Advice on supporting family please

[webfact]

New Salvadoran migrant caravan forms; hundreds wait at U.S.-Mexico border

By Nelson Renteria

 

 

People walk in a caravan of migrants departing from El Salvador en route to the United States, in San Salvador, El Salvador, November 18, 2018. REUTERS/Jose Cabezas

 

SAN SALVADOR (Reuters) - At least 150 Salvadorans set off on Sunday from their impoverished Central American country in a U.S.-bound caravan, ignoring their likely rejection at the U.S.-Mexico border where a larger caravan of mostly Hondurans has been stalled for days.

 

Guarded by police officers, the men, women and children of the gathering caravan marched through San Salvador's streets to Guatemala-bound buses, loaded with heavy backpacks, water and the knowledge of an arduous 2,700-mile (4,300-km) trek ahead to the U.S. border.

 

The group from El Salvador was at least the fourth caravan to set off since a first, large-scale mobilization in neighboring Honduras, which departed on Oct. 13 from the crime-wracked northern city of San Pedro Sula.

 

That caravan quickly grew to thousands as it moved north on daily 30-mile (50-km) treks. Many of its members were still winding their way on Sunday through Mexico toward the U.S border, where hundreds of early arrivals have been waiting since last week to cross.

 

Ahead of the Nov. 6 midterm U.S. congressional elections, President Donald Trump denounced the large caravan as an "invasion" that threatened American national security and sent thousands of active-duty U.S. troops to the border with Mexico. Trump has not publicly focused on the caravan since the election.

 

Inspired by the public spotlight on the larger caravan, Salvadorans organized themselves on social networks and the WhatsApp application to launch the latest effort.

 

Among them was Manuel Umana, a 53-year-old farmer from the town of San Pedro Masahuat, who said he decided to join Sunday's caravan to escape MS-13, a brutal criminal gang that controls large parts of El Salvador and neighboring Honduras.

 

"We are already threatened by the gangs where we live," said Umana, pointing to scars on his face he said gang members had inflicted five years ago. "We no longer can live with these people."

 

His motives echoed dozens of migrants in the earlier caravans who told Reuters they were abandoning their homes to escape a toxic mixture of violence, corruption and economic insecurity.

 

El Salvador and Honduras compete for the highest homicide rates in the world, according to official figures. Both countries rank among the poorest in the Americas.

 

"It is very dangerous but we have no other alternative. We are determined to do what we need to do," said Umana, before leaving with the rest of the caravan from the Salvadoran capital's central Plaza Salvador del Mundo.

 

Far to the north on Sunday, in the city of Tijuana that abuts California, hundreds of people from the larger caravan braced for planned protests from local Mexicans both in favor and against them.

 

Just over the northern border, nearly 6,000 U.S. troops in recent days have stretched barbed wire to dissuade illegal entries.

 

U.S. immigration authorities, meanwhile, barred passage to dozens of the migrants who in recent days formed orderly lines to enter through the San Ysidro Port of Entry connecting Mexico to San Diego.

 

(Additional reporting by Lizbeth Diaz in Tijuana; Writing by Delphine Schrank; Editing by Will Dunham)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-11-19

[jesimps]

Reminds me of the economic migrants crossing France to reach UK. 

Surely the country of asylum for these asylum seekers is Mexico. No doubt the lefties on here will blame Mr Trump.

[Boss]

Someone has to say it :  " It's getting crowded all over this globe " This is just the beginning.....

[TooPoopedToPop]

46 minutes ago, Boss said:

Someone has to say it :  " It's getting crowded all over this globe " This is just the beginning.....

There's plenty of room in Central and South America and abundant resources as well.

What they seem to lack is the ability to govern themselves.

[Thakkar]

[mok199]

2 hours ago, Boss said:

Someone has to say it :  " It's getting crowded all over this globe " This is just the beginning.....

Tons of room in Northern Saskatchewan Manitoba Alberta ...Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Scott]

A troll post with misinformation has been removed.   Continue to post untruthful information and receive a suspension.  

[unblocktheplanet]

It's really a matter of humanity. Central Americans are treated second-class in Mexico, too. Are Americans going to clean swimming pools or pick strawberries?

[Prissana Pescud]

Impossible not to feel for those fleeing from the violence in so many central American countries. Impossible also not to think that western democracy was established after much bloodshed, civil wars and the ability to finally sort out most of the problems. (including world wars) 

For so called refugees to think they can pick and choose a safe haven is perverse. The nearest safe haven for them is Mexico or countries to the south. 

