Extreme Brexit could be worse than financial crisis for UK: BoE

[vinny41]

34 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

If people sincerely believe that Brexit is the best future for this country, why would they boycott another referendum and so risk losing that?

 

What is far more likely is that many people who voted Leave last time, having seen the actual future consequences of Brexit or realised their reasons for voting Leave actually have noting to do with the EU, will change their minds and so vote to remain.

 

That is why ardent Brexiteers are so afraid of giving the people the, to quote @nontabury, 'Democratic' final choice; they fear losing.

 

Even Farage was last year in favour of another referendum; until he realised his side would probably lose!

Farage's call for second Brexit vote greeted with glee by remainers

“Of course I don’t want one, we won a referendum and that should have been that. But I do not trust the sheer dishonesty of our political class,” he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/11/nigel-farage-backs-fresh-brexit-referendum-to-kill-off-issue

Farage is not in Goverment he not a MP his opinion has the same value as anyone else no more no less or should we listen to Tony Blair here 

 

Blair: a no vote means no

Tony Blair today suggested that he would not seek another referendum on the EU constitution if it was rejected by the British people.
Under repeated questioning from reporters on whether the poll would be rerun if the answer came back negative, Mr Blair responded: "If the British people vote no, they vote no. You can't then start bringing it back until they vote yes.

Today he said if Britain voted no he would have to go back to the European council and discuss the way forward.

The PM said: "This is an issue which it is time for the British people to decide and let them have their say."

He stressed: "If the British people vote no in this referendum, that is their verdict. That is absolutely clear."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...2/eu.politics3

 

Tony Blair said yesterday that he would not call an immediate second referendum on Europe if the British people throw out the proposed EU constitution in the vote expected next year."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...pe-560931.html

 

[LucysDad]

27 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

In which case, why are Brexiteers so afraid of another vote if they believe they will win?

 

Why are you incensed by the EU's treatment of the UK?

 

Are you incensed because, like many Brexiteers, you want to keep all the advantages of EU membership only to find that, unsurprisingly, the EU have said that we can't leave the club and expect to retain the advantages of membership?

 

 

 

None of the above.

 

Incensed that the Eu have acted rudely, disrespectfully and not in a way that I would have expected from European neighbours.

 

Unfortunately, they have reinforced my reasons for voting to leave - and have caused remainers  to say that they would now vote remain because of that treatment. Not my words - words of remain voters that I have had conversations with. 

[LucysDad]

15 minutes ago, rixalex said:

 

Because you're not losing something if you aren't actually genuinely being offered it.

If politicians backtrack on their promise to carry out the will of the people from the 2016 vote, what reason would a leave voter have to think they won't backtrack again? So what's the point in voting?


Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

 

Also remoaners like him only have "what if..." arguments left.

 

They seem to have an inherent trait of not accepting "what is".

[LucysDad]

7 minutes ago, bomber said:

britman is another Brit thinking the EU and its 26 members are going to go down the toilet because the UK is leaving,talk about stupidity,i wonder how far his 40bt for his mighty pound is stretching these days ???? not far iam sure

 

 

You think it about money ????....... ????

 

 

It is a fact that the EU has less chance of surviving without the UK than it does with it...

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, bomber said:

Britman is another Brit thinking the EU and its 26 members are going to go down the toilet because the UK is leaving,

I think the EU is going down the toilet no matter what.

It's out of money, many of the countries have huge unemployment problems, and it's German masters are under attack from Muslim invaders.

IMHO Britain is the most stable country in the whole of the EU, the pound should be going up and the Euro should be crashing at the thought of us leaving.

[LucysDad]

34 minutes ago, damascase said:

‘......the UK’s treatment by the EU’: keep putting blame on the EU. Is the EU stopping you from leaving? 

 

 

 

They are not bl00dy helping......... that is for sure.

[LucysDad]

24 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

Yes I’ve noticed this trend. Allthough I don’t put all the blame on the E.u Bureaucrats. T.May and her remain supporting parliament, must also take some credit for many Brixiteers now demanding a no deal exit.

  

 

 

Fair point.

 

Whilst the unelected Eurocrats are the target of my frustration, we haven't helped ourselves..... at all.... 

[damascase]

15 minutes ago, LucysDad said:

 

 

 

They are not bl00dy helping......... that is for sure.

You need help to jump off the cliff?

[7by7]

57 minutes ago, nontabury said:

That the people’s vote is sovereign. It’s called Democracy, the alternative is :- 

So rather than a representative Parliamentary democracy, you would prefer a referendum on every single piece of legislation?

 

We'd never stop voting!

 

If we don't like the government, then we have the opportunity to change it every five years or less.

