	0.08%

Results 5 June 1975   Votes %  Yes 17,378,581 67.23%  No 8,470,073 32.77% Valid votes 25,848,654 99.79% Invalid or blank votes 54,540 0.21% Total votes 25,903,194 100.00% Registered voters/turnout 40,086,677 64.62%

Please note that in 1975 we did not have the advantage of the social media.

We were in fact conned into joining a trading union, not expecting this farce to turn into the hated E.U.

 Therefore the British people decided to take their country back.

[baboon]

40 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Please note that in 1975 we did not have the advantage of the social media.

We were in fact conned into joining a trading union, not expecting this farce to turn into the hated E.U.

 Therefore the British people decided to take their country back.

Funny how Brexit hasn't proved a slamdunk given the collective will of the British people deciding to take their country back, as you imply...

Edited November 15, 2018 by baboon