Marriage/retirement extension seasoning and bank passbook updating issue

[OJAS]

A problem which I have frequently encountered after updating my passbook on a machine whose ribbon needs changing is that the additional transactions are subsequently overwritten, and even completely obliterated, when I next update the passbook – as illustrated perfectly in the attached scan of the latest page in my current passbook.

 

Has anything like this ever happened to anyone using the 400k/800k bank balance method during the critical seasoning period? Are banks prepared to issue statements listing transactions over the previous 2 or 3 months in such a situation? And, more importantly, are Immigration willing to accept such statements in lieu of passbooks?

 

The reason why I am asking, by the way, is that it is now looking increasingly likely that I shall have to switch to marriage extensions based on 400k in the bank from August 2019 after 9 successive retirement extensions based on 65k monthly income, thanks to the British Embassy’s decision to withdraw their income confirmation service.

 

@Jingthing - has anything like this ever happened to you, for instance?
 

Passbook.pdf

[lopburi3]

Yes statements can be obtained at small cost for passbook accounts and expect with bank signature can be used - banks are starting to issue statement only accounts here so they know what they are.

[JackThompson]

Also note that if you do not update your passbook frequently, it may skip many transactions.  A year ago, it seemed to go as far back as necessary, but not anymore (Bangkok Bank). 

[OJAS]

19 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Also note that if you do not update your passbook frequently, it may skip many transactions.  A year ago, it seemed to go as far back as necessary, but not anymore (Bangkok Bank). 

Good point, and thanks for the reminder! As you may have noted from my scan I haven't updated my passbook (which is a Bangkok Bank one) for nearly 3 months now!!

 

But in all the circumstances I'm now minded to hold off updating my passbook any further until I apply for my first bank letter next September - when I shall also ask them to update the passbook. If I recall correctly, updates go back 3 months and should, hence, cover the all-important 2-month seasoning period for marriage extensions. In the meantime I shall keep tabs on my Bangkok Bank transactions through Bualang I-Banking CSV downloads which I have started to incorporate into an Excel spreadsheet.

[JackThompson]

44 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Good point, and thanks for the reminder! As you may have noted from my scan I haven't updated my passbook (which is a Bangkok Bank one) for nearly 3 months now!!

 

But in all the circumstances I'm now minded to hold off updating my passbook any further until I apply for my first bank letter next September - when I shall also ask them to update the passbook. If I recall correctly, updates go back 3 months and should, hence, cover the all-important 2-month seasoning period for marriage extensions. In the meantime I shall keep tabs on my Bangkok Bank transactions through Bualang I-Banking CSV downloads which I have started to incorporate into an Excel spreadsheet.

I think it is only 30-days which are updated now.  I'm rarely near a branch except on my Non-O-Visa border-bounces (every 3 mo), and some foreign-xfers I'd hoped to document weren't there when I last updated mine. 

 

Hopefully, the bank can create a certified-letter showing transactions w/ balances (similar to passbook-format), to provide a documented history that immigration will accept. 

[Tanoshi]

If you can't afford to keep that 400 or 800K locked in an account throughout the year and need it for living expenses, then just top it up 2/3 months before your next extension application date, I suggest you open a 3 month Fixed account.

 

Deposit the funds 3 months prior to extension application, baring in mind you may wish to apply 30/45 prior to renewal date.

 

It shows the date of deposit. The term, the amount and the due date.

No transactions, it's a fixed amount and doesn't need updating via ATM or branch.

On the due date and after your application has been submitted, close the account and transfer to your Savings account.

[moontang]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

If you can't afford to keep that 400 or 800K locked in an account throughout the year and need it for living expenses, then just top it up 2/3 months before your next extension application date, I suggest you open a 3 month Fixed account.

 

Deposit the funds 3 months prior to extension application, baring in mind you may wish to apply 30/45 prior to renewal date.

 

It shows the date of deposit. The term, the amount and the due date.

No transactions, it's a fixed amount and doesn't need updating via ATM or branch.

On the due date and after your application has been submitted, close the account and transfer to your Savings account.

Nope..maturing FD during seasoning are problematic.

[Horatio Poke]

On 11/21/2018 at 1:48 PM, OJAS said:

Has anything like this ever happened to anyone using the 400k/800k bank balance method during the critical seasoning period? Are banks prepared to issue statements listing transactions over the previous 2 or 3 months in such a situation? And, more importantly, are Immigration willing to accept such statements in lieu of passbooks?

This has happened to me more times than I can remember, fortunately never during the critical period but often only just before it.  It's often a matter of some stress for me.  I have encountered this problem with a number of different banks.