[7by7]

1 hour ago, damascase said:

‘......the UK’s treatment by the EU’: keep putting blame on the EU. Is the EU stopping you from leaving? 

No, of course it isn't.

 

What has incensed so many Brexiteers is that they want to the UK to dictate the terms of our future relationship to the EU and the EU to simply roll over and do as we say. Of course, the EU wont do that and instead have said 'You're the ones who want to leave. Accept this deal, or there'll be no deal.'

 

A simple analogy is if I decided I wanted to leave a gym and stop paying my subscription, but still be allowed to turn up whenever I like and use the equipment for free!

 

 

[7by7]

1 hour ago, rixalex said:

 

Because you're not losing something if you aren't actually genuinely being offered it.

If politicians backtrack on their promise to carry out the will of the people from the 2016 vote, what reason would a leave voter have to think they won't backtrack again? So what's the point in voting?


Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Except the politicians would be saying "OK, you said that you wanted to leave, we can leave with this deal, no deal or, if you want, change our minds and not leave at all."

 

Your argument can equally be used to abolish all elections! 

 

"The will of the people decided who would be the majority party and so form a government at the last election, so if we have another election we'd be going against the will of the people!"

 

 

[evadgib]

 

[7by7]

1 hour ago, rixalex said:

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Are you incensed because, like many Brexiteers, you want to keep all the advantages of EU membership only to find that, unsurprisingly, the EU have said that we can't leave the club and expect to retain the advantages of membership?

 

And once again, speaking on behalf of people you so clearly do not understand nor represent. Why not just stick to speaking for those you do?





Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Do you not understand what a question mark means? (There's another one!)

 

More likely, dodging the question yet again; a typical and oft used Brexiteer tactic when faced with the difficult questions you don't have an answer for!

[evadgib]

 

[evadgib]

<>

Edited January 5, 2019 by evadgib

[7by7]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

<snip>

is not in Goverment he not a MP his opinion has the same value as anyone else no more no less

 

He is still an MEP, and will be until Brexit when he, like all other British MEPs, accepts his golden handshake and MEP pension (and who do you think will be paying for that? Wont be the EU!)

 

He is also someone who has spent his entire political life since 1996  campaigning for the UK to leave the EU.

 

So, having first backed the call for another referendum why did he change his mind? Simple; he can see that public opinion in the UK is swinging more and more towards Remain as the consequences of leaving become more and more apparent.

 

 

[7by7]

1 hour ago, LucysDad said:

None of the above.

 

Incensed that the Eu have acted rudely, disrespectfully and not in a way that I would have expected from European neighbours.

In what way?

 

Because they didn't roll over and immediately give us everything we wanted?

1 hour ago, LucysDad said:

 

 

Unfortunately, they have reinforced my reasons for voting to leave - and have caused remainers  to say that they would now vote remain because of that treatment. Not my words - words of remain voters that I have had conversations with. 

Why 'Unfortunately?' Were you having second thoughts? Do you now regret voting leave?

 

The truth is, maybe not for you but for many, is as I said above:

23 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

What has incensed so many Brexiteers is that they want to the UK to dictate the terms of our future relationship to the EU and the EU to simply roll over and do as we say. Of course, the EU wont do that and instead have said 'You're the ones who want to leave. Accept this deal, or there'll be no deal.'

 

A simple analogy is if I decided I wanted to leave a gym and stop paying my subscription, but still be allowed to turn up whenever I like and use the equipment for free!

That is obvious from so many posts from Brexiteers here and elsewhere and from conversations I have had with Brexiteers.

[7by7]

1 hour ago, LucysDad said:

 

 

You think it about money ????....... ????

 

 

It is a fact that the EU has less chance of surviving without the UK than it does with it...

 Yet more Brexiteer arrogance!

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately... Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!

 

A few honest men are better than numbers

The State, in choosing men to serve it, takes no notice of their opinions; if they be willing faithfully to serve it – that satisfies. I advised you formerly to bear with men of different minds from yourself:

 

 

Spare us Cromwell please

[vinny41]

22 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

He is still an MEP, and will be until Brexit when he, like all other British MEPs, accepts his golden handshake and MEP pension (and who do you think will be paying for that? Wont be the EU!)

 

He is also someone who has spent his entire political life since 1996  campaigning for the UK to leave the EU.

 

So, having first backed the call for another referendum why did he change his mind? Simple; he can see that public opinion in the UK is swinging more and more towards Remain as the consequences of leaving become more and more apparent.

 

 

This is just supposition from your part unless you have the ability to read Nigel mind which I very much doubt you have

[anon676545345]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

In which case, why are Brexiteers so afraid of another vote if they believe they will win?