Or ask for international assistance to help them rid their countries of corruption and violence. Or raise a civil army and cure their own problems.

Instead they choose to use apparently unlimited sums of money to force themselves on other countries where they are not invited and mostly not welcome.

[Credo]

3 hours ago, Prissana Pescud said:

Impossible not to feel for those fleeing from the violence in so many central American countries. Impossible also not to think that western democracy was established after much bloodshed, civil wars and the ability to finally sort out most of the problems. (including world wars) 

For so called refugees to think they can pick and choose a safe haven is perverse. The nearest safe haven for them is Mexico or countries to the south. 

Or ask for international assistance to help them rid their countries of corruption and violence. Or raise a civil army and cure their own problems.

Instead they choose to use apparently unlimited sums of money to force themselves on other countries where they are not invited and mostly not welcome.

You seem to have some pretty big expectations of some of the poorest people from these countries.   They have almost no voice, and if they did, they would ask for help.   But what they do have is feet and they are using them in place of a voice.   

 

Suggesting that they stay and face the danger and fight is like asking the people from California to stay and fight the fires.   Not very realistic is it?

 

The US has caused a great deal of instability in Central America.   It is now reaping what it has sown.   

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 12:11 AM, Boss said:

Someone has to say it :  " It's getting crowded all over this globe " This is just the beginning.....

I've been saying it for years. This was all foreseeable way back when poor countries exceeded their ability to provide work for the people that live in them, and that was reached many decades ago.

Of course, the west has exploited the situation to get cheap stuff, and now it's coming back to bite them on the bum.

 

Re the migrant caravan, I hope the sponsors of the caravan have deep pockets to pay for their food etc while waiting a very long time before being forced to give up. IMO, this is the situation on which Trump will make his stand, and he ain't gonna back down. I can't see the Dems forcing the GOP to let them through, as that would be a major vote loser in the heartland.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Credo said:

You seem to have some pretty big expectations of some of the poorest people from these countries.   They have almost no voice, and if they did, they would ask for help.   But what they do have is feet and they are using them in place of a voice.   

 

Suggesting that they stay and face the danger and fight is like asking the people from California to stay and fight the fires.   Not very realistic is it?

 

The US has caused a great deal of instability in Central America.   It is now reaping what it has sown.   

 

While I agree with you that the US is reaping what it sowed, to think that the migrants are doing it on their own accord is, IMO, laughable. Someone with deep pockets is paying for them to travel, IMO, and that someone/s has/ have an agenda.

The danger they face in their own country didn't happen in 2018, but decades ago, so something changed that they are now thinking they have some sort of "right" to be allowed into the US, rather than sorting their own country out.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 2:28 AM, mok199 said:

Tons of room in Northern Saskatchewan Manitoba Alberta ...Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Exactly. There is plenty of room on the planet, but the economic migrants don't want to go live there. They want to go somewhere nice to live.

[Credo]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

While I agree with you that the US is reaping what it sowed, to think that the migrants are doing it on their own accord is, IMO, laughable. Someone with deep pockets is paying for them to travel, IMO, and that someone/s has/ have an agenda.

The danger they face in their own country didn't happen in 2018, but decades ago, so something changed that they are now thinking they have some sort of "right" to be allowed into the US, rather than sorting their own country out.

Central Americans have been seeking asylum in the US for a long time.  You might want to check the statistics for the past decade.   Under Obama there were large numbers arriving (and large numbers of deportation).   The most contentious group during that time was unaccompanied minors as many parents were sending children to the US because of drug and gang related violence.   

 

The idea of traveling in caravans was, in part, due to the danger faced by those trying to get through Mexico.   Mexico is not particularly safe and asylum seekers were at the whims of human traffickers.   

 

There is no benefit to anyone in particular to 'fund' a caravan.   The only ones who might benefit, at least during the election cycle, were the Republicans, but I highly doubt they would spend money on such a poor endeavor.   

 

The troops are now being sent home and Trump's political stunt cost somewhere between $72 - $200 million.   And the Caravan hasn't arrived yet.

 

[riclag]

18 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

It's really a matter of humanity. Central Americans are treated second-class in Mexico, too. Are Americans going to clean swimming pools or pick strawberries?