 

I have had one 3 month statement issued by my bank, stamped and on their headed paper, a couple of years ago.  The bank staff were very awkward about issuing it.  They're pretty awkward about almost everything.  I have dealt with more helpful Thai banks in the past.  I seem to recall that I was charged 100 baht or so for it.

I offered it to immigration in lieu of a passbook photocopy and they refused it.  I did show the passbook and so was able to make a copy of it.

So, in answer to your questions I think it will all depend on how helpful your bank and the immigration officer are prepared to be on the day.

 

What I now do in order to try to circumvent the passbook problems:

I never update at automatic machines.  I always go into the bank and have a human perform the update.  Most times you will not have to wait in the queue for this.  Someone will do it on the spot for you.  It seems to be a more reliable method of doing the update, but it's not without problems.  I have had them mess up the update twice....

i) The cashier overwrote the transaction record with her own log-on till-balance details

ii) The guy inserted the book incorrectly into his printer and it spread the info all over the page - still just about readable, but a mess, definitely something that an immigration officer could raise all manner of issues about if so inclined.

But at least the person who messes up will probably try to do something to put it right...... hopefully, maybe..... in my cases they did so, but halfheartedly.

Nowadays I try to have the 800k in the bank 4 months or so before my visa application date.  I make ten or so small transactions before the 3-month-before date, never dropping below the 800k required figure,  and have them recorded in the passbook.  Then I stop using the account until the day I apply for my visa.  I use a different account at a different bank for day to day living during the 3 month seasoning period.  On the day of applying for my visa I have the passbook updated.  There should be no more than two transactions added (an interest payment, and the updated balance) which no matter how incompetent the cashier is will not overwrite all ten of my previous transactions.  So far this system is working OK.  It's a bit pedantic but achieves the required outcome.

Good luck!

[Tanoshi]

4 hours ago, moontang said:

Nope..maturing FD during seasoning are problematic.

Well it won't mature during seasoning if your on a marriage extension.

 

Even on a 3 month fixed term and retirement extension after 3 months it just reverts to 0.5% until you close the account.

[moontang]

12 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Well it won't mature during seasoning if your on a marriage extension.

 

Even on a 3 month fixed term and retirement extension after 3 months it just reverts to 0.5% until you close the account.

But it is a rollover, and the continuity is broken.  Caused a problem in CM.  FD matures and gous into a savings at the same bank...not good, or even maturing and rolling into a new term...you want to chase paper for an extra two days, if lucky, be my guest, you are warned.

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, moontang said:

But it is a rollover, and the continuity is broken.  Caused a problem in CM.  FD matures and gous into a savings at the same bank...not good, or even maturing and rolling into a new term...you want to chase paper for an extra two days, if lucky, be my guest, you are warned.

Bangkok bank, Fixed term account at maturity reverts to 0.5% until closed or renewed.

If you renew for the same term, you now keep the same account number, no break in continuity.

 

The OP stated he was in BKB, not interested in other banks.

I've been doing it for 3 years, same account number, no break, just renew the term to get 1.5%.

[moontang]

You have no guarantee it will renew at 1.5, even though it has lingered there since BBL tried to compete as more people sought actual returns.  "Should be ok," great way to approach Immigration.

Edited November 23, 2018 by moontang

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, moontang said:

You have no guarantee it will renew at 1.5, even though it has lingered there since BBL tried to compete as more people sought actual returns.

I never stated it would be guaranteed at 1.5%, but it's a damn site better than 0.5% in a Savings account.

 

4 hours ago, moontang said:

"Should be ok," great way to approach Immigration.

Again, I never stated 'should be ok', I know it's ok.

[moontang]

22 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I never stated it would be guaranteed at 1.5%, but it's a damn site better than 0.5% in a Savings account.

 

Again, I never stated 'should be ok', I know it's ok.

But you are giving people advice that is less than fool proof.  Ever here of KISS?  Even if there is a 5% chance of them requiring more docs, as happened in CM, why risk it.  You cannot state with 100% certainty that a maturing FD, during seasoning, won't be problematic.

[Tanoshi]

8 hours ago, moontang said:

But you are giving people advice that is less than fool proof.  Ever here of KISS?  Even if there is a 5% chance of them requiring more docs, as happened in CM, why risk it.  You cannot state with 100% certainty that a maturing FD, during seasoning, won't be problematic.

Perhaps you don't understand how a Fixed term account works.

If I opened a 3 month term account and deposited 400K on 1st June, the interest at the going rate would be due to be paid on 1st September. From 1st September, the account now reverts to a basic 0.5% interest rate.

The account remains active until such time as you physically go in the branch and either close the account, or renew for another fixed term. There is absolutely no risk. No debit card.