 

Why are you incensed by the EU's treatment of the UK?

 

Are you incensed because, like many Brexiteers, you want to keep all the advantages of EU membership only to find that, unsurprisingly, the EU have said that we can't leave the club and expect to retain the advantages of membership?

 

 

Brexiters aren't afraid of another vote 23rd of June 2016 was the 2nd referendum, the first being in 1973 and I for one am in favour of a third referendum once we've left the EU say in 5 - 10 years time when the effects of Brexit are fully known. Since we haven't actually left yet non of the positives nor negatives have taken effect yet so there's nothing to vote upon. 

 

Unless of course you've got the mentality of a spoiled child who didn't get their own way and want us to keep voting until you get the result you want, or you'll have a massive internet tantrum, stamp your little feet, declare the entire democratic experiment a failure and demand we give feudalism another whirl.

[vinny41]

Just get on with it: Two-thirds of Brexit voters want to leave the EU and don’t care how

TWO-thirds of those who voted Leave in the referendum two years ago are not bothered about the details of Brexit – just as long as the UK gets out of the EU.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1022586/brexit-news-get-on-with-it-eu-poll-survey-jacob-rees-mogg

[LucysDad]

21 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Yet more Brexiteer arrogance!

 

I have to say that I am disappointed.

 

I thought that someone of your quality (at least where immigration matters etc are concerned) would be beyong trolling.

 

 

BIG disappointment.

[evadgib]

 

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, Chartist said:

 

Brexiters aren't afraid of another vote 23rd of June 2016 was the 2nd referendum, the first being in 1973 and I for one am in favour of a third referendum once we've left the EU say in 5 - 10 years time when the effects of Brexit are fully known. Since we haven't actually left yet non of the positives nor negatives have taken effect yet so there's nothing to vote upon. 

 

Unless of course you've got the mentality of a spoiled child who didn't get their own way and want us to keep voting until you get the result you want, or you'll have a massive internet tantrum, stamp your little feet, declare the entire democratic experiment a failure and demand we give feudalism another whirl.

Sorry to say that it is YOU who do not understand 

 

The "first" referendum was for ratification

 

The "second" was advisory; to gauge public opinion

 

IMO parliament should now have the backbone to decide and then call a 

 

"Third" referendum to ratify

 

How can any sane person argue with that? 

 

Dont tell me!

[vinny41]

22 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

In what way?

 

Because they didn't roll over and immediately give us everything we wanted?

Why 'Unfortunately?' Were you having second thoughts? Do you now regret voting leave?

 

The truth is, maybe not for you but for many, is as I said above:

That is obvious from so many posts from Brexiteers here and elsewhere and from conversations I have had with Brexiteers.

I think you will find its the remainers not brexiteers that want to keep all the advantages of EU membership hence the uptake of Irish/German/French/and other EU countries new passport applications from remainers The Majority of leavers that I have spoken to with would have preferred if the Uk Goverment had  started working on a planned exit from Friday 24th June 2016, I know some that want to leave the very next day but most people understand that would have been impossible without major  disruption

[bristolboy]

8 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Just get on with it: Two-thirds of Brexit voters want to leave the EU and don’t care how

TWO-thirds of those who voted Leave in the referendum two years ago are not bothered about the details of Brexit – just as long as the UK gets out of the EU.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1022586/brexit-news-get-on-with-it-eu-poll-survey-jacob-rees-mogg

The poll you cited is ancient history. Here's a link to the results of a rather more recent poll:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/20/polls-stay-eu-yougov-brexit-peoples-vote

[evadgib]

6 minutes ago, LucysDad said:

 

I have to say that I am disappointed.

 

I thought that someone of your quality (at least where immigration matters etc are concerned) would be beyong trolling.

 

 

BIG disappointment.

Debate is no longer possible as all too often the poster gets it instead of the content of the post. Humour and banter are perfectly acceptable but only if both sides apply them fairly. This is like turning up at a veggie convention dressed as a master of foxhounds!

Edited January 5, 2019 by evadgib

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Sorry to say that it is YOU who do not understand 

 

The "first" referendum was for ratification

 

The "second" was advisory; to gauge public opinion

 

IMO parliament should now have the backbone to decide and then call a 

 

"Third" referendum to ratify

 

How can any sane person argue with that? 

 

Dont tell me!

Both the 1st referendum and the 2nd referendum were advisory and both Goverments at the time stated it was the people choice and they would respect the outcome and implement the people decision end of 

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, evadgib said:

 

And what % of our exports go to countries with which we have a trade deal as a direct result of being an EU member?

 

We're not tabloid readers!