  I'm originally from Bakersfield,Ca.Those jobs are already filled by the previous bunches,how many maids and strawberry pickers can a farmer or hotel use. I can't tell you how many different pool guys and lawn people I have coming to offer cheaper services . Many American's don't want them.When previous immigrants, now  Americans can't find work because illegals have taken them for cheaper hourly rates they go to the unemployment or ask for free assistance from Gov agencies , then in some cases it's difficult to get them back into the work force.

"Many occupations often thought to be worked overwhelmingly by immigrants (legal and illegal) are in fact majority native-born":

https://cis.org/Report/There-Are-No-Jobs-Americans-Wont-Do

 

Edited November 21, 2018 by riclag

[bristolboy]

35 minutes ago, riclag said:

  I'm originally from Bakersfield,Ca.Those jobs are already filled by the previous bunches,how many maids and strawberry pickers can a farmer or hotel use. I can't tell you how many different pool guys and lawn people I have coming to offer cheaper services . Many American's don't want them.When previous immigrants, now  Americans can't find work because illegals have taken them for cheaper hourly rates they go to the unemployment or ask for free assistance from Gov agencies , then in some cases it's difficult to get them back into the work force.

"Many occupations often thought to be worked overwhelmingly by immigrants (legal and illegal) are in fact majority native-born":

https://cis.org/Report/There-Are-No-Jobs-Americans-Wont-Do

 

If in fact the migrants in the field stayed in those fields for their entire working life you might have a point. But in fact there is a lot of migration back to Mexico.

[Cryingdick]

38 minutes ago, riclag said:

  I'm originally from Bakersfield,Ca.Those jobs are already filled by the previous bunches,how many maids and strawberry pickers can a farmer or hotel use. I can't tell you how many different pool guys and lawn people I have coming to offer cheaper services . Many American's don't want them.When previous immigrants, now  Americans can't find work because illegals have taken them for cheaper hourly rates they go to the unemployment or ask for free assistance from Gov agencies , then in some cases it's difficult to get them back into the work force.

"Many occupations often thought to be worked overwhelmingly by immigrants (legal and illegal) are in fact majority native-born":

https://cis.org/Report/There-Are-No-Jobs-Americans-Wont-Do

 

 

Another problem with the theory we need gardeners is that an American working on low wages doesn't send a good bulk of his money to Honduras or Guatemala. Much of this happens is because of the pressure back home to go get money and send it back. My friend was born in Nicaragua but American. He made the mistake of going back to his country of birth and is now constantly pestered to send money 'home"

 

So between lack of paying taxes, becoming a burden on the system and the sucking sound of money going south it is a problem.

[riclag]

1 hour ago, Cryingdick said:

 

Another problem with the theory we need gardeners is that an American working on low wages doesn't send a good bulk of his money to Honduras or Guatemala. Much of this happens is because of the pressure back home to go get money and send it back. My friend was born in Nicaragua but American. He made the mistake of going back to his country of birth and is now constantly pestered to send money 'home"

 

So between lack of paying taxes, becoming a burden on the system and the sucking sound of money going south it is a problem.

 Yes and to take that another step.Many on the humanitarian left don't or refuse to look at the repercussions of illegals and illegal asylum seekers and what results from this! Illegal asylum border crossing  and illegal migrants  not only go in front of the line (after twenty days they are released ,if given status) but the one's that do come through are a detriment to the other American born native Central American, Mexican's already here ,fighting for jobs and services from my Govt. 10,000 of them now and millions  more waiting !

 

Illegal immigrants and the labour market

" An examination of undocumented migration should not be confined to the migrants alone. In 1998 the US Immigration and Naturalization Service dismantled an organisation that had smuggled in some 10,000 workers. That same year, two million forged identify papers were seized in Los Angeles"

 

Georges Tapinos, Professor at Institut d'études politiques, Paris

http://oecdobserver.org/news/archivestory.php/aid/190/Illegal_immigrants_and_the_labour_market.html

Edited November 21, 2018 by riclag

[Prissana Pescud]

15 hours ago, Credo said:

You seem to have some pretty big expectations of some of the poorest people from these countries.   They have almost no voice, and if they did, they would ask for help.   But what they do have is feet and they are using them in place of a voice.   

 

Suggesting that they stay and face the danger and fight is like asking the people from California to stay and fight the fires.   Not very realistic is it?

 

The US has caused a great deal of instability in Central America.   It is now reaping what it has sown.   

 

When Russia, US, Britain and France had civil wars, it was the poorest people who fought and paid a heavy price to eventually make their countries the mostly safe and prosperous places they are now. Other countries interferred in their countries to try and effect an outcome but eventually the common people won.