 

On your second point, I have read of some IO's being confused and requesting proof of spending funds in Thailand. I always take my Savings account book, which holds funds regularly used for living expenses just in case, but have never been asked for any additional proof.

Providing the funds are immediately accessible if required, then a Savings account, Fixed term account, or Foreign currency account are all accepted by Immigration. Is it a hardship to take along any other accounts you hold, just in case.

 

You can deposit that 400K in a Savings account, but if during the 2/3 month seasoning period you inadvertently drop below 400K for even 1 day, then your application is at risk. Why take chances.

Keep the 400 - 800K separate from expenses for the seasoning period, and earn more interest, making your money work for you.

[moontang]

My BBL fixed book show on the day of maturity, it being renewed for one year at the new, current rate.  Even when I went in that day, to avoid a rollover scam, which was already done, but I just cancelled that, but created a mess of entries.  Now, if you set it up at opening to go to savings at maturity, that would be different, but possible, but by default, and what they push is rollover at noon promotion rate.  I have a BBL FD Book showing a five month rolling into a one year, and me cancelling on the same date, but still lots of extra entries.  And usually, they do not ask you.  I would also be very careful about taking the interest monthly, as that could make your account worth less than face value.

[Tanoshi]

20 minutes ago, moontang said:

Now, if you set it up at opening to go to savings at maturity, that would be different, but possible, but by default, and what they push is rollover at noon promotion rate. 

You don't set it up as going to Savings at maturity, it automatically reverts to 0.5% at maturity date.

It will remain at 0.5% until such time as you close, or renew for another fixed term at the % rate on offer.

A new fixed term is now rolled over using the same account number, so there is no break in account continuity.

 

[jacko45k]

40 minutes ago, moontang said:

My BBL fixed book show on the day of maturity, it being renewed for one year at the new, current rate.  Even when I went in that day, to avoid a rollover scam, which was already done, but I just cancelled that, but created a mess of entries.  Now, if you set it up at opening to go to savings at maturity, that would be different, but possible, but by default, and what they push is rollover at noon promotion rate.  I have a BBL FD Book showing a five month rolling into a one year, and me cancelling on the same date, but still lots of extra entries.  And usually, they do not ask you.  I would also be very careful about taking the interest monthly, as that could make your account worth less than face value.

My 7 month BBL FD also appears to have automatically rolled over into another 7 month term at the same rate and not some lesser rate shorter term as I was expecting. I seem to recall this term was only available to Thais according to the English spiel but they opened me one anyhow.

Edited November 24, 2018 by jacko45k

[moontang]

8 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

My 7 month BBL FD also appears to have automatically rolled over into another 7 month term at the same rate and not some lesser rate shorter term as I was expecting. I seem to recall this term was only available to Thais according to the English spiel but they opened me one anyhow.

They are wrong more than half the time on this "for Thai peoples," crap.  And in your case, I would not want the renewal entry during seasoning.

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, moontang said:

They are wrong more than half the time on this "for Thai peoples," crap.  And in your case, I would not want the renewal entry during seasoning.

Likely use my  savings account which I have kept above 800k  long enough,

[moontang]

40 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Likely use my  savings account which I have kept above 800k  long enough,

I am using MTD Savings for my first one at a new office, but FD were fine in CM, except for the friend who had to waste an extra 12 hours running around, because he did what I advised not to do.  Only getting 1.3 on MTD, and on e I am more established at this office, I will probably do a ladder of 4 x 200k...with 6, 12, 18, 24 month tenors, and replace each one with a 24, when each matures.  The value seems to be in the middle of the curve, lately.

[Jeffrey346]

BKK Bank charged me B300 for a 1 year certified print out.

[alanrchase]

On 11/22/2018 at 4:33 PM, JackThompson said:

I think it is only 30-days which are updated now.  I'm rarely near a branch except on my Non-O-Visa border-bounces (every 3 mo), and some foreign-xfers I'd hoped to document weren't there when I last updated mine. 

 

Hopefully, the bank can create a certified-letter showing transactions w/ balances (similar to passbook-format), to provide a documented history that immigration will accept. 

I updated my Bangkok Bank book earlier this month and it only went back to the 1st of this month.

[sometimewoodworker]

On 11/21/2018 at 1:48 PM, OJAS said:

Are banks prepared to issue statements listing transactions over the previous 2 or 3 months in such a situation? And, more importantly, are Immigration willing to accept such statements in lieu of passbooks?

Yes they are, the photo has been edited to exclude personal details.

 

 

It was done automatically by my bank and increased the fee from 100 to 200 Baht.

 

no immigration did not accept it in lieu of a copy of the passbook but as well as a copy of the passbook. They wanted/accepted both.

 

FWIW the period covered by the bank printout was significantly greater than the bank book, the IO did not ask for the old bank book to be copied.

 

the bank book had overprinting as you show.

Edited November 24, 2018 by sometimewoodworker

[skatewash]

 Why I prefer my Mee Tae Dai account at Krungsri Bank:  Just a regular savings account so I don't have to track when it matures, rolls over, or plays dead.  It just sits there paying currently 1.3% interest compounded daily paid monthly.  It does not trigger automatic withholding of 15% interest like all fixed term accounts do.  Never have to file a Thai income tax return to get back the withheld interest because none is withheld.

One "feature" which at first sounds like a significant limitation but actually it's really not.  You only get two free withdrawals per month, thereafter you must pay 50 baht fee per withdrawal.  What this tends to mean is that I have very few transactions in the account's passbook.  Most months it's just one or two withdrawals (usually 30,000 baht from an ATM) and the interest earned entry.  The result of all this is a very streamlined passbook to show immigration, making it exceedingly easy and fast for the Immigration Officer to ascertain that the account has not dropped below 800,000 baht during the three-month seasoning period.  

Phuket Immigration requires a bank statement (stamped by the bank) as well as a bank letter for the retirement extension.  I am charged 100 baht for each of these by Krungsri.

When I do withdraw from the MTD account most of it goes into my day-to-day bank account at another bank (which has a considerably lower interest rate).  If asked (but haven't been to date) I could show this other passbook as evidence of how I'm paying my day-to-day expenses.  As this other account is at Bangkok Bank I use their unique method (which unfortunately is going away in April of 2019) to transfer via ACH from my US bank via Bangkok Bank's NY Branch to my local branch of Bangkok Bank for a nominal fee.  I do the transfer to top off my MTD account about once a year so my foreign transaction fees are very minimal (one-time basically).

I also try to update my passbooks after each of these large transactions and at least once or twice a month.  If you do not update your passbooks often enough you run the risk of having a consolidated entry (instead of getting each individual entry printed in the passbook, only a summary entry will appear that hides a lot of transactions within a single transaction).  The problem with a consolidated entry occurring during the seasoning period is that it could hide a drop below the minimum required balance (800,000 baht). 

If you update the passbook often you shouldn't have this problem.  I usually use the machine update rather than a counter update for the passbook.  But I have experienced the same problem as the OP (faint printing, causing a subsequent update to overprint existing entries in the passbook).  When I notice this (faint printing from an update) I try to remember to take the passbook to the counter the next time as they seem to have a better chance at avoiding the overprinting problems.

Edited November 24, 2018 by skatewash

[lopburi3]

As I have mentioned passbooks are no longer required for savings accounts in Thailand.  They have been offering statement type accounts for some time now.  So some people would not even have any passbook to show immigration.

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Save-And-Invest/Save/Statement-Savings-Account

[skatewash]

14 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

As I have mentioned passbooks are no longer required for savings accounts in Thailand.  They have been offering statement type accounts for some time now.  So some people would not even have any passbook to show immigration.

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Save-And-Invest/Save/Statement-Savings-Account

Question withdrawn as expanding the Transaction Tab at the above link answered all my questions ????

Interesting.  How do you get the monthly statement?  Is it available by email as a PDF?  Is it mailed to you via the post?  The link you gave suggests that one can obtain it from an ATM.  Is one obtained from an ATM the size of the regular printed receipt and does it suffer from the same fading ink problem as normal receipts or is it printed out in some other way?

Doesn't sound like a bad idea, just would be interested in the details of how this works.  What do you have to show the bank when you make a counter withdrawal as you won't have a passbook?  Do they use your ATM card or lookup your account based on your passport?

Edited November 24, 2018 by skatewash
Dug a little deeper at the link.

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, skatewash said:

How do you get the monthly statement?

From the webpage. I assume the mini statement at an ATM would be the same as the standard slip you get.

Request statements via the following channels:

• A statement will be issued and sent to your provided address every 3 months
• Request previous statements at any branch of Bangkok Bank
• Request a mini-statement of the previous 7 transactions at Bangkok Bank ATMs
• Bualuang Phone Service, call 1333
• Bualuang iBanking Service (check and print previous statements of up to 6 months)

[Speedhump]

Come on, 100 Baht for a 12 month  bank statement, rubber stamped by your bank. Just do it. My bank book has never updated in a machine for 2 years either. So what? 

[Speedhump]

Slightly off-topic, I believe that THB 800k is actually supposed to be the minimum balance in your bank account for 6 months before and for several months (3?) AFTER your visa renewal. I know its not enforced, but I believe this is the law. Anyone else know about this? Maybe it's how it used to be, but I read it recently.