Instead of expecting the wealth (often called the common wealth) of successfull countries to let hoards of uneducated and untalented literally invade and demand free food, housing, education and protection, how about they start to fix their own problems. (The people from California did not flee to another country and make outrageous demands by the way.)   

[Nyezhov]

2 hours ago, Prissana Pescud said:

When Russia, US, Britain and France had civil wars, it was the poorest people who fought and paid a heavy price to eventually make their countries the mostly safe and prosperous places they are now.

Russia isnt exactly what you would call safe and prosperous ????

Edited November 21, 2018 by Nyezhov

[Scott]

13 hours ago, riclag said:

 Yes and to take that another step.Many on the humanitarian left don't or refuse to look at the repercussions of illegals and illegal asylum seekers and what results from this! Illegal asylum border crossing  and illegal migrants  not only go in front of the line (after twenty days they are released ,if given status) but the one's that do come through are a detriment to the other American born native Central American, Mexican's already here ,fighting for jobs and services from my Govt. 10,000 of them now and millions  more waiting !

 

Illegal immigrants and the labour market

" An examination of undocumented migration should not be confined to the migrants alone. In 1998 the US Immigration and Naturalization Service dismantled an organisation that had smuggled in some 10,000 workers. That same year, two million forged identify papers were seized in Los Angeles"

 

Georges Tapinos, Professor at Institut d'études politiques, Paris

http://oecdobserver.org/news/archivestory.php/aid/190/Illegal_immigrants_and_the_labour_market.html

That's a lot of the use of illegal for things that aren't illegal, such as seeking asylum.   Keep up the trolling and face a suspension.  

 

[Prissana Pescud]

21 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

Russia isnt exactly what you would call safe and prosperous ????

That is not what Trumps friend Mr Putin is saying. I don't hear too many Russians agreeing with you. They must all love the place or they would start invading Europe as "migrants", just as all the other "migrants" from elsewhere in the world are doing.

 Russians at least rose up against the horrific conditions placed on them by the royal autocracy they were living under. The poor paid a high price for overthrowing a corrupt and brutal ruler. Other countries that are exporting refugees to greener pastures need to be held accountable and all countries have an obligation to look after your own people first.

 

[bristolboy]

On 11/21/2018 at 8:00 PM, Prissana Pescud said:

When Russia, US, Britain and France had civil wars, it was the poorest people who fought and paid a heavy price to eventually make their countries the mostly safe and prosperous places they are now. Other countries interferred in their countries to try and effect an outcome but eventually the common people won.

Instead of expecting the wealth (often called the common wealth) of successfull countries to let hoards of uneducated and untalented literally invade and demand free food, housing, education and protection, how about they start to fix their own problems. (The people from California did not flee to another country and make outrageous demands by the way.)   

You seem to be unaware of the history of central America. Several times those people did try to rise up but thanks to US interventions and the awful government the US supported these revolutions were suppressed. 

[Nyezhov]

1 hour ago, Prissana Pescud said:

That is not what Trumps friend Mr Putin is saying. I don't hear too many Russians agreeing with you. They must all love the place or they would start invading Europe as "migrants", just as all the other "migrants" from elsewhere in the world are doing.

 Russians at least rose up against the horrific conditions placed on them by the royal autocracy they were living under. The poor paid a high price for overthrowing a corrupt and brutal ruler. Other countries that are exporting refugees to greener pastures need to be held accountable and all countries have an obligation to look after your own people first.

 

OK. If you say so. Im not going to go off topic and get into the Russian Revolution.

[Patriot1066]

41 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

You seem to be unaware of the history of central America. Several times those people did try to rise up but thanks to US interventions and the awful government the US supported these revolutions were suppressed. 

Sad bit quiet accurate!

[sanemax]

41 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

You seem to be unaware of the history of central America. Several times those people did try to rise up but thanks to US interventions and the awful government the US supported these revolutions were suppressed. 

Didnt the USA support the revolutionaries ?

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.   Please stick to the topic, which isn't about everything from the labor market to AI and robots.  

 

 

[sirmud63]

On 11/19/2018 at 8:12 PM, Thakkar said:

 

[bristolboy]

12 hours ago, sanemax said:

Didnt the USA support the revolutionaries ?

Look up United Fruit.

[sanemax]

19 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Look up United Fruit.

They are a private company , NOT the U.S